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  1. #1

    The direction of the shadow priest

    It's early, so here's the warning, wall o' text inc.

    Pre-BC we were a joke, I'm fine with that there were a lot of issues handled in progress to the current day spriest.

    BC, we found ourselves being somewhat viable, at least during tier 4 where we scaled the best, then beyond that we fell behind as a dps class.

    Now as we're about halfway through WotLK, things are looking bleak once more... We started out topping the charts in naxx (lol aoe). Moved on to Ulduar, topped the charts upon entry, then slowly fell off (excluding a few fights Hodir, Vezax, Yoggy). Now in general my guild isn't running the "perfect" scenario for a spriest, and I'm fine with that, no 13% spell damage debuff, no 3% crit etc (even when we do have them, people in less gear easily out dps me, and I've spent hours on end working on increasing my dps at a dummy)... But we're starting the same decline that we found ourselves in during BC. I'm finding that even though my priest is moving up in gear, my dps in general stays about the same, maybe move about 100 or so dps up where other classes move 500 or more dps.

    This post is more than likely just going to be pushed down as QQ, my class needs buffzorz, etc. but really I've put alot of time into working as hard as possible, yet in fights like Iron Council, even with the Rune of Power, I get smoked by melee. Yeah several people are going to say L2P your class, but when if ever, excluding the aforementioned fights, does a spriest even show up on any meter? Generally I stay away from forums, hell even my guild forums I avoid, but I've been looking around and shadow as a whole is falling into the same pattern as BC. I'd love to spew ideas of how or what to fix us, but in general we're the class that's being left behind patch after patch.

    As for why spriests make it into raids still, generally to me it seems as though it's a long time friend, or a MC is needed, or even a disperse (Algalon anyone?). Taking us right down into bringing the class, not the player.

    Does anyone have a decent suggestion as to how or what we try and ask for?

    Cryssa - <Booterang> - US Nathrezim

  2. #2

    Re: The direction of the shadow priest

    i agree with u 100% m8 , atm i have a lvl80 spriest,lvl80rogue,lvl80tankadin.

    My priest is my main , ive played him since the start of tbc, i really enjoy playing him , but tbh he brings nothing to a raid atm , his gear is much better than my rogue but my rogue does better dps, so i see no reason to take my priest to any raid atm.

    i also feel as if my dps hasnt increased that much from naxx even , best i could ever do onpatch was 5.3kdps, and on fight like xt-deco (excluding heart phase) im not doing that much more, yet all my stats have gone up, i was thinking that id geared wrong and stacked to much haste (489) and not enought crit (22%) unbuffed, but it seems we are falling back into the tbc pattern of scaling worse with gear.

    So looks atm i will be tanking or dpsign with my rogue
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctadrew
    I have never used this response, but it seems perfect here...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAOxY_nHdew

  3. #3

    Re: The direction of the shadow priest

    To be perfectly honest, Shadow Priest damage isn't bed right now. Shadow Priests do well in entry level content with equal geared players simply because our spec is carried almost entirely by talents. Almost all of our talents are a flat "increase the damage of xyz spells by 5/10/15%" or an "inscrease your shadow spell damage by x%" The big difference is that a lot of casters have more talents that increase the contribution from spell power their spells get more so than shadow priests.

    Right now, our DPS isn't bad, but it's no secret that on average the lowest three DPS classes across all Ulduar Bosses between some of the worlds top guilds are Shadow Priests-> Retribution Paladins -> DPS Warriors. But this isn't by a huge margin, and so many fights in hardmode progression in ulduar are gimmicky to the point where shadow priests can do so much damage anyway that I shrug it off.

    Razorscale - Tons of AoE
    Ignis - We suck. Or at least I do, I get like 3 frames per second on that fight =(
    XT - We're okay in normal mode where we do a lot of AoE, not so much on hardmode
    Kologarn - AoE down the Rubble. Great boost.
    Iron Council - Another Single-target DPS fight where our damage sucks.
    Auriaya - Lots of AoE on the Guardian Swarm
    Hodir - You'll probably be in the top, but not higher than mages/warlocks. You'll be iffy vs. Elemental Shaman and we tend to beat Boomkins
    Thorim - They needs your mind control! Plus MCing the Add gives you more damage than if you DPSed yourself
    Freya - HOLY AOE BATMAN
    Mimiron - We do Okay because we can DoT up all three parts in phase four, plus plenty of AoE between phases
    General Vezzax - Haste is your friend. Spam that GCD-length Mindflay!
    Yogg Saron - Dot up everything, AoE in phase 3.

    So as you see, there are gimmicks in most fights that boos our damage nicely. Shadow Priests are still some of the top AoE in the game.

    But, alas, it's come to this:

    My guild sorta broke up (used to be the top on server). There's only one top horde guild of decent progression left on the server. They already have 4 shadow priests. No one else really wants a shadow priest. I'm probably one of the top geared shadow priests on server, one of the best raiders in that I rarely ever get myself killed from stupid shit (which says a lot on this server), I always come prepared, I always know the fights before we try them when new content comes out, etc, etc, etc.... but no one needs a shadow priest - and I have no money to pay for a transfer. =( I've not been raiding for over a month!

    BUT! THERE IS HOPE!

    If you go back and read up on some old Blue Posts, you'll discover that Shadow Priests have been on the "To Do" list for "things to fix" for a long time now. But somehow, we always got put on the back burner.

    Our AoE is beast, and Blizzard has finally stated "We plan to rethink the way Shadow Priests deal single-target DPS" - They know that we are lacking in single target fights and plan to fix it. A Nuke off cooldown might be nice. We don't know what all Blizz plans to change about us, but here's to hoping they do something nice. ;D

  4. #4

    Re: The direction of the shadow priest

    Quote Originally Posted by scotty
    atm i have a lvl80 spriest,lvl80rogue,lvl80tankadin.
    lol, exaxctly the same chars as me... ;D

    on a more serious note..
    In general I think that you really need to enjoy the mechanics of shadowpriests to play one.. We will probably (and shouldn't) never be on top 3 on dps if your raiders know how to play (for the exception of some fights), this can for some be very frustrating. I have myself at times become frustrated when lesser geared (and skilled?) players outdps me. It feels like that we need to put much more effort into theorycrafting, rotation etc. to reach competitive numbers than other classes. This might be true and it might be not. However, if you really put effort into it you may reach top 5, even higher at certain fights. I personally always make it into top 5 in my guild, and I have absolutely no problem (only a little) that other people can faceroll higher numbers.

    If you really really want to be the no.1 on the meters and link damage done after each fight to boost your e-peen, I recommend that you roll a warlock or another pure dps class.
    Never wrong.

  5. #5

    Re: The direction of the shadow priest

    I think it's sad when people think dps meter's are the only thing that counts about their class. I'm not going to deny it is a dominating factor but it's hardly the only factor, particularly when a skillful geared spriest doesn't prevent any raid from accomplishing the most difficult content available. In fact spriest dps has shown to be extremely high on the difficult hard mode encounters such as Mimiron and Yogg.

    My spriest is extremely fun to play, I enjoy a complex rotation that isn't so complex to be frustrating. It always keeps me occupied during a raid and analysing aspects of my class outside of a raid is equally as fun. I also enjoy extremely high survivability and I bring buffs that any raid can utilise. Sure i'm not the only one that can but at the end of the day someone has to.

    For me, skill doesnt equal dps and nor does enjoyment for that matter. If you think that topping the dps meters is somehow proof that you're in the top echelon of players I'd use that very fact to prove that you're not. What are you trying to prove with dps meters? Perhaps you should remember why it was you chose to create a priest in the first place and start measuring the class against those reasons instead of where you come on the dps charts.

  6. #6

    Re: The direction of the shadow priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Gippal
    If you really really want to be the no.1 on the meters and link damage done after each fight to boost your e-peen, I recommend that you roll a warlock or another pure dps class.
    yay i think that says it all...
    shadow priest is a hybrid class... you can enjoy healing if you want to... what warlocks, mages and rogues can't. so i'm not frustrated to be just 4th-8th in dps.
    and i agree with the other statement you made, too. i think playing warlock or mages is much more boring than it is to play a spriest. we got no iron bold rotation and you have to play smart in order to get the maximum out of you spriest.

  7. #7

    Re: The direction of the shadow priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Veyne
    A Nuke off cooldown might be nice.
    This is the last thing I and most respectable shadow priests I know would want. People play the class for the unique playstyle, giving us a spammable nuke would ruin the class for me and many others. What they need to change (in my personal opinion) is Mind Blast, everything else (with the exception of haste scaling) is just fine. To me Mind Blast almost feels like the filler spell; it does a lot less damage than any other comparable nuke spell, it has a dodgy cooldown making it hard to have an effective cycle, it provides no useful buff or attribute (not gonna count replenishment) and the talents built around it are just bad.
    Adding a mechanic simulair to backdraft would be a nice buff to the spell, but there are a lot better sollutions out there.

    People complain about the class too much. I used to love shadowpriest.com before all the kids started showing up and complain about everything around the class, calling us broken and asking stupid basic questions without even using the search button.

  8. #8

    Re: The direction of the shadow priest

    This isn't me complaining as several seem to have taken it...

    I feel as though my spot in a 25 man raid is a wasted slot, any other class in comparable gear (http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...rezim&n=Cryssa) will easily pull more dps, and have more benefit to other classes than the priest. When we had replenishment and old VE to only spriest, we brought something to raids, I didn't mind being the 10th on dps then, I was providing something needed to the rest of the guild. VE is the lone thing other than DPS that we have, a very minor survivability buff, at the cost of DPS.

    My issue is based in ulduar, I'm roughly the 6th geared player in my guild, and yet my dps, and therefore listed performance is extremely lackluster for the gear. When someone in naxx 25 gear can walk into a raid I'm in and out dps me (go ahead and say I don't know how to play, check the algalon down) I think it's utterly bullshit and I'm tired of feeling as though I'm in the raid because I'm a friend, rather than a useful member of a team...

    The hybrid argument is a moot point, frequently I have 2 warriors top of the charts, followed by rogues... Warriors excluded from this hybrid lack of dps? Feral druid dps isn't that far behind a rogues (not to mention 5% crit, Sorry never had a decent boomkin really to compare). Ret fits right into the melee fine with it's synergy, and does quite decent dps if you have a good player(Also brings buffs to the table). DK's don't even need to start on that one, they're good dps and can be quite capable tanks (not to mention blood CDs). Shadow on the other hand is constantly falling behind, yes we shine on certain fights, I won't deny that, but where are we headed, bottom of the usefulness list.

    When you're monitoring a guild, and the only way you have to measure it is a meter, in this case DPS, is it fair to kick someone for not doing high enough dps in raid encounters? Then when they say "that priest is doing less dps than me" and reply, oh but that's a shadow priest, they don't scale well, how does that work? Alright off the abstract, the only times we do significant damage (not even dps) is when we have multiple targets (2-3 = dots 4+ = mind sear) which is generally not a boss fight. The problem is more that we need to be viable in a raid spot, not the top dps, as of now... Fort, Spirit, Shadow Prot (usually covered by a disc/holy priest), VE, occasional MC... done.

    Edit: Forgot to address dps meters not mattering.

    Now, what does a shadow priest bring to a raid?


  9. #9

    Re: The direction of the shadow priest

    Quote Originally Posted by cast
    I used to love shadowpriest.com before all the kids started showing up and complain about everything around the class, calling us broken and asking stupid basic questions without even using the search button.
    this

    and "gear check me" and "wws check me"...hell they even had to create a bitch and moan tab.

    as for the op, yes I wish we scaled better and did more dps, sure it was interesting when we were mana batteries, but largely I still really like the playstyle of a spriest after all these years

  10. #10

    Re: The direction of the shadow priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Brotherman
    this

    and "gear check me" and "wws check me"...hell they even had to create a bitch and moan tab.

    as for the op, yes I wish we scaled better and did more dps, sure it was interesting when we were mana batteries, but largely I still really like the playstyle of a spriest after all these years
    At least being a fulltime mana battery justified non-scaling DPS. :
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  11. #11

    Re: The direction of the shadow priest

    Shadowpriests are terrible single target dps, always have been, and more than likely, always will be. Just have to understand that there are fights were you will shine, and there are fights were you will not. For example Yogg, Freya and Vezax are really good fights and you can perform well here, fights like XT, ignis and IC (unless your padding) are really bad for you.

    P.s Spriests are not anything special on mim hard mode, from what i can see the only classes we beat are hunters and shammys. http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/c.../war/7/0/3/320
    Priest - http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Barthilas&n=Weenalol
    Druid - http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Barthilas&n=Weenah
    DK - http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Jubei%27Thos&n=Weenalol

  12. #12

    Re: The direction of the shadow priest

    Saying things like that we "always will be" terrible single-target DPS is a bit silly, considering that you have no idea what changes are going to be put in place in the next expansion. In fact the only thing we know is that mandatory talents are being removed to get rid of the bloat and we are getting a nuke without a cooldown.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  13. #13

    Re: The direction of the shadow priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Weena
    Shadowpriests are terrible single target dps, always have been, and more than likely, always will be. Just have to understand that there are fights were you will shine, and there are fights were you will not.
    That's the EXACT problem, we're viable for 3-4 fights in a 14 boss dungeon, that's seems entirely reasonable... wait... does it?

  14. #14

    Re: The direction of the shadow priest

    Please give feedback on these suggestions, just thinking about possible ways to help us.

    First off, we suck at scaling, it needs fixed. The new nuke will help with haste scaling, but it needs to go further than that.

    We're getting to the point where MB is losing to MF in damage done, which should not happen. So I suggest to buff at least MB, if not all spells.

    VE needs to be either a self buff and heal off all shadow damage done to target(so it doesn't become OP in AoE situations) or heal off all shadow damage(including AoE) but lowers your total damage by x%.

  15. #15

    Re: The direction of the shadow priest

    This may sound like a bad idea, but I've always thought they should just combine VE with DP. I know it has nothing to do with all the scaling and buffs everyone else is talking about, but I've never really been a numbers person, just a idea man.

  16. #16

    Re: The direction of the shadow priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Menotyou
    This may sound like a bad idea, but I've always thought they should just combine VE with DP. I know it has nothing to do with all the scaling and buffs everyone else is talking about, but I've never really been a numbers person, just a idea man.
    Like affliction lock's Sihpon Life was combined with Corruption?

  17. #17

    Re: The direction of the shadow priest

    Make Spriest dedicated class and we will get buffz. Blizz pays more attention to holy/disc and forgetting about shadow. :-\

  18. #18

    Re: The direction of the shadow priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo_mat
    Make Spriest dedicated class and we will get buffz. Blizz pays more attention to holy/disc and forgetting about shadow. :-\
    You realize that Blizz just buffed the fuck out of Shadow in 3.2? (at least PvP wise)


  19. #19

    Re: The direction of the shadow priest

    Quote Originally Posted by Woony
    You realize that Blizz just buffed the fuck out of Shadow in 3.2? (at least PvP wise)
    Because it oh so needed a 20% weakass Mortal Strike. :
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  20. #20

    Re: The direction of the shadow priest

    Are penis-meters really that important? Shadow priest has low single-target dps, yes, but do we need that many threads about people being sad that their e-peen is much smaller than others?

    So long you kill the boss, what's the worry? To me it sounds like you at least get to raid, so be happy. I dunno about your guild, but when my guild does 10-man and 25-man we always bring at least one shadow priest.
    If I was a Blizz server technician, I'd hijack a server and use it to download porn 24/7. Guess why the instance servers always are full B]

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