Balance druid shapeshifting needs to be more interesting

[ravenmoon]

more interesting than just shifting into a form then staying in it for the rest of the fight.

When selecting a dps caster, each class must bring its flavour, and each spec must have a style. For flavor, a shaman will bring the caster totems, switching totems mangaing totems etc, the warlock would bring the a pet, the mage nuking, the priest pain, the druid shifting.

then spec specifics is the unique casting style, affliction it's DoTs, demo demon+nukes+dot combo, Destruction its nukes with a fire theme. Arcane it's mana management, Fire it's blasts/burns & AOe, Frost its control & freezes, ele shaman its shocks/bursts, shadow priests its dots and orbs, balance druids its arcane/nature balancing.

A druid is distinguished by its shapeshifting which should be more than just a skin change. for ferals we know its more than a skin change, but for balance it isn't.. this should change. I'd love to see shapeshifting become more dynamic, so people who want the caster with the druid angle of forms have something meaningful when they pic balance and employ shapeshifting.

Atm, moonkin form is no different than shadow form and shifting is not a priest mechanic. In fact metamorphosis for Demo locks is more interesting than moonkin form.

Example of Dynamic more interesting Shapeshifting for Balance Druids
1. Firstly passive buffs like crit/haste aura etc should go to the talent tree so it is available in all forms. This frees up moonkin for other things.
2. Dynamic criteria: at certain points in your rotation you do more DPS if you're in Moonkin form, and at other points you do more if you're in caster form. This immediately now demands you start shifting to maximize your output.
for e.g. when the eclipse slider is at a full lunar eclipse, casting in Moonkin form gets a damage/crit/haste buff, and when it's at a full solar eclipse casting in caster form gets the damage buff to casting

3. There's more. Every 5mins moonkin can empower (like a trinket) for x secs (say 20secs), during this period Moonkin form will cast Starfall, Starsurge, Moonfire, Starfire & Wrath in enhanced ways e.g. starfrie hits more than one target, wrath channels like arcane missiles, etc. Caster form on the other hand can lets say cast a hurricane without channelling once every 2mins.

4. Moonkin can get some unique abilities. It's weird this big feral creature has not even one melee ability, where metamorphosis does, I man moonkins are 10ft tall weighing about 3000 lbs they're a huge. Maybe maul and a sonic screech that causes a disorientate. In addition a moonkin slowfall (it's a bird afterall) and a moonkin slide (it's feather afterall)


This makes changing form interesting, dynamic during pvE combat, and also strategic, it is an element to the class that you must master, it's the druid thing. It doens't seem right that shapeshifting is so meaningless in this spec atm. When GC s9oke about ToL form changing, he did mention that having to use caster form and ToL is more interesting than just lumping in one form. Same goes for balance.

[if you like these thoughts, post em on the US Damage Dealing forums so GC can read.]

[anyaka21]

Personally, I think we should have an AE dance button. Every mob, whether pvp or pve will go into our dance for 10 seconds when we shift into boomchicken form...subject to diminishing returns


On a more serious note, I think starfall should have 2 spells associated with it. First the AE stays as is. But a 2nd one that does 10-15% more damage that would be a strictly single target spell.

[Kezic]

every boomkin needs the flute from strath u mean? also can that still be used to find rogues in stealth?

[Thedrun]

The starfall de-stealth component was removed a long time ago. I want to say at least a year ago, probably it was longer.

[Azure]

Nature form and Arcane form? Like a moonkin form like we have now and one that resembles the ones in winterspring, so you'd change as procs happened or as the new meter went from arcane to nature. I think that'd be a cool idea and would give something new to the rotation of the balance druid which is, atm, a little flat....but still fun \(^.^)/

[Blizzyb]

Nature form and Arcane form? Like a moonkin form like we have now and one that resembles the ones in winterspring, so you'd change as procs happened or as the new meter went from arcane to nature. I think that'd be a cool idea and would give something new to the rotation of the balance druid which is, atm, a little flat....but still fun \(^.^)/

Would you actually have to react or would it do it automatically? I could see the little solar or lunar eclipse above our head drop some light or beam on us as we change forms. That would be pretty sweet looking and wouldn't cost us a global cooldown.

[Nathanyel]

Since the tree form change received such positive response, let's do an even more challenging one for moonkin form?

[Nose Nuggets]

Thanks but i like the only bonus to boomkin being a paltry 100 sp and 5% to crit. that way, when im in the back of the pack in a BG i cant stay low profile and blow shit up in caster form and only need to break out SUPERHUGESPACEOWL form when melee gets close. ohterwise i get focused too quick and thats just no fun at all.

[Hellcaller]

Balance druids both pve and pvp since the beginning of 3.3 are ZOMG!and yeah i do really mean ZOMG!1-2 shotting everything that stands between you as a caster is quite nice tbh apart beeing a mage as caster or anything else...But i mostly think that blizzard needs to add a new look on the owlkin druids i mean srsly one look since Vanilla?Bit of stupid and unfair towards the balance playing people since the introducing the new look forms of the feral orianted players..also counts for the tree shape shift...

[ravenmoon]

Would you actually have to react or would it do it automatically? I could see the little solar or lunar eclipse above our head drop some light or beam on us as we change forms. That would be pretty sweet looking and wouldn't cost us a global cooldown.

yeah, you'd have to react, it's an active dynamic, not just a graphic change, but this is why it can't stop at just using caster form at a full solar eclipse and moonkin at a full lunar.

with a few extra tools available only in moonkin form you'd be shifting outside those eclipse ends to use those abilities - for e.g. if you fell down a long distance you'd switch to moonkin and use your Moon flap ability to slow fall. So these moonkin abilities are sitautional utilitise, a Moonkin slide will propely you 8 yrds forward quickly, useful for fights you have to move out of the fire for.


This is in addition to arcane/nature ends. Finally throwing in something like TOL, a 5min cooldown empowered buff will give moonkin the "superior" caster designation the form really should have. Right now, in Moonkin form you are as good as other casters, but with an empower ability and all your auras avcailable in all forms, going to moonkin form is always some sort of dps boost.

Those who like caster form more will only be switching at a Full lunar eclipse for the buff, and when their empower ability is on cooldown, aside from that the only other time would be to use the moonkin only utilities.

Empower could enhance everything from defensive balance spells like cyclone, thorns & roots to offensive ones. - but the point is it keeps in the spirit of the form and it makes shapeshifting dynamic.

[Niter]

I disagree with the OP.

First, Humanoids and Dragons are the best 'normal kinds' of casters Azeroth has to offer (that means no Old Gods, outsiders and so on). Dragons are more attuned to magic. Owlkins (Moonkins) are known by their physical prowess. They are smart, but they have never been spellcasters.

It is stupid to think that a Druid needs to shapeshift to be better at spellcasting. Unless, of course, he is taking the form of a dragon. The children of Cenarius are another debatable topic. Perhaps shifting to Dryad or Keeper Of the Grove could be nice and enhance spellcasting. Other than that, it is a very stupid idea from Blizzard to have provided Moonkin Form like they did, disregarding lore entirely.

I think Druids do not have to shapeshift. I mean, they turn into a bear for resilience, into cats for enhanced melee damage since they have very little martial training. Druids shapechange in order to access abilities their humanoid forms cannot provide. Otherwise, they would be leaving their own forms behind and that would not help with keeping the balance and being attuned to nature at all.

Moonkin Form would be amazing, IMO, if it became a PvP oriented melee CD. For a short amount of time they could do some nasty damage and have great defenses against melee. That would reflect what a Moonkin role is all about. Owlkins are good at being sturdy and strong while retaining their intelligence.

I do not think Balance Druids need to shapeshift in order to cast spells. The flavour of the Druid class is being a good hybrid (cannot heal in Moonkin form...) that protects, studies, reveres and draws powers from nature. Balance, especially in Cataclysm will have some great new things. I am not sure we should be talking about them here anymore so I will not cover that right now. Casting spells is great and being able to be an offensive spellcaster that can heal nicely, dispel curses and poisons, use CC, cast amazing AoE, summon treants, running away in cat, going bear for stuns. That's all very nice. The gameplay will be more dynamic and the spec will be even better comes Cataclysm.

In all honesty, I believe that shapeshifting is something nice and we should not enforce means to trivialise it. If we do not need such form and are perfectly capable of casting spells in our original forms, that's the form we should use. Shapeshifting just for the sake of shapeshifting is not a good thing, it feels like hurting druid lore.

[Nathanyel]

First, Humanoids and Dragons are the best 'normal kinds' of casters Azeroth has to offer (that means no Old Gods, outsiders and so on). Dragons are more attuned to magic. Owlkins (Moonkins) are known by their physical prowess. They are smart, but they have never been spellcasters.

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=7453#abilities
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=10157#abilities

http://www.wowwiki.com/Wildkin

The priests of Elune see the wildkin as imbued with the spirit and strength of the Moon Goddess, and the druids see them as guardians and protectors of nature.

While druids of course aren't magical "casters" anyway, the owlkin creature seems to be close to the Balance druid as it's a "magical" creation by Elune, taking elements from two creatures, which is close to shapeshifting.
But after all, it is still an animal, a part of nature, which is what druid idolism/shapeshifting is about. And among the (normally) peaceful animals, it is one of the few with (a tendency to) true supernatural abilities.

The point is, even if you could provide a better "caster" animal, nothing of this would give reason for a non-permanent shapeshift.

[Niter]

I disagree, Nulgar.

First, I do not think WoW has taken good care of that part of Druid lore. Therefore, I should not take in-game examples as valid. I mean, we could see Moonkins as a proof that Owlbeasts can be powerful spellcasters if we could follow that logic. I do not.

They are guardians and protectors, yes. They are magical in some sort? Aye. They are still not great spellcasters. They could use some Balance spells, some healing even, but that is it. They do not excel at it in any way. No more than a Night Elf or Tauren at the very least.

Shapeshifting IS NOT what a Druid is all about. Malfurion does not shapeshift, for instance. Broll Bearmantle has Cat, Bear, Flight Forms. Why is that? Because he use those to enter melee combat and turns into a bird when he needs to... Well, fly. Druids are attuned to Nature and so they use their knowledge to draw power from that and employ it against their foes. That is it. Be it shapeshifting or casting spells, it is all the same.

Owlkins do not provide anything Taurens and NEs do not have except for physical prowess.

If Druids were to shapechange to have better spellcasting abilities, a dragon would be a much better choice, not a Moonkin.

[Daerken]

the mage nuking

Arcane it's mana management

That sounds like AWESOME stuff don't you think? "Nuking" which is good but not the best. "Mana management"? Wut? Sounds liek funz!

[Deleted]

arguing that would should be changing into dragons is fail.

[Lyvefire]

arguing that would should be changing into dragons is fail.

Poor grammar and not providing reasons for your opinions is considerably more fail...

I actually agree with Niter on Moonkins, them casting magic more fluently never made much sense to me either, however gameplay-wise it's what they do and Blizzard is unlikely to change the role. While we're on the topic of gameplay I would be firmly behind changing Moonkin to a temporary form like Tree Form, bringing back situational shifting is something I fully support.

[Niter]

arguing that would should be changing into dragons is fail.

I did not say Druids should have a dragon form. All I said is that humanoids are perfectly capable of casting spells and the only creatures able to surpass them would be dragons, IMO. Druids turn into bears to withstand damage, into cats to cause melee damage. Balance and Restoration Druids do not need do shapechange at all. Therefore, taking the form of a dragon to increase spellcasting would make a lot more sense than anything else. Not that I would want that.

I would really love to have Moonkin Form giving us Balance Druids what Owlkins are known for: physical strength and endurance. For a short period of time we could be able to retaliate in melee range with superior defense and some nice punches. That would be some surprise especially to melee that think of us as free HK.

Other than that, I think we'll have Moonfire, Insect Swarm, Starfire, Starfall, Typhoon, Wrath, an entirely new way of using Eclipse that seems to be great, the Mushrooms, Solar Beam, Force Of Nature and whatnot. It is a lot of flavour as is and getting it all together seems great enough. Unnecessary shapeshifting to increase spellcasting sounds a bit overkill to me =]

[ELEDIN]

I agree that moonkin form doesnt make any sense for druid lore, but tree of life make a lot of sense and the reason is that when a druid heal he takes the life force of nature (trees ,plants, flowers) and give it to the people they want to heal. So tree of of life is unlimited life force (the name talk for itself) so the druid can heal without harm any flower and trees from the enviroment!!!!

Moonkins need to change not trees cause moonkins have nothing to do with the druid lore as they create on books comics and wow history!

[Niter]

@Eledin

I agree with you, but I also think Blizzard has nailed the ToL thing this time. Druids do not have to turn into trees to be better healers. They may take the form of an ancient or something, it is like them channelling the life force into themselves to perform better when it is needed. It is much better placed as a coodown than a regular form.

Balance Druids could have something like that, Moonkin Form would not be a valid choice. Perhaps Keeper Of the Grove, Dryad, emerald drake could be selected. Other than that, Moonkin would make up for a very nice melee form for Balance Druids, being able to defend and harm foes in melee range for a short period of time and have an increased Moonfire damage. That would help us immensely in situations like Marrowgar's Bone Storm. Depending on RNG a Balance Druid damage may drop dramatically there. Being able to physically hit the boss a bit would be nice. Same thing could be done in other fights that have us moving a lot and losing quite a bit of damage. I would like that twist.

[ravenmoon]

I did not say Druids should have a dragon form. All I said is that humanoids are perfectly capable of casting spells and the only creatures able to surpass them would be dragons, IMO. Druids turn into bears to withstand damage, into cats to cause melee damage. Balance and Restoration Druids do not need do shapechange at all. Therefore, taking the form of a dragon to increase spellcasting would make a lot more sense than anything else. Not that I would want that.

I would really love to have Moonkin Form giving us Balance Druids what Owlkins are known for: physical strength and endurance. For a short period of time we could be able to retaliate in melee range with superior defense and some nice punches. That would be some surprise especially to melee that think of us as free HK.

Other than that, I think we'll have Moonfire, Insect Swarm, Starfire, Starfall, Typhoon, Wrath, an entirely new way of using Eclipse that seems to be great, the Mushrooms, Solar Beam, Force Of Nature and whatnot. It is a lot of flavour as is and getting it all together seems great enough. Unnecessary shapeshifting to increase spellcasting sounds a bit overkill to me =]

I agree with some of what you say not all. First of all the new additions to the balance treee for cataclysm while great still do not come close to the depth and complexity of the likes of locks, mages, shadow priests, especially now we know the eclipse mastery will grant you a 15 sec damage boost to starfire or wrath once you reach 100 solar energy.

So basically you're spending yoru time swinging the slider to full eclipse hit 100 and you have 15 secs of high damage. This is the first iteration, which is not as interesting as i had hoped..either way the added complexity of shapeshifting I think gives the build a unique feel that symbolizes the class. Druidism is about shapeshifting afterall. The shapeshifting dynamic gives the most unique flavour of caster. Given all caster dps specs are intersting to cast, you then look to class flavours to help distinguish them and to see which one you like. the balance druid should give you the shapeshifting angle, the ele shaman the totem angle, the shadow priest is all in the casting, the warlock gives you the pet angle. in addition to their class flavours they casting style flavours, the balance druid is the arcane/nature thing with eclipse, the demo warlock is the fier/shadow thing, except that the demo warlock shadow/fire interplay makes the balance druid's look trivial. Trust me when I say that the spec could use the added complexity.


Secondly. I agree with you that moonkin form is a terrible idea for a caster form. I mean afterall wasn't it the bear form quest and a moonkin that infuses you with the feral spirit of the bear? it seems badly thought out. I like your idea of moonkin form offering some close melee abilities, similar to metamorphiosis for the warlock..that could work, but then,druids have cat/bear form if you were to ever add a pvp melee element to the balance druid, surely you'd make cat/bear more accessible rather than give them an additional form.

Caster animal forms are not really part of the law intrinsically, but then n druid lore has not been fleshed out. Tbh the dryad/keepr of the grove would have been a much better candidate for the balance druid form, as they would possess the high intelligence you would expect of a superior caster. whiles maintaining the bestial link they felt had to be present in a form. Long and short of it currently there is no reason for a moonkin form. As it is right now they're better off getting rid of the form.

However if they do keep it, they shoudl make shapeshifting a dynamic. I think it is cool that the balance tree has a form, but it needs to be much more than a compound buff with a fancy model.

Ideally:
1. I would give an alternative model to Moonkin form, the Keeper/Dryad
2. I would rename the talent to Moon Form, and change talents like Owlkin Frenzy Avianna's Fury and use more of the Demi-god's and great spirits in the balance tree.
3. I would give moon form the characterisitcs descriibed inthe orignal post. Moon form won't apply any buffs, but under a fullLunar eclipse it would receive a damage/crit/haste buff, and you can empower it once every 5 mins for about 15-20 secs where you cast spells differently. And i would give it some unique utility spells.
4. Moonkin form and Keeper/Dryad form will also have some unique utilitys, like Keeper form can charge but call it rush as it is not dependent on having a target and will just rush you forward 10 yards at charge speed., but Moonkin form can slide instead. You can only choose one or the other5