Holy Pvp Healing 3.2.2. Team effort to improve Holy Tree.

[lookia]

If you are using Holy Shock only when you are going for a kill, you are doing less dmg than a prot. So your point is wrong anyway. Av shield + silence + stun > 3k shock.

omg fail, ... Im not going to tell you every possible situation and how you would manage your holy shocks it depends on settups and situations.. Basicly you have the possibility to play aggressivly with holy shocks which also gives you free flash healz which gives you more time to dps again.. Not only pressing av shield and let your partner do the rest.. And when did holy palas loose their stun.. you must understand that all dmg is important , Exor holy shock judge shield of rightoussness... All very important.. Im just saying if holy is played right you can put more pressure on a target by yourself than a prot pala can .. av shield and exor alone just wont be enough to for exampel dmg a warrior down to 50% while your partner is keeping a drood busy

[zcks]

Ehh personally I'd love it if they changed Infusion of Light back to the old version where it made your flash of light instant, took 1.5 seconds off your holy light & then added or makes your next exorcism instant. Considering exorcism gets a decent amount of its power from AP and in holy it doesn't do much damage this would finally give holy speced paladins some way to do low (but higher than what they have now) amounts of damage. If you think about it every other healing class in the game has some damage dealing ranged spell they can spam & holy doesn't. Whatever the case they really need to solve allot of the problems with paladins, sadly that wont be done till next expansion.

[Raiss]

omg fail, ... Im not going to tell you every possible situation and how you would manage your holy shocks it depends on settups and situations.. Basicly you have the possibility to play aggressivly with holy shocks which also gives you free flash healz which gives you more time to dps again.. Not only pressing av shield and let your partner do the rest.. And when did holy palas loose their stun.. you must understand that all dmg is important , Exor holy shock judge shield of rightoussness... All very important.. Im just saying if holy is played right you can put more pressure on a target by yourself than a prot pala can .. av shield and exor alone just wont be enough to for exampel dmg a warrior down to 50% while your partner is keeping a drood busy

Exo, SotR, HotR are stronger as prot (+10% dmg talent). AV Shield is stronger than Holy Shock. Holy judg is stronger than prot one, though (but not that much). It's fun how you say that only holy have base-line skills that protection actually have them with a improved talent, lol.

Infusion of Light is RNG. Relying in RNG is bad for arenas, period. You can never go offensive expecting a 40% rate instant heal, or you have 60% to lose. If you are going offensive you must be sure that you can land a flash of light after, or that your partner won't die until the next holy shock.

And what the holy fuck? My partner (a dps) is keeping a druid busy, while I am killing a warrior with 50% hp (16k Hp if the warrior is half decent). Considering that the warrior have shield wall, spell reflect, intervine and fear and regeneration, you would take more than 40seconds to kill him, while he is interrupting your exo cast and decreasing your spell power by half.
Am I the only one that thinks something is wrong with this strat? Let your DPS do DPS and you can try some controll as prot.

Of course holy is good at arenas, just look at blizzcon and MLG. But it happens that we are only burst healers, we and want more. But, if you are a Holy and you a saying that you have more offensive power than a prot paladin, please prove it, do not just say "OMG FAIL"

[lookia]

Exo, SotR, HotR are stronger as prot (+10% dmg talent). AV Shield is stronger than Holy Shock. Holy judg is stronger than prot one, though (but not that much). It's fun how you say that only holy have base-line skills that protection actually have them with a improved talent, lol.

Infusion of Light is RNG. Relying in RNG is bad for arenas, period. You can never go offensive expecting a 40% rate instant heal, or you have 60% to lose. If you are going offensive you must be sure that you can land a flash of light after, or that your partner won't die until the next holy shock.

And what the holy fuck? My partner (a dps) is keeping a druid busy, while I am killing a warrior with 50% hp (16k Hp if the warrior is half decent). Considering that the warrior have shield wall, spell reflect, intervine and fear and regeneration, you would take more than 40seconds to kill him, while he is interrupting your exo cast and decreasing your spell power by half.
Am I the only one that thinks something is wrong with this strat? Let your DPS do DPS and you can try some controll as prot.

Of course holy is good at arenas, just look at blizzcon and MLG. But it happens that we are only burst healers, we and want more. But, if you are a Holy and you a saying that you have more offensive power than a prot paladin, please prove it, do not just say "OMG FAIL"

Im not killing a warrior with 50% hp... thats not what i ment/wrote.. I said dps him down to 50%.. which is easily done as holy becouse no1 and then i seriously mean no1 expects holy palas to do any dmg. A warrior is not going to use spell reflect at 100-70% when he only have one holy pala attacking him.

Please dont come here and tell me that Av shield with a 45 sek cd can put out more pressure than 3-5k holy shocks every 5 sek.... Thats just bullshit. But you are correct when it comes to prot pala beeing the safe choise, but its also the easy choise. You need a lot more cordination to play 2v2 as holy and it works very good for me.

Its a reason i got 850 duels won as holy and 100 lost( i dont bubble in duels). I know how to play holy aggresivly and idd say i do a lot more dmg than other healers too.. I would really love to show you how i burst down full furious warriors and dk's in like 30sek but i dont really care about your opinions. It just annoyed me that you all whine about the prot pala nerf and how you cant play holy, because you clearly cant

[Raiss]

Im not killing a warrior with 50% hp... thats not what i ment/wrote.. I said dps him down to 50%.. which is easily done as holy becouse no1 and then i seriously mean no1 expects holy palas to do any dmg. A warrior is not going to use spell reflect at 100-70% when he only have one holy pala attacking him.

Please dont come here and tell me that Av shield with a 45 sek cd can put out more pressure than 3-5k holy shocks every 5 sek.... Thats just bullshit. But you are correct when it comes to prot pala beeing the safe choise, but its also the easy choise. You need a lot more cordination to play 2v2 as holy and it works very good for me.

Its a reason i got 850 duels won as holy and 100 lost( i dont bubble in duels). I know how to play holy aggresivly and idd say i do a lot more dmg than other healers too.. I would really love to show you how i burst down full furious warriors and dk's in like 30sek but i dont really care about your opinions. It just annoyed me that you all whine about the prot pala nerf and how you cant play holy, because you clearly cant

AV shield is a 30 sec cooldown skill. And, if I want to dps a warrior, I will hardly use AV shield, when I can easy hit him with shields and hammers. AV shield has a huge mana cost and it should be used wisely.

And about duels: omg duels. Everyone Hail Duel Gladiator Lookie! If you can't down a warrior in a duel, you are really bad, I must agree. Poor warriors, they do suck at 1v1. But, if a furious geared one is dieing in less than a minute to a healers, he seriously needs to learn to play.

But spell reflecting holy shock could be a good idea.

Shield on, shield slam (dispell). Spell Reflect holy shock, paladin won't have infusion of light. Flash of Light -> Shield Bash, interrupt. Equip the 2h, mortal strike, wait till the next flash, overpower, bladestorm. The paladin have MS + -50% spell power. Now the paladin needs to go defensive and the warrior don't have to worry about holy shocks anymore. If the holy paladin doesn't shock him when reflect is on, he will be happy to stack 5 sunder armors and slam dispell while he waits.

[lookia]

AV shield is a 30 sec cooldown skill. And, if I want to dps a warrior, I will hardly use AV shield, when I can easy hit him with shields and hammers. AV shield has a huge mana cost and it should be used wisely.

And about duels: omg duels. Everyone Hail Duel Gladiator Lookie! If you can't down a warrior in a duel, you are really bad, I must agree. Poor warriors, they do suck at 1v1. But, if a furious geared one is dieing in less than a minute to a healers, he seriously needs to learn to play.

But spell reflecting holy shock could be a good idea.

Shield on, shield slam (dispell). Spell Reflect holy shock, paladin won't have infusion of light. Flash of Light -> Shield Bash, interrupt. Equip the 2h, mortal strike, wait till the next flash, overpower, bladestorm. The paladin have MS + -50% spell power. Now the paladin needs to go defensive and the warrior don't have to worry about holy shocks anymore. If the holy paladin doesn't shock him when reflect is on, he will be happy to stack 5 sunder armors and slam dispell while he waits.

Learn to fake cast.
Learn to play a real spec.
Go cry about the nerf.

Prot Pala = Easy mode
Holy = hard mode

Enough said.

[Raiss]

Learn to fake cast.
Learn to play a real spec.
Go cry about the nerf.

Prot Pala = Easy mode
Holy = hard mode

Enough said.

Sorry, enough wasn't said. Short sentences with a period at the end may look cool, but it doesn't make it true, or more important.

No arguments = "omg you fail/faceroll", all over again. You clearly don't understand about your class (missed almost all cooldowns), or about the game. They same way you say "learn to fakecast", a warrior would say "learn to not waste interrupts on fake casts". You are just hoping that your legendary playerskill will be enough to win, and you do not think that the enemy can have knowledge to react in time.

I love when deep holy paladin say that Prot/holy , a spec that you must need to jukecast, since we have no instant cast, is easy mode. Last time I checked holy, they was just running around a pillar and hoping theirs partner would get a kill, maybe helping him with 2 or 3k dmg and freedom (lol). You lack from controll, from offensive skill, you are just a cheer leader that (trys to) keep everyone alive. You do not need to worry about overhealing because of beacon, you can stay far away so you don't have to actually worry about LoSing.

Nobody needs to cry about the nerf, the spec will still be viable with double healing, no need to worry. It just shows how you do not understand about the spec, again. You say "just annoyed me that you all whine about the prot pala nerf", I dare you to find a quote from me, saying that the nerf was unnecessary.

I'm still waiting for a video of you killing a 2200+ warrior in 30 secs without using bubble, by the way.

[dazline]

no way around it holy is gimp. a plate healing class thats only tactic is pillar humping kinda seems abit messed up agree?

heres some changes i would like to see to the holy tree.

1: the talent that gives 10% of your intel as spellpower, this needs to be, 10% of intel as spellpower and 15-20% of your resiliance as spellpower ( or maybe 10% of your stam) this would help holy survive those big dps teams, cause it clearly cant now. and it wouldnt affect pve pallys much at all.

2: infusion of light needs to have its flash of light effect stay the same. but it needs to make your next holy light cost 50% mana, be an instant cast BUT be unable to crit. (kinda like holy priests talent)

3: since pallys have always been the "tank healers" why is it that priest and shaman does have a 10% physical damage reduc to target when u crit heal them, and pallys dont? i say when holy shock crits your target takes 10% less damage.

4: sacred cleansing = joke of a talent. sacred cleansing should be - makes your palladin buffs kings/might/wis etc undespellable, as well as sacred sheild. cause right now 2/4 of the healers we encounter shut us down hardcore. and with druid warrior being a popular comp a cyclone spam is game over. cause our heals are too weak to keep our partner up threw and ms mixed with cc on us. just wont happen.

5: blessed life hahahaha no. redesigned to: doubles your resiliance for 15 seconds on a 2-3 minute cooldown.or something like instantly heals the caster for 50% of their hp and ignores all ms. on a 3 minute cd. (kinda out there but w/e sounds cool)

6: a talent deep holy tree that makes it so avenging wrath makes you immune to fear and stuns for its duration.

7: also we need some kind of offensive ability, besides one that leaves us open without holy shock. something along the like of an interupt like shamans.maybe something like a talent that makes our holy shock crits silence the target for 2 seconds and has a 20 second internal cd ( one interupt every 4 holy shocks) this would give pallys a reason to get away from that los every now and then.

8: and if we dont get some kinda of defensive reduce damage talents then. holy shock crits should increase the targets movement speed by 40% for 2 seconds. atleast help us get los fast so we dont get completely striped of our buffs and then mana burnt 4 times before we can get close to a pillar.

anyways just some ideas. obviously some of these would be too op together. but just my thoughts on what holy needs to be the better healing spec. some are abit out there, but hey a guy can dream.

oh another idea. maybe another deep holy talent that does the same effect as the blood elf arcane torrent,minus the mana return effect. now for Blood elves to have 2 of these would be op right? make it share a cool down with there racial. why not human racial and trinket do.

[lookia]

Sorry, enough wasn't said. Short sentences with a period at the end may look cool, but it doesn't make it true, or more important.

No arguments = "omg you fail/faceroll", all over again. You clearly don't understand about your class (missed almost all cooldowns), or about the game. They same way you say "learn to fakecast", a warrior would say "learn to not waste interrupts on fake casts". You are just hoping that your legendary playerskill will be enough to win, and you do not think that the enemy can have knowledge to react in time.

I love when deep holy paladin say that Prot/holy , a spec that you must need to jukecast, since we have no instant cast, is easy mode. Last time I checked holy, they was just running around a pillar and hoping theirs partner would get a kill, maybe helping him with 2 or 3k dmg and freedom (lol). You lack from controll, from offensive skill, you are just a cheer leader that (trys to) keep everyone alive. You do not need to worry about overhealing because of beacon, you can stay far away so you don't have to actually worry about LoSing.

Nobody needs to cry about the nerf, the spec will still be viable with double healing, no need to worry. It just shows how you do not understand about the spec, again. You say "just annoyed me that you all whine about the prot pala nerf", I dare you to find a quote from me, saying that the nerf was unnecessary.

I'm still waiting for a video of you killing a 2200+ warrior in 30 secs without using bubble, by the way.

Ok, Warriors the easiest class to fake cast, if you ever fail against a warrior you clearly suck. Beserking stance = interrupt, shield = interrupt. React in time:S You need to know when a rogue will use his blind and it's obvious at 2300 rating so i clearly dont play against crappy players. ( sacrifice blind)

Hoping my partner would get a kill, i play with a crappy geared affli lock in 2v2 ffs, without my dmg he wont kill at 2200+ rating.
Im mainly talking about 2v2 as holy here, i agree with you a little when it comes to 3v3 though.

[Raiss]

Ok, Warriors the easiest class to fake cast, if you ever fail against a warrior you clearly suck. Beserking stance = interrupt, shield = interrupt. React in time:S You need to know when a rogue will use his blind and it's obvious at 2300 rating so i clearly dont play against crappy players. ( sacrifice blind)

Hoping my partner would get a kill, i play with a crappy geared affli lock in 2v2 ffs, without my dmg he wont kill at 2200+ rating.
Im mainly talking about 2v2 as holy here, i agree with you a little when it comes to 3v3 though.

Warriors have fear, charge and intercept for a interrupt. Overpower is more powerful than any kick, also. If he's got a shield on, he can dispell + dmg (shield slam), or just sunder armor until you cast. If he is macro-wise, he won't have lots of problems to change fast enough for a interrupt, though.

I don't know why do you care about 2s, since it's dead and unbalanced. It can still be fun, but it will be always overpowered teams x overpowered teams. Again, protection proved to be more useful (overpowered, I'd say) at 2s, leaving almost no room for deep holys, like ret/holy did at season 5.

[Dayn9]

Two things that suck with Holy spec

1) Mana, Shaman/Lock/Priest is horrible for u when youre deepholy I think Seal of Wisdom might be a solution.

Maybe.

2) There isnt anything in holy tree that can protect us, oh yeaaaaah there is an amaaaaaaazing point that can divise by two damage taken by ANY strike, so it can trigger on deep wounds, or pet attack... useless.

We need something to be viable in arena in holy spec.

PS : I love deep holy spec, but i MUST play protheal BECAUSE of MELEE dps, who deal too much damage to my warlock, i can not keep him alive without this spec. I played with him in deep holy spec during tbc (s2/3/4 and 5 at the beginning and end of 6th season, we now play again together )

For a viable holy spec, greetz, Might.

[dazline]

if they do not want the paladin themselves to be offensive, i think they should make a talent with sort of a minion idea.

fallen hero- summons a fallen hero in the control and image of the paladin.

make the pet have a 20 second stun, how ever while the pet is out the pally cannot your hoj. also give it a small snare. put on a 3 minute cooldown.

this would make beacon much more viable in 2s as well. plus it would give holy abit of offensive damage, like other healers have. wouldnt be burst at all just some white damage.

[Fishcake]

I currently play 31/40 (Holy/Ret) in arena and honestly I don't know how I could play pure holy. With my spec I get instant exo's through art of war (and judgement crits a fair amount as I get +18% judgement crit through talents), holy shock that hits fairly hard and then of course judgement. Not 40 yards, but I can live with it being short.

All the things in ret makes this a really good spec, with extra burst, additional cc, huge huge huge mana increases with judgement of just plus utility in the form of vindication and sanctified retribution. Though honestly, should we really have to go into ret to get all these skills (some of which could be op as repentance/HoJ combo, not sharing DR either + the near infinite mana of judgements of the just).

Though saying this I love the early holy talents. Unyielding faith is amazing, reduction on fear and disorientate. Dropping something from 9s duration to a 6s duration is awesome add to this pure of heart meaning curse of tongues (which doesn't get used that often) but also rogue poisons can drop off if your partner can kite or you use hoj/repentance to take them off you for a few seconds allowing you to get a couple of 100% heals off.

Overall the holy tree is weak, especially compared to the discipline tree of the priests, but it doesn't need huge buffs to bring it up to standard. Just a few -damage talents with some additional mana regen thrown in. Maybe something like Mightlol suggested, increasing the mana returns from seal of wisdom. Though the pve implications of this would be far too hard to balance as if you can melee a boss and then have huge mana gains it leads to problems when you can't melee a boss for whatever reason.

[gobtol]

Blizzard really should add a few pvp-focused talents into deep holy. Other than Holy Shock, there's really not much a healing paladin loses by going mostly prot or ret. Instead of nerfing all the hybrid specs, they should put talents in holy that people don't want to miss out on. Blizzard should look at the talents that nobody ever specs into and make them worth picking up for PvP. Currently there's very little difference between a deep Holy PvE and PvP spec.

[Sanguissa]

Post with intelligence with any other ideas that you can come up with, that will improve opon the situation of Holy in PVP.

My only post about this that you have to absolutely consider how those changes would affect pve aswell, and how you would fix this inbalance..

[lookia]

PS : I love deep holy spec, but i MUST play protheal BECAUSE of MELEE dps, who deal too much damage to my warlock, i can not keep him alive without this spec. I played with him in deep holy spec during tbc (s2/3/4 and 5 at the beginning and end of 6th season, we now play again together )

For a viable holy spec, greetz, Might.

Bullshit, im playing deep holy with my affliction lock and his crappy gear too btw, He takes HUGE amounts of dmg but its still possible to play at 2200+++.

You just need time your cd's and hes teleport perfectly, and get 2500 sp+ etc:P

[meshugine]

my suggestion for Sacred Cleansing: Your Cleanse also heal your target 400/600/800

just like the T3 set bonus 8 =) just a bit better