Holy Paladin gems by color

[gash46]

Full Intellect except maybe that tear thing or a purple gem for the meta.

At the moment thanks to (in part) all this extra mana I can dominate meters and have a severe impact on the raid healing. I don't get paladins who use FoL so much, seems like a waste of a raidspot to me, spamming HL throughout most of the fight, refreshing beacon and using shock as much as possible too (mainly for the crit, FoL if on the move). I'm not saying I'm an amazing pal or anything, but I can easily go above 6.5k HPS on many fights if I'm left to do as I please, and having 28k mana (not hugely geared yet) really helps.

I'm just defending paladins as potential raid healers here thanks to stacking int. Then of course are the obvious reasons why Int is THE stat... DUH

[Maniac2]

Just found one more hardcore raider opinion, looks like he dont approve int stacking too....

http://www.ensidia.com/home/guides/h...art-1-general/

Quote:
I have to say that I started out in Ulduar with pretty much all Intellect gems for lasting as long as possible but I quickly noticed that it wasn’t really needed. I usually regem quite a lot for different fights during progression depending on what I will be needed: for example in the start of Freya Hardmode progress I used quite a few 8 Int/12 Stam gems and such. Now I tend to go for a bit of all around gemming but mostly Intellect and spell power and sometimes a bit of haste/crit if I feel that I need it. Since I have a bit of an overall gem selection I only see one viable choice in Meta gems which is the Insightful Earthsiege Diamond. It gives back a solid amount of mana every fight and it usually procs very fast when the hidden cooldown is out.

So long story short: try and balance your stats out a bit instead of stacking your gems completely, if you don’t go OOM, try and make it a general rule to regem and change some gear to increase your overall HPS.

I feel that the same general rule exists here with consumables, just like with stats and gemming: use what you will need for the specific encounter. It’s all about balancing it out between mana regen and your HPS stats.

[darthceltic]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&n=Darthceltic

all int. 1 second flash of lights. 2466sp and the pan plea that procs. 30% crit.

if your gear is high enough, u r finally to the pt of not needing sp, haste, or crit from anything but gear.

his report was from ulduar. too much mp5 (good, but too much from ulduar) if u have the hard mode content gear, u don't need anything but int.

again, for heroics and normal raids like nax, ulduar ten, gem whatever, too easy. hard mode. see above.

[Firecrest]

Just found one more hardcore raider opinion, looks like he dont approve int stacking too....

http://www.ensidia.com/home/guides/h...art-1-general/

I like how you neglected to quote the part where he said that the math doesn't actually support the way he gems and that Int stacking is necessary until you are very well geared. Good one.

Further, he is advocating gemming on a per fight basis. When you're in the number one guild in the world, this is something you do. The rest of us probably don't regem for every fight and rather try to find one gem arrangement that works best for all fights.

So yeah, you're still wrong. Nice try though.

[Nillo]

So yeah, you're still wrong a troll. Nice try though.

corrected

[darthceltic]

yeah, so when i get paid 40 k a year to play wow, and do nothing else, go right ahead and gem epic gems per fight basis. thought we are talking reality here. nobody but those guys will regem per fight basis. that's just stupid, why even bring that up as a remote thing anyone normal would do?

the question again, is what is best for "hard mode" 25 man holy pally gems. as much int as possible, 5sp in a socket will not matter at ALL.

reg 25 like ulduar, and nax, and 5 and all 10 mans, sure, gem what u want, as it's too easy to matter.

[meroko]

As a Paladin. 20 INT raid buffed gives: 360 Max Mana, 6 Spell Power, 3.6 Mp5, 0.14% Crit
I'm just gonna go ahead and bold that so you all understand what +Int even does.
But hey, I'm sure all you have your reasons for not gemming INT.

To me this was the end of the thread.

[apokteino]

@ nillo: he's right; you're wrong.

this is just a quick breakdown of how certain stats are scaling for holy paladins in 3.2. i did this pre-3.2 so that i wouldn't be confused on how to gem and gear (like a couple of you are). i decided to use 1/2 of the stat value of a pure gem in order to better determine whether or not to socket for the bonus.

yellow: 10 int ---> 12.1 int (after BoK and Divine Int)
gives me:

.092% crit (4.24 crit rating)
2.42 spell power
181.5 mana pool
~ 4.85 mp5 (from replenishment and using Divine Plea every 75 seconds)
7.26 mana per SoW tick (value obviously dependent on the encounter)

red: 12 spell power

blue: 5mp5 or 15 stamina

Those are the FACTS. There were 3 observations I made from this:

1) 10 int gives more regen than 5 mp5 does, while increasing spell power and crit.
2) Blue sockets are still horrible. Unless the socket bonus is > 7 spell power, 20 int is probably going to be the way to gem.
3) Crit/haste/mp5 socket bonuses should probably be ignored.... completely. 20 intellect is going to be much better for both throughput and longevity.

The question I asked myself to determine what stats to focus on was this: How can I best gem/gear to get the highest sustained HPS for real encounters. There are 3 options:

1) gear/gem spell power
2) gear/gem haste
3) increase mana pool/regen and cast more heals. <--- this is the option that some of you are overlooking.

For the last couple weeks I tried the first two options. I second guessed what I've been doing since WotlK came out and thought "if I can manage my mana a little better, higher heals will be more valuable." I raided with a 28-30k raid-buffed mana pool but with ~650 haste and 3000+ spell power before shammy totems. The way I "managed" my mana differently was by cutting back on the number of HLs I used and increasing my FoLs (generally I DP on CD and melee for SoW procs- that didn't change). What I found out is that while my FoLs were healing for maybe 500 HP more (HL's were closer to 750ish), my HPS tanked dramatically from when I had a 35k mana pool.

This confirmed in my mind that casting ~12 slightly smaller HLs per minute totally trumps casting ~8 slightly larger HLs per minute and a whole lot of FoLs. Not only that, but rolling out that many HLs also is much much more effective for keeping my beaconed tank up.

Basically what I'm saying is this: you will get much better returns if you gem/gear for intellect. Intellect greatly increases your throughput because it allows you to cast more HLs longer. It does much more for your throughput than spell power does. As a side note- haste is definitely important stat too; one that is probably undervalued by a lot of paladins. Every piece of gear you have on (short of trinkets) should have haste on it (yes... I realize 3 pieces of my gear don't and trust me, I'm working on getting that fixed). If you're in a raiding guild and have access to all the gear, you should at least have 700-800 haste imo. Yes, I am aware haste soft caps at 689, but you cast HLs not FoLs, right? After all, that's why you gem intellect.

[Azyoulike]

This confirmed in my mind that casting ~12 slightly smaller HLs per minute totally trumps casting ~8 slightly larger HLs per minute and a whole lot of FoLs. Not only that, but rolling out that many HLs also is much much more effective for keeping my beaconed tank up.

This is wisdom. HL is just so good, so amazingly insanely wonderfully good, that gearing a pally to cast fewer of them is crazy. When you add in the new BoL, it's good piled on top of good with a side order of wonderful.

It's like somebody managed to make a chocolate that tastes twice as good as the normal kind but also has the dietary properties of chicken breast, spinach and oat-bran combined. Why would you want to eat less?

If you want a balanced diet roll a different class, pallies should just gorge themselves on their OP goodness!

[Inotdead]

yellow: 10 int ---> 12.1 int (after BoK and Divine Int)
gives me:

.092% crit (4.24 crit rating)
2.42 spell power
181.5 mana pool
~ 4.85 mp5 (from replenishment and using Divine Plea every 75 seconds)
7.26 mana per SoW tick (value obviously dependent on the encounter)

red: 12 spell power

blue: 5mp5 or 15 stamina

Those are the FACTS.

QFT.

[apokteino]

I also wanted to add we just got 25 twins hard-mode tonight. Basically I failed so I didn't live the whole encounter, but I did want to give you the numbers of our other holy pally. In 5:56 minutes he cast 122 HLs, 9 holy shocks, and 26 FoLs. In that time he regened 136k mana. He has a 36k mana pool but was not in melee range of either boss.

He cast over 20 HLs per minute for almost 6 minutes. I didn't even realize that output was possible without meleeing SoW.

Basically... regen is god for throughput for current end game content. If I hit 40k raid buffed (which is realistic if you're full ToC BiS) maybe I'll go for a little more SP.

[Caean]

I also wanted to add we just got 25 twins hard-mode tonight. Basically I failed so I didn't live the whole encounter, but I did want to give you the numbers of our other holy pally. In 5:56 minutes he cast 122 HLs, 9 holy shocks, and 26 FoLs. In that time he regened 136k mana. He has a 36k mana pool but was not in melee range of either boss.

He cast over 20 HLs per minute for almost 6 minutes. I didn't even realize that output was possible without meleeing SoW.

Basically... regen is god for throughput for current end game content. If I hit 40k raid buffed (which is realistic if you're full ToC BiS) maybe I'll go for a little more SP.

The thing is, if you get the gear to give you that hypothetical 40k raid buffed mana, it's going to also bring a crapload of sp along for the ride. So even then I doubt you would want to add more sp at the expense of other attributes/stats, although it certainly would seem a more attractive option then.

[darthceltic]

true fax. 34.5k mana buffed, 25 man hard mode beasts, they had me in group with a priest, and 2 resto shammies. they used mana tide on cd, priest used his on cd, bear tank had macro to inervate me on cd.

i start fight healing with flash for first min, 30 seconds of fight (doing 2 tanks, hop/sac method). at that pt i was usually 4-5th effective heals in little less then 2 mins of beacon and flash spamming with 3000sp raid buffed and 1 sec flash. 2-2.4k hps. then i'd spam hl with beacon on one tank, spam the other for another min and a half. by the time p2 came, i was top at 5.4k hps effective healing. and would end fight (best try icemaul at 34% i think) with 4.5-4.9k hps.

and all p2 was beacon one, heal other, hl spam with dp on most cooldowns, mana pot, arcane tor, self loh for 9k mana.

now imagine what u can do if u were 38-40k mana buffed? that much more from dp, from replen. u'd be a god.

u won't be anything but average or below spamming flash of light. our other pally had 27k raid buffed and ended with 2-2.8 hps effective.