Why don't we get awesome raids anymore?!

[veemon_ro]

Gief something like this
but like...a whole kingdom

[chad3d]

It had to be big... there needed to be room for 40 people.

[veemon_ro]

It had to be big... there needed to be room for 40 people.

Pssst. Nax is small too so is bwl
Zg is 20 man and its huge
Ssc is also huge.

You don't have to actually make instances huge for players to feel they're inside something big. Just make them walk on walkways and to the left and right you can see huge scopes of landscape in the background while underneeth you theres even more catacombes and tunels.

[Moar Pew Pew]

The actual mechanics for raids like AQ are usually quite boring; people mistake tedious for epic. :

As far as cool/interesting yet still difficult mechanics go, I'd say TBC is the best. 40 people doesn't mean more epic, it meas more difficult to put together.

Oh, and as for Ulduar being "outside", you do know that plenty of places have open ceilings, right? Org, for one, and I believe parts of AQ also.

Go do some hard mode Yogg and then complain about it not feeling epic.

[veemon_ro]

I'm talking about the epicness of runing through some ancient halls with breath taking scenary to wherever you look.
The emotion of actually beeing in an ancient underground kingdom where no one set foot before.

Aq wasn't the best instance ever, and it might of been tedious I agree. How ever now they know how to make instances fun, so an ajzol nerub would of been awesome.

[Moar Pew Pew]

I'm talking about the epicness of runing through some ancient halls with breath taking scenary to wherever you look.
The emotion of actually beeing in an ancient underground kingdom where no one set foot before.

On the flip side, consider Ulduar; you are in the Terrace of the Creators. You are in one of the three places where Azeroth was designed, where they imprisoned an Old God, leaving a messenger that could bring the downfall of the whole world. The raid immediately begins with you having to use salvaged siege weapons because mortals are not strong enough to combat the awesome power of it's initial defenses, and you are literally busting down the doors.

Even the teleporters aren't a big deal; you have to walk there at least once, so you see everything. Just because you don't have to see it eleven times in one night doesn't make it less epic.

Honestly, people just nostalgia too much.

[veemon_ro]

On the flip side, consider Ulduar; you are in the Terrace of the Creators. You are in one of the three places where Azeroth was designed, where they imprisoned an Old God, leaving a messenger that could bring the downfall of the whole world. The raid immediately begins with you having to use salvaged siege weapons because mortals are not strong enough to combat the awesome power of it's initial defenses, and you are literally busting down the doors.

Even the teleporters aren't a big deal; you have to walk there at least once, so you see everything. Just because you don't have to see it eleven times in one night doesn't make it less epic.

Honestly, people just nostalgia too much.

Not really, no one said ulduar is not epic.
The train to mimiron
The shatered hallway
The first time you free the titans and you go down and see yog saron's prison wrecked.

I do agree that ulduar is epic, kinda sad that its the only epic raid so far

[Unionoob]

well its just normal for human to think past was better then current. But about epic raids think man people expected about Ulduar lot more.. like it will be HUGE zone underground since when you fly around Ulduar you don't see ground behind there you can't understand how did they made such landscape for first 4 bosses while there is nathing but sea. then from XT till other bosses there is portal but would be cooler if there would be portal AND option to walk by huge walkway underground till Kolo or concuil..

and who said "do Yogg HM and then talk about epicness" I have done Yogg HM and its just meh.. nathing more then just meh.. nathing epic dunno I just think killing Big dragon with an fun enounter or bugs is more fun then an clam old god.. which doesn't feel as epic as C'Thun does.. I still sometime do AQ 40m at lvl 80 and dunno I just feel C'Thun even now epic.. since he is old god in Huge room and his eye is HUGE.. dunno but sometime size is important.

[Akellacow]

sometime size is important.

Indeed! ;D

[Deleted]

Honestly, people just nostalgia too much.

This. Exactly.

And not only that, but most of the people who complain, only heard about how epic the old world instances/raids were. Only a handful of such a crowd was there, slaying c'Thun or downing the Twins inside AQ.

[KandyCane]

Ulduar is my favourite raid so far(although I never tried full Blackwing Lair and up, or Sunwell before expansions hit).

pre-TBC had hour-long corpse runs, which made the raids less epic(although it was worth it to kill Ragnaros).
The Burning Crusade had fun boss fights, but most of the trash was pretty meh.

Naxxramas was revamped from the level 60 version, therefore it was less epic than most had hoped. Then we've got 3 1-2 boss raids(and I quite like Obsidian Sanctum), so obviously not a lot of people will call them epic when there's barely anything to do.

Then we've got Ulduar, which has got fast corpse runs, is enormous(yay for teleporters), lots of fun and challenging bosses, as well as awesome trash. It's got everything I want from a raid.

So now that we've got the Colosseum, people expect it to be filled with lots of crazy monsters that are completely out of control... no, the Crusade wouldn't put them there intentionally. The picture at the top of this thread is of Anub'Arak too, so I'd say that's pretty epic.

But really, there's been 2 new raids with more than 2 bosses in them so far. We're still missing Gundrak(although that probably won't happen) and Icecrown Citadel.

If Icecrown won't be the epic raid you're looking for, then you won't get it

[Moar Pew Pew]

Not really, no one said ulduar is not epic.

I do agree that ulduar is epic, kinda sad that its the only epic raid so far

It's one of three of the major WotLK Ulduar raids, one of which is a Vanilla remake. So, to say we don;t get them anymore is just stupid. Malygos, while short, was pretty damn epic, but with one boss you have to expect it.

Naxx, not epic
Ulduar, epic
ToC, not epic
Icecrown, definately going to be epic.

Blizz admited that ToC was just a "filler" raid, and to show the war developing before we take on the Lich King. Naxx was from Vanilla, so it had it's limitations. The other two, though, have been or will be amazing; I definately would not take this to mean we don't get epic raids anymore.

[Unionoob]

Actually to me MC and BWL were epic, but looking back..it was epic because it was so new to do it with so many ppl and wiping on mobs that were as big as King Kong. So in that way..also Onyxia was epic in her little lair.

this..

its true.. those were our first raids in fresh game thats why they felt epic.. but at other hand they were done with first guilds and ppl at preBC were much friendlyer and thats other reason why it felt epic because everyone was having fun and enjoying game.. so thast why there was screaming in Vent, cheering and all.. oposite to now its just "who kill boss first race" or "who gets epix first race" same as AV changed to just honor grind and race same all PvE bosses changed to race.. and gear grind.. nathing more.

[Amantisia]

non of you watched blizzcon directv ?

Far as I can recall and saw on screens and preview video, Uldum instances will have this epic feel once again ^^ The size of being in there wass HUGE!!! AQ Style

so wass watching Icecrown ^^

[veemon_ro]

Nax at lvl 80 was not epic at all.
First of all the bosses and mobs are so weak you don't get the feeling that you're battling the scourge and arthas's right hand.
You more likely get the feeling that you're killing off some random skeletons.
The design of the place is of what instances used to look like 5 years ago.
Just because an instance was epic back then doesn't mean it will be epic now. Same as ulduar probably won't be epic in the next 5 years as graphics advances and players expectations of what an instance should look like will raise as well.

I also don't consider malygos to be epic. You fight him on a circle with a black background around.
While the mechanic of fighting on dragons its fun, the whole phase 3 is not.
Do a 112 rotation and just run around in circle and pop a shield.

This is not a fight worthy of a dragon aspect, one of the most powerfull beeings of azeroth. Nor is the background, music or arena epic.

And yes the live feed from blizzcon indeed shows some epic raids that will come in cataclysm and i cant wait

[Culnar]

Ulduar is epic.

First of all you start the raid trying to break into Ulduar.

Being intercepted by thousand of defenders while you fight your way through them in order to reach the gates only to find that a greater danger lurks there is epic.

Walking in the vast halls where Azeroth designed, fighting the creations of the Gods is epic!

Not being able to distinguish reality from the twisted mind games of Yogg Saron as you embrace madness while you are getting closer and closer to him, is epic (and terrifying).

Rating a part of the game as epic or not, judging it from the gameplay is wrong in my opinion.

Eowyn killed the Witch King with one blow, it was her fate. If you put this in game terms you will see that this is not even a group quest! but it is epic. (skip the movie and read the book if you haven't done it already)

[dr2022]

Actually to me MC and BWL were epic, but looking back..it was epic because it was so new to do it with so many ppl and wiping on mobs that were as big as King Kong. So in that way..also Onyxia was epic in her little lair.

BT had a bit of an epic feeling too, from a design point..but SSC and TK as well as SWP felt not epic.

ssc and TK and SWP not epic?!?!! .... well you felt that not me coz i totally disagre

[veemon_ro]

Obviously you won't get 100% of people agreeing whats epic or whats not. How ever some instances such as swp and bt are widely agreed by the comunity of being epic.

I don't think i ever heared a post saying bt sucks or swp is a horible instance.
I did see loads upon loads saying nax at lvl 80 was horible tho.

[Mikki]

FIND THIS STRANGE.....I have sofar considered many things Epic.

The Malygos encounter!. Falling onto the Dragons for Phase 3 for the first time was disorientated and Epic.

The first time Kologan(?) popped up in your face and you MT walked off the end to suck his toes was pretty Epic.

Doing the various dream states and Brain room on Yogg is pretty dam Epic. That fight is underestimated and PRetty dam Epic IMO. So is the mechanics for Thorim, Fraya & Hodir. AND OMG GOING TO MIMIRON for the first time was dam bloody EPIC.

Yes ToC is a let down and to easy but hey. I think Heroic Faction Champions will be a fun fight

Mikki

[xebtria]

Naxx, not epic
Ulduar, epic
ToC, not epic
Icecrown, definately going to be epic

Naxx is epic. only because it doesn't feel that anymore because it's a beginner instance for 15 people less than the original doesn't un-make it epic. And naxx 40 was the most epic instance I've ever been in. First time sapphiron pull. nuff. said.

ulduar agree.

toc - well - it's kinda epic if you let your mind accept the fact, that both the leaders of the horde and the leaders of the alliance are watching you and if you still have the believe, that the heroic versions of the bosses are actually becoming epic ^_^. The place where you actually fight isn't really epic, ofc.

IC... well... you actually were inside this that you can say it's going to be epic? you wouldn't came along with the imagination that blizzard possibly could fail at IC, would you? I save my optionion for when it's released, at least on the PTR. of course, my and all other's expectation to IC are extremely high and we all would be extremely disappointed if Blizzard fails ... but ... never say no before you have seen it final