Impossible to beat Rogues as Blood

[ruambivalence]

i'm amused that when he got ganked, he ran to his DK lol. guessing that's his only 80.

[Fendel]

Perhaps I have yet to see this suggested or perhaps it just -needs- to go unsaid..but..I gotta say it

When you know there's a rogue, you're switching to Frost Presence, correct? [Arena situation]

[Kaeskalol]

Runewolf-

I have to say this- has it ever occurred to you to ask a rogue what pisses them off versus a Death Knight, and how to do it yourself?

A rogue without his defensive cooldowns- Blind, Vanish, Sprint, Evasion, Dismantle- is very, VERY squishy. Yet a Death Knight possesses defensive cooldowns as well, which mitigate if not negate rogue cooldowns. Unfortunately for you, you are using your cooldowns inappropriately (e.g., at the wrong time), because you are incapable of reading what the rogue is going to do in sequence. That is not something you can be taught, it is something you must learn the hard way- through trial and error. Find a rogue, duel them, and keep dueling them until you figure out what the hell to do when they do something. Ask other DKs for advice. Don't bitch on forums, or you will get flamed.

Cheap Shot/Kidney Shot- Ice-Bound Fortitude gives stun Immunity and damage reduction, scaling on Defense. Trinket Cheap Shot, pop IBF. Kidneyshot is negated.

Blind- as Blood, you have Hysteria, which is both a pro and a con. Pro, in that you can use to to break a Blind (IF you can read the rogue beforehand, and pressure them into using it), and a con in that it damages you. The deal is that you need to time it properly- when Vanish is on cooldown, and the rogue is unable to use Evasion.

Sprint- good rogues use it as a distance mechanism, in order to restealth to get another opener/escape. Don't let them. Use Death Grip if they are getting away, Chains of Ice if they are in range to use it.

Vanish- when the ability works properly, it puts a rogue into stealth. Against a DK, however, a rogue usually has to use Cloak of Shadows first, and THEN Vanish. And since stealth will break on even a single point of damage (barring falling damage when glyphed), you have a little something called Blood Boil. That one ability, used after a rogue Vanishes, will knock them out of stealth.

Dismantle- OK, as Blood, you're boned. At this point, you kite as best you can. Face the rogue at all times (again, if you can). Pity you're not Frost, and don't use a weapon chain/ disarm reduction runeforge.

Evasion- Use Icy Touch like mad, and dump RP into Rune Strikes/Deathcoils when a rogue pops Evasion. If you were Frost/Unholy (and smart), you'd have your Ghoul Leap and Gnaw to try to stun them, as you CANNOT DODGE while stunned.

You should be using Death Strike to heal yourself as much as you can. That is your FU.

You should be using the Heart Strike glyph. That is your melee-range snare.

If you have Dancing Rune Weapon, use it. It attacks from behind, attacks from behind can't be dodged.

Rogue defenses feel extremely RNG'y at the moment, with the whole 'Dodge-dodge-doge-SPLATDEDLOL' thingy going on. Evasion, once our defense against warriors (of any variety) is now suicide versus an Arms warrior (thanks to Unrelenting Assault, and a talented +50% critical strike chance to Overpower). That 10% chance to be hit while Cloak of Shadows is up is definitely noticeable- caster classes will complain that Cloak is Overpowered, and that it needs to be nerfed. These are not the casters stacking Spell Penetration (WHICH, AS A DK, YOU NEED TO BE DOING FOR PVP), these are the ones who are in PvE gear and rely on Curse of the Elements. Every class and their mother has a stun now- Paladins, Frost/Fire mages, Warriors, Elemental Shaman - so why are you not complaining about them? Because you can kill them without having to really think on it.

Lastly, your comment 'I do not think it is fair that a class is built around you not every being able to fight back' is completely true, and at the same time bullshit. Death Knights shit all over other classes. What about them?

Here is a spec you should be using for PvP. There is a reason why there are cookie-cutter specs out there (because they work).

[Auria]

Runewolf-

I have to say this- has it ever occurred to you to ask a rogue what pisses them off versus a Death Knight, and how to do it yourself?

A rogue without his defensive cooldowns- Blind, Vanish, Sprint, Evasion, Dismantle- is very, VERY squishy. Yet a Death Knight possesses defensive cooldowns as well, which mitigate if not negate rogue cooldowns. Unfortunately for you, you are using your cooldowns inappropriately (e.g., at the wrong time), because you are incapable of reading what the rogue is going to do in sequence. That is not something you can be taught, it is something you must learn the hard way- through trial and error. Find a rogue, duel them, and keep dueling them until you figure out what the hell to do when they do something. Ask other DKs for advice. Don't bitch on forums, or you will get flamed.

Cheap Shot/Kidney Shot- Ice-Bound Fortitude gives stun Immunity and damage reduction, scaling on Defense. Trinket Cheap Shot, pop IBF. Kidneyshot is negated.

Blind- as Blood, you have Hysteria, which is both a pro and a con. Pro, in that you can use to to break a Blind (IF you can read the rogue beforehand, and pressure them into using it), and a con in that it damages you. The deal is that you need to time it properly- when Vanish is on cooldown, and the rogue is unable to use Evasion.

Sprint- good rogues use it as a distance mechanism, in order to restealth to get another opener/escape. Don't let them. Use Death Grip if they are getting away, Chains of Ice if they are in range to use it.

Vanish- when the ability works properly, it puts a rogue into stealth. Against a DK, however, a rogue usually has to use Cloak of Shadows first, and THEN Vanish. And since stealth will break on even a single point of damage (barring falling damage when glyphed), you have a little something called Blood Boil. That one ability, used after a rogue Vanishes, will knock them out of stealth.

Dismantle- OK, as Blood, you're boned. At this point, you kite as best you can. Face the rogue at all times (again, if you can). Pity you're not Frost, and don't use a weapon chain/ disarm reduction runeforge.

Evasion- Use Icy Touch like mad, and dump RP into Rune Strikes/Deathcoils when a rogue pops Evasion. If you were Frost/Unholy (and smart), you'd have your Ghoul Leap and Gnaw to try to stun them, as you CANNOT DODGE while stunned.

You should be using Death Strike to heal yourself as much as you can. That is your FU.

You should be using the Heart Strike glyph. That is your melee-range snare.

If you have Dancing Rune Weapon, use it. It attacks from behind, attacks from behind can't be dodged.

Rogue defenses feel extremely RNG'y at the moment, with the whole 'Dodge-dodge-doge-SPLATDEDLOL' thingy going on. Evasion, once our defense against warriors (of any variety) is now suicide versus an Arms warrior (thanks to Unrelenting Assault, and a talented +50% critical strike chance to Overpower). That 10% chance to be hit while Cloak of Shadows is up is definitely noticeable- caster classes will complain that Cloak is Overpowered, and that it needs to be nerfed. These are not the casters stacking Spell Penetration (WHICH, AS A DK, YOU NEED TO BE DOING FOR PVP), these are the ones who are in PvE gear and rely on Curse of the Elements. Every class and their mother has a stun now- Paladins, Frost/Fire mages, Warriors, Elemental Shaman - so why are you not complaining about them? Because you can kill them without having to really think on it.

Lastly, your comment 'I do not think it is fair that a class is built around you not every being able to fight back' is completely true, and at the same time bullshit. Death Knights shit all over other classes. What about them?

Here is a spec you should be using for PvP. There is a reason why there are cookie-cutter specs out there (because they work).

This..

And Rune wolf :-)

For every Rogue CD we have a Counter CD as DK's
with my warlock i used to walk away from rogues so did i on my DK...
untill our Rogue CL thought me how to fight a rogue and learned me the mechanics of the rogues...
They are Pretty much piss easy!..
but.......SCREW UP ONCE against a Rogue..
Forget about a CD or an ability and he will TEAR U OPEN and RIP U APART..
and ofc rogues stun dismantle etc.. that is just theire Game play live with it please..
Rogues WONT stand a Chance without theire :

1) stealth
2) Dismantle
3) Vanish
4) Cloak
5) Prep
6) Kidney
7) Stun..

and others :-) (sorry im not a rogue and i dont know all the abilities u guys have :-) im trying here so please no flaming )
without THOSE things u can pretty much say the Rogue Class Goodbye (in PvP)
because they are Squishy 2 hits and they are dead.. (basically)

Other Classes are QQing about us because we can take so much DMG and still stand tall..
We have so much Defensive CD's that can save us..
so please dont complain about rogues its just how they play and it is how they will survive..

Thanks For reading Runewolf.

and others :-)

[rarghz]

... I consider myself a damn good PvPer...

So which DK are you on the armory? The one with agility gems in his full hateful, the one decked out in 4/8 savage saronite, one of the tanks (srsly if u lost as a tank to a rogue, quit pvp), or the one that has some ok pve gear but unfortunately doesn't even have 1 arena game played and probably has no pvp gear.

Whichever one you are - you're a terrible pvper and you're retarded. It's hilarious to see the whines some DKs come out with nowadays. Stick to the pve, champ.

[Plawsky]

If blood's not working against the rogue, switch specs. That's like the rogue complaining because he can't beat you as combat. Do you really think that there should be a spec that always wins? I guess that's why you rolled a DK.

Remember season 5? That's NOT how class balance is supposed to be - despite what you might think.

No matter how good you are, there's always going to be someone on some class who can beat you. And there's going to be another class that can beat him. And there's going to be... I hope you get where I'm going.

THAT'S what balance is.

[Oshi]

I don't agree with a lot of what Kaeskalol said, especially with regards to CS trinket -> IBF, that's just asking to get KS'd with lag or blinded after using two of your biggest survivability cooldowns (incoming Vanish -> CS -> KS -> dead). In fact, if you trinket anything other than a blind, you will lose against any decent rogue. However, that comes with two caveats:
(1) If you trinket a KS after cloak is used, with diseases and a pet attacking the rogue, he shouldn't be able to get off an effective restealth, or make full use of the blind time to regenerate KS cooldowns without wasting a potentially dangerous amount of health
(2) If you trinket a blind that isn't necessary, it was probably used as trinket bait which leaves you open to being killed in a Vanish -> CS -> KS.

I also don't agree with the spec he linked, it appears to be a Frost spec with no UA, what you really want is Unholy, in frost presence, with Bone Shield both applied *AND* off cooldown (so it can be refreshed to live through the second opener), and a rune of sword shattering. I have two decent weapons each with different runes on them, but not everyone can be that lucky, which means you either put up with a wasted rune against a good proportion of opponents, or you put up with getting thrashed by rogues (the other disarm classes are much less of a threat to DKs and you can probably still win a 1v1 even with a full duration disarm).

As to the OP, while you could have phrased this post much better, I have to concur that I doubt you will beat a rogue with blood. The only realistic way of winning agianst a well-played opponent would be getting a completely clean Mark of blood off (ie no sprint/vanish away on the rogue's behalf, and no cloak of shadows up). Without bone shield to eat full openers (and to a much lesser extent, on a pale horse to reduce the stun duration), chained evasions and two openers will cost you far too much health to win.

Incidentally, I thought they changed Hysteria to removing health rather than causing damage, preventing it from breaking cc's? (I don't pvp with blood :P)

[Runewolf]

Perhaps I have yet to see this suggested or perhaps it just -needs- to go unsaid..but..I gotta say it

When you know there's a rogue, you're switching to Frost Presence, correct? [Arena situation]

Of course I was in Frost presence and I have yet to see a decent way to stop from getting owned that a rogue doesn't have 5 ways to counter.

Of course you can say use Hysteria, then I say well then he just vanishes. Then People say use hysteria then mark blood, the Rogue still vanishes. I am still disarmed and DnD and Icy touch do garbage damage. You are never going to kill a Rogue with DnD and Icy touch. While you are doing pathetic damage you HP bar is being raped.

[Runewolf]

So which DK are you on the armory? The one with agility gems in his full hateful

Do you always lie to prove a point or are you just simply retarded?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...us&n=Sunslayer

Where do you see an Agi gems?

Whichever one you are - you're a terrible pvper and you're retarded. It's hilarious to see the whines some DKs come out with nowadays. Stick to the pve, champ.

You sound like you are really fat and angry irl? Am I close?

[-Sunchips-]

Do you always lie to prove a point or are you just simply retarded?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...us&n=Sunslayer

Where do you see an Agi gems?

Are you retarded? How did he expect to know to armory "Sunslayer" he armoried "Runewolf".

[Ak]

i particularly loled @ the comment about blizzard babysitting rogues since the end of vanilla...right now if you are any other melee class in game and losing to a rogue that frequently your doing something wrong, it isnt hard. Learn how other classes opperate rather than oh well they stun and like i fall down because apparently i have siezures and dont know what happend in that 10 seconds of stuns. Quick fact fyi, Rogues havent recieved any note worthy buffs since 3.0 i believe our last one was deadly throw missle speed increase....woot because you know i love using worthless abilities THAT MUCH FASTER than before...lol.

[NoAbloIngles]

Do you always lie to prove a point or are you just simply retarded?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...us&n=Sunslayer

Where do you see an Agi gem?

why are u wearing 2 Valorous?
str/crit gems?
Resil trinkets?
Pvp Rings? not even a Furious one
3.5k Ap Blood spec,,, lol
Glyph of rune tap?
hateful gear..

man u can be a really skilled player but ur gear/spec suck for pvp.

[Dostus]

Yes, almost impossible to beat with a blood rogue 1 on 1. On other hand it's easy win for frost. There's viable specs for pvp and sucky. This season has shown that blood atm is in second cathegory. And adjusting all specs for pvp and pve of all classes will take much more time than wow will ever exist

Generalization: Use right spec.

[Bojo69]

It sounds to me like you were fighting the best rogue in the game...

[Runewolf]

Glyph of rune tap?

Yep, heals everyone in my group for 2-3k every 30 seconds, pretty bad eh?

Generalization: Use right spec.

Guess Ill go respec fotm asap...whats fotm now anyway?

[Plawsky]

Do you always lie to prove a point or are you just simply retarded?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...us&n=Sunslayer

Where do you see an Agi gem?

He was wondering if you were the DK named Runewolf that has 2 agi gems in his full hateful.

Now that you've posted your armory, here's a warning that you're going to get flamed for having 0 arena experience. While arena is not all there is to pvp - there's a reason it's considered end game pvp. If you are such a "damn good PvPer," why do you not play arena? Maybe you consider being damn good at pvp going into BGs and facerolling the fresh 80s on your DK with full epics.

[speedymonkey]

you got out played. Its probably been said, but learn to play your class and learn to play a rogue. once you know how they work they are probably the easiet melee class to kill.

[Runewolf]

He was wondering if you were the DK named Runewolf that has 2 agi gems in his full hateful.

Now that you've posted your armory, here's a warning that you're going to get flamed for having 0 arena experience. While arena is not all there is to pvp - there's a reason it's considered end game pvp. If you are such a "damn good PvPer," why do you not play arena? Maybe you consider being damn good at pvp going into BGs and facerolling the fresh 80s on your DK with full epics.

I played Arena season 1-4 as a Hunter, I am done with Arena. Don't like it, and never have. I'm guessing I am not alone as Blizzard has "postponed" launching another arena tournament realm because it can't even fill a single server while in BC they had 3 servers. I never understood an MMO that has end game pvp in a litterbox.

Arena is dying out and most have just had their fill of it, me included.

He was wondering if you were the DK named Runewolf that has 2 agi gems in his full hateful.

Now that you've posted your armory, here's a warning that you're going to get flamed for having 0 arena

4 80s ATM, and honestly I shelved my DK about 3-4 months. I slapped together some gear and left it at that. Reason i grabbed my DK as he and my Shaman are the only 80s on the same server as my Warrior and my Shaman is in worse gear than my DK. Only my Hunter is in disgusting gear sitting at 24k health and 4300 AP and 700+ res.

If I constantly played my DK I would certainly gear him differently, so I can't argue about that.

When it comes down to it sure I havent played him in a long while cept to run his JC daily. The fact still remains a class built around so much control and damage is simply put, Bullshit and we all know it.

[NoAbloIngles]

Yep, heals everyone in my group for 2-3k every 30 seconds, pretty bad eh?

Guess Ill go respec fotm asap...whats fotm now anyway?

1- yep really bad.

2- stop the QQ if u want to play a bad pvp spec.

[nalle]

I played Arena season 1-4 as a Hunter, I am done with Arena. Don't like it, and never have. I'm guessing I am not alone as Blizzard has "postponed" launching another arena tournament realm because it can't even fill a single server while in BC they had 3 servers. I never understood an MMO that has end game pvp in a litterbox.

Arena is dying out and most have just had their fill of it, me included.

4 80s ATM, and honestly I shelved my DK about 3-4 months. I slapped together some gear and left it at that. Reason i grabbed my DK as he and my Shaman are the only 80s on the same server as my Warrior and my Shaman is in worse gear than my DK. Only my Hunter is in disgusting gear sitting at 24k health and 4300 AP and 700+ res.

If I constantly played my DK I would certainly gear him differently, so I can't argue about that.

When it comes down to it sure I havent played him in a long while cept to run his JC daily. The fact still remains a class built around so much control and damage is simply put, Bullshit and we all know it.

So if the rogue had some good pvp gear and spec but your dk (with not so good gear and spec as you have stated yourself) he shouldn't beat you?

You think of yourself as a damn good pvper, maybe the rogue was a damn good pvper aswell? If you both was equally skilled but he had better gear and spec he shouldn't beat you?

If you would have the best dk pvp spec and atleast full hatefull gear you maybe would have a chance.