poor shadow priest

[Strykzor]

Currently im at about 400ish haste 23% crit unbuffed, about 700 spirit i think, only fight i have been close to oom is yogg25, apart from that never been oom.

700spirit? are you a baddie who assumes spirit is good coz we get 10% into SP ?
I only have 400 spirit unbuffed.

Unless that person's name is Strykzor. But he's just terrible anyways.

God, will you shut up, you have no clue.
THE 1 AND ONLY REASONS SHADOW PRIESTS WERE BROUGHT TO RAIDS WAS FOR VT REGEN.
Now that has become replenishment and given to more viable classes and our other utility is redundant
Itemlevel goes up, so does hit, nobody needs hit.
Fort/Spi/Shadow Buffs are all provided by Holy/Disc Priests.
Everyone with a clue knows, for progression you bring 2 Healing Priests.
VE is a self healing spell if you even think this spell is remotely good for your group you are plain and simple BAAAAAAAAAAD
DPS Meters matter, if you think otherwise; see above

Any good raider knows their spell coefficients,
Any good spriest knows we have MUCH less scaling than other classes.
This is TBC all over again.

By the time Icecrown comes out, Spriests will be bearly above tanks on single target fights.

Edit: @ Mix
Shut up baddie, go play your 3 button class, ever done IC hardmode? easy as it is, in the early stages of ulduar u need a SS on the 1st tank.
Try some REAL hardmodes without healthstones too.

[syanid]

How about you simply quit Strykzor and get a job, you're fucking boring and dumb beyond belief. I don't even know how you can breathe with your brain capacity.

[Abandon]

Unless that person's name is Strykzor. But he's just terrible anyways.

<3

[Cerus]

As for innervate... It regens mana based on your max mana, not based on sprit or mp5... Its a free extra 30% mana to play with. Even if all it does is save you from using dispersion, thats an extra 6 secs of dps as far as I know. And yes, Yogg is a great example of a place where spriests get to shine and burn through more mana then they have.

If you play a Moonkin then Im the king of pop. Innervate does not regen based on your max mana. It restores a % of the casting Druids base mana (naked and regardless of talents) to the target. Moron.

More mana does not equal more dps it just means you won't run out as soon. You won't suddenly do 2000 more dps just because you got an innervate.

[Surfd]

If you play a Moonkin then Im the king of pop. Innervate does not regen based on your max mana. It restores a % of the casting Druids base mana (naked and regardless of talents) to the target. Moron.

More mana does not equal more dps it just means you won't run out as soon. You won't suddenly do 2000 more dps just because you got an innervate.

Cerus is correct.

Innervate USED to simply give you 400% mana regen, which was insanely OP for classes with huge amounts of spirit, which equaled huge amounts of regen, which usually equaled a full 20k mana pool before innervate ran out.

They changed it to, i believe, around 4x a druids base mana pool, which means that it now restores a flat amount of mana (somewhere around 8k mana, give or take, not sure the exact math off the top of my head.

As for running out of mana, not using dispersion increases your dps, does it not? Dotting up adds increases your dps, no? You CAN use more mana if you really push your class, unlike every other class that cant use more mana then their rotation uses.

If you really believe that you are entitled to asking someone else to give you more mana in the middle of the fight just so you can increase your personal dps by a mrginal amount, instead of using your own cooldowns to regen mana, then you are an asshat.

Thats like saying "mages could do more dps if they didn't evocate Evocate or use mana gems every time their cooldowns were up but begged for innervate intead". Well duh!. Of course they would, maybe by a tiny bit. But that isn't the point. Being wasteful with mana just to attempt to boost your dps, and relying on someone else to step in and help you with an innervate is an issue with you and your shoddy playstyle, NOT an issue with your class and the way it is designed. I mean, unless you are doing something wrong, or pushing the limits of a very hard endurance fight, it should practically be impossible for pretty much any caster class to go OOM easily.

I mean, hell, I could just tab around throwing out moonfires at 700 mana a pop per global cooldown if that would increase my dps by 100 or 200 on add fights. Of course, doing that would make me an idiot, since moonfire is a Balance druids most mana inefficient spell, and would be a huge mana drain, not to mention that in the long run, i would get more DPS out of my cooldowns by simply sticking to a more standard single target rotation even on a multi target fight. But i can always just ask a feral druid for an innervate, cause you know, innervate is there to cover for things like idiots who like to waste mana.

You want my innervate? Tough shit. That cooldown is better used to improve my own dps score, so your personal-peen meter can suck it.

[fl4shi]

Kinda hard to join a better guild as I am in best guild on my server... As for running out of mana, not using dispersion increases your dps, does it not? Dotting up adds increases your dps, no? You CAN use more mana if you really push your class, unlike every other class that cant use more mana then their rotation uses.

VE, even if it only does 100k of healing in a fight, or even 10k of actual healing, thats 1 less wild growth that needs to be tossed on your group. Sure, its nothing amazing, but its better then a big 0 healing, wich is what most dps classes bring. Even if it just does 1 tick on the entire fight on 1 player, that 1 tick can save a player from dying. Granted odds are ridiculously low, but still.

As for innervate... It regens mana based on your max mana, not based on sprit or mp5... Its a free extra 30% mana to play with. Even if all it does is save you from using dispersion, thats an extra 6 secs of dps as far as I know. And yes, Yogg is a great example of a place where spriests get to shine and burn through more mana then they have.

even with multidotting and whatever.. never went oom use dispersion/shadow fiend on cd ofc
and im always 1st for yogg

[walach]

Shadow is not fine. Fine would suggest we don't need any changes, which i dont think many would argue is the case.

Neither do i think that we're so horribly broken that we'd be subbed out. After completing TotC 25 normal for the first time tonight, i hovered anywhere from around 2nd-9th.


I would also agree that while things have changed somewhat since TBC, i would expect that we will tend to slip behind other classes later in raids, because we simply dont scale as well. One thing i would say is - why on earth does seemingly 95%+ of caster gear have freaking hit rating?? (Especially as shadow, i think we cap earlier than anyone else?) T9 is just a joke .