Blizzard's ladder competition design philosophy caters to a small % of

[rathok]

When it comes to PVP, things all of a sudden shift. Instead of time spent = gear, you have FOTM > Gear > Skill = gear. No amount of time spent will yield the best gear unless you can beat 50% of the players that are higher rated than you enough times to get to 2350.

TL;DR, Your formula needs a little work... more like 80% skill 10% gear 10% FOTM. Guess what? PVE is the same (or similar). Difference being there a bit more emphasis on gear and less on FOTM.

[Eroginous]

TL;DR, Your formula needs a little work... more like 80% skill 10% gear 10% FOTM. Guess what? PVE is the same (or similar). Difference being there a bit more emphasis on gear and less on FOTM.

When you are playing a 4 button class like a paladin or a DK, there is very little skill involved in being successful, trust me. Gear is the majority of your success when it comes to FOTM, not skill.

My point though is that anyone who rolls a FOTM class can get to 1500 in blues regardless of skill, and then to 1850 before they have to start showing any real skill. Where someone like me has to be skilled from square one and I need every bit of gear I can get just to keep up with these facerolling monkeys. I swear on the other side of the keyboard of all these DKs/paladins/warriors is a chimp named Rupert.

I play a mage, and while I am excellent at kiting and surviving, sooner or later my CDs run out and I get 3 shotted just like any other clothie. Half the people who kill me really suck at their class, it is just the combination of overpowered FOTM and furious gear I can't get past.

Oh yeah, warrior/priest or warrior/pally are irritating as well. Especially when you are playing mage/ret. Just not a good combo vs most comps. What is even more infuriating is the way 100% of my CC is countered by priests and paladins. And in 3.2 all healing classes will have a dispel for magic. I hate my fucking mage at this point.

Polymorph = Best healing spell in the game.
Ice Block = Best CC in the game.

You do the math.

[Beaavis]

Gear makes a bigger difference than 10% especially when skill is pretty equalized. Every top player is very anal about their gearing stats and gem choices, and we're talking about even a few points of stats in some cases. I think with melee its a bigger deal especially with weapons. When i play my rogue there is just a max dps you can do in any given opener and its a hell of a lot less if you don't have the gear, but i'm sure you know that. I sometimes still rock my shitty flow of knowledge 500 spellpower trinket proc and the difference that makes in gibbing and taking out healers is pretty huge. Its just so much more pressure if not outright gib burst from just nuking.

Thing is i don't understand why there are gear differences at all in Arena when its this supposed model of measuring pure skill in this game. But even talking about BG's or world PvP, the difference between geared and ungeared in determining the outcome is a lot more than 10% and the rest being skill. You can almost tell who is going to win the BG before the match by the disparity of gearing.

I also don't think the model of the already more skilled getting better gear is exactly competitive but i've said that before.

[Ravasha]

:

Why do so many internet idiots post on MMO Champion? Like that stuff doesn't happen, ever.

Yep, You're the idiot here.

[wadark]

Not to mention Arena players are more or less the only facet of this game that can reward you with a good chunk of money if you're good enough to win a tourney, that Blizzard funds.

To be fair, I believe the majority chunk of the prizes for these tournaments are from sponsors like logitech, alienware, razer, the list goes on. Particularly at the Blizzcon/WWI/etc. tournaments. The annual arena tournament, I'm not as sure about. Blizzard may fund that one.

[Beaavis]

To be fair, I believe the majority chunk of the prizes for these tournaments are from sponsors like logitech, alienware, razer, the list goes on. Particularly at the Blizzcon/WWI/etc. tournaments. The annual arena tournament, I'm not as sure about. Blizzard may fund that one.

I know they put in at least $75,000 for 1st place. I thought it was for Blizzcon but i might be getting it confused with another tourney. Just saying they don't put anywhere near that amount of attention and favoritism in most other aspects of their game.

[wadark]

I know they put in at least $75,000 for 1st place. I thought it was for Blizzcon but i might be getting it confused with another tourney. Just saying they don't put anywhere near that amount of attention and favoritism in most other aspects of their game.

Fair enough...but then, I figured that out when the Gladiator mount was that BADASS frostwyrm, while us loser raiders got stuck with proto-drakes (they look cool, granted, but not even in the same realm of awesome that the frostwyrm is...IMO anyway).

[tadasbladas]

I'm saying skill should get you rewarded a lot faster, but time should allow others to get there eventually. Thats reward incentive enough for competitive players to get gear.

This has been implemented since the release of WotLK. FYI we can obtain pvp gear from badges/voa. I couldn't find a partner for arena, but I hope that someday I will. But I do raid. Therefore I got hateful set with some deadly pieces when furious was released, atm i have full deadly and I hope to have full furious by the end of this arena season.

Conclusion: I get the same items,that the best pvp`ers have now, in - let`s say - 3 months. And it is really fair IMO.

Why should I get relentless if I suck at PvP? Hell, I would be pissed too if I saw some other hunter with full resilience gear and let`s say Skyforge Crossbow (it`s a bit obsolete now, but you can get the picture ).

[Tenno]

im ending this thread right now! if your the best you get the best if your not u don't it's that simple, if u want the best gear you have to put in the effort and time if your not prepared or unable to do that then you don't deserve the best gear OMFG IT'S THAT SIMPLE! like really your telling me that some nub off the street should have the same shot at a gold medal as a world class athlet?

[Beaavis]

im ending this thread right now! if your the best you get the best if your not u don't it's that simple, if u want the best gear you have to put in the effort and time if your not prepared or unable to do that then you don't deserve the best gear OMFG IT'S THAT SIMPLE! like really your telling me that some nub off the street should have the same shot at a gold medal as a world class athlet?

Thats a retarded analogy. World class athletes compete based on pure skill. They don't get advantages to competing based on already being better. If that were the case the Olympics would be more about the best running away with the competition in every field because they're not only more skilled, but will have more artificial advantages if it were like WoW.

I'm sick and tired of a lot of you fronting competition when your motivations are more anti-competitive than anything :

[Xucuroz]

I haven't followed the news on rated battlegrounds but the function i hoped it would serve, was give every player their own rating and just queue up with players of similar skill.

However from what i can see in this topic, it seems like Blizzards idea of rated battlegrounds, is just premade teams, aka slightly bigger version of arena.

[Ravasha]

TL;DR

[Warpig]

Dude, if you don't like it, just quit. I doubt Blizzard losing your 15 bucks a month will make much of a difference to them either way.

[Scionni]

I don't think you're giving Blizzard the credit they're due. It's nearly impossible to add emphasis to any aspect of this game without elitists trying to perfect said aspect. Besides, to my knowledge, premades are automatically prioritized to match with other premades.

Also, if battlegrounds are soon going to parallel arenas, it would make much more sense for these avid elitists to stick with arena matches, since arenas deal with a smaller, more managable team, thus giving them much less to worry about.

I'm positive that even after this implimentation, the player nature of battlegrounds will stay roughly the same as they've always been. There will be premades, but not as hideously elitist as most arena teams. If anything, one or two elitists will leak into your everyday battleground, and give it the direction it needs. Say what you will about "total freedom" in a casual battleground, but the epiphany of all battlegrounds is teamwork. You need to sacrifice at least some flexibility in order to function as an adequate part of a team, and that is what I consider /real/ fun.

[Eroginous]

I don't think you're giving Blizzard the credit they're due. It's nearly impossible to add emphasis to any aspect of this game without elitists trying to perfect said aspect. Besides, to my knowledge, premades are automatically prioritized to match with other premades.

Also, if battlegrounds are soon going to parallel arenas, it would make much more sense for these avid elitists to stick with arena matches, since arenas deal with a smaller, more managable team, thus giving them much less to worry about.

I'm positive that even after this implimentation, the player nature of battlegrounds will stay roughly the same as they've always been. There will be premades, but not as hideously elitist as most arena teams. If anything, one or two elitists will leak into your everyday battleground, and give it the direction it needs. Say what you will about "total freedom" in a casual battleground, but the epiphany of all battlegrounds is teamwork. You need to sacrifice at least some flexibility in order to function as an adequate part of a team, and that is what I consider /real/ fun.

It's like I was saying, it all depends on how they implement the system. If it turns into a grindfest that pairs teams based on MMR, then yes, it will become an elites only club just like arena. If they put a limit to the number of rated games you can win and get ratings from, and keep it randomized as to whom you get paired against, everyone will have a chance for the same number of rating points each week. Some will have to put a little more time in to get their wins, but the opportunity is there.

With the current arena system, it that just isn't the case.

This has been implemented since the release of WotLK. FYI we can obtain pvp gear from badges/voa. I couldn't find a partner for arena, but I hope that someday I will. But I do raid. Therefore I got hateful set with some deadly pieces when furious was released, atm i have full deadly and I hope to have full furious by the end of this arena season.

Conclusion: I get the same items,that the best pvp`ers have now, in - let`s say - 3 months. And it is really fair IMO.

Why should I get relentless if I suck at PvP? Hell, I would be pissed too if I saw some other hunter with full resilience gear and let`s say Skyforge Crossbow (it`s a bit obsolete now, but you can get the picture ).

You are talking about getting last seasons gear, and it being good enough for you to be equally competitive to players with this seasons gear. Subtract weapons, which you will never have unless you can manage the rating, you will always be at a disadvantage to players wearing the current season gear.

Last season's gear isn't competitive, especially without weapons.

VoA is just like any other form of PVE. First you have to:
- Get into a group who can down the bosses. (hard for pvpers who don't pve)
- What you want has to drop.
- You have to win the roll on it.

My point is this: How do you know how skilled you truly are in arena, if you don't have the gear that you can only get by beating teams who are already higher rated and better geared/skilled than you?

At some point gear/skill will cap for players, and they will be the ones you have to beat in your lesser gear. Unless you roll FOTM or the perfect counter comp you will most likely not be able to succeed.

[Beaavis]

And I find it a bit unfair to peg every arena player who queues for BGs as "that guy who sits in the back AFKing and bragging about it". That's just as ignorant a statement as saying "Every casual pug BG player is bad and detrimental to the team". It's not clear cut in any situation. I like the idea of Rated BGs. Will players ALWAYS use them? No, sometimes they too will want to solo queue and enter the unrated BG's and I'm sure this will be fairly common.
Why should players of a certain level (supposedly "elitist") not be allowed to play with other players of the same gear/experience level if they so choose? It's like saying it's elitist to want to progress to be with a group of like-minded and experienced people. I personally would be glad that full furious geared groups/premades are LESS likely to be in my alt's pug BG while I'm just trying to do a bit of PvP, get some honor, and getting used to my class. Those people who are more geared towards competitive team play won't be smashing pugs 100% of the time anymore, I reckon. All in all, it probably pays to just wait and see what else is said about the system by the developers.

http://wowriot.gameriot.com/blogs/Eu...Finally-Did-It

Its a generalization. Which means for the most part its true, while there are exceptions. But if you really hung out with hardcore Arena players ingame/guild'd or read/post on the same forums you'd know how true it is. There have been numerous blogs as how to afk at one point or another, and a culture of bragging about it.

Its true, and i'd swear by it.