heroic 25 - Faction Champions - Forgotten Heroes - Black Dragonflight

[gutnbrg]

lol wtf is closetgnome

[Bartikowski]

Right click on your portrait in game. Go to the "Raid Difficulty" menu and see if that clarifies anything for you.

Why bother actually checking in-game functions when you can just be obnoxious in several "first-kill" type posts?

[volrathy]

Yeah they aren't hard modes they are heroic 25 man raids . . hard modes are getting the tribute chests at the end

[volrathy]

Right click on your portrait in game. Go to the "Raid Difficulty" menu and see if that clarifies anything for you.

I see nothing about hard mode on there at all sorry am I blind ? I can see you can set it to 10 man heroic 10 man 25 man and heroic 25 man but nothing about completing the hard modes in the 25 man heroic instance
_________________________________________________
Ah just found the hard modes they are listed in the achievement page along with all the other hard modes in the game (OS+3d/Ulduar etc)

These appear to be them

http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=3819
http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=3818
http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=3817

Also found some feats of strength to go along with these hard modes
http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=4156
http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=4078

Introduction of the Crusaders’ Tribute! Each of the Heroic mode instances has a new tribute system that will limit players on the number of attempts they get in the Coliseum each week to present a greater challenge for the most battle-hardened heroes. Additional rewards can be earned depending on the number of attempts left in the tribute run each week when the final boss is defeated.

[Melbufrahma]

lol wtf is closetgnome

an addon just like Outfitter, Item rack or the built in blizz thing

[furydeath]

11 more attempts until you no longer get hard mode loot

I see 36 in that screen shot there

[volrathy]

I see 36 in that screen shot there

after 25 attempts they no longer get the hard mode weapon chest

[Tiiesto]

To all the people misunderstanding, he said 11 left on hardmode because hardmode is having 25+ attempts left at the bare minumum. 36 (in the ss) - 11 = 25.

Sooo I hope people stop calling heroic mode hard mode when it's not, as you can clearly see why now.

[Fenixdown]

Yeah they aren't hard modes they are heroic 25 man raids . . hard modes are getting the tribute chests at the end

On a side note, arguing whether 25 heroic is "hard modes" or not is moot. To some people it's hard modes because the encounters are rather challenging or even outright difficult. To others it's simply as it states, a heroic on a larger scale. You've been making snide comments about this the whole time, but have yet to come up with a more logical perspective other than "Blizzard doesn't call them hard modes". It's about perceptions, so both sides of the argument are correct in their own rights. Now stop being a douche about it, k?

Same goes for everyone calling him wrong. He's right in his contradiction, though going about it the wrong way. The tribute chest IS really the ultimate hard mode of the raid. However, that being said, the bosses themselves are certainly not easier than on a normal setting. So you can state that each boss is part of one large hard mode, thus making the entire raid a "hard mode" raid. However, once your 25 attempts is up, it's just a heroic mode raid. No megaloot at the end.

In any case, grats FH and I'm rooting for you guys to do well the rest of the week!

[volrathy]

So I do Heroic Nexus ? Im actually getting hard mode loot .... ....

[nort]

i rly dont understand why u ppl say the heroic versions are not the hard modes.. aspecialy you volrathy (and i'm rly sorry i have to pick on this, but ur rly an arrogant prick) who didnt even kill yogg-saron.
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/12/1790...-coliseum.html

•A more intuitive structure for harder encounters. This raid dungeon will have four different versions: 10-player, 25-player, 10-player Heroic, and 25-player Heroic, with each one using a separate lockout.
harder encounters harder hard

the tribute chest is an extra challenge which does award better loot and a mount but hard mode means a 'better' tuned encounter. you cant seriously call hard mode when u dont die. it is hard but its not mode. see wut i did thar?

seeing these bosses go down after so few tries is rly disapointing, even by a top 50 guild.

i am gona keep looking for the link where the blue says he likes that hard modes are so popular in ulduar so they decided to make them a seperate lockout in the heroic difficulty

[Wiggums]

I see nothing about hard mode on there at all sorry am I blind ? I can see you can set it to 10 man heroic 10 man 25 man and heroic 25 man but nothing about completing the hard modes in the 25 man heroic instance
_________________________________________________
Ah just found the hard modes they are listed in the achievement page along with all the other hard modes in the game (OS+3d/Ulduar etc)

These appear to be them

http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=3819
http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=3818
http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=3817

Also found some feats of strength to go along with these hard modes
http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=4156
http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=4078

Link something calling the tribute chests hard modes. Wiping less != Hard Mode. Your quote doesn't say anything about the tribute chests being called hard modes. Blizzard is apparently trying to drop the "hard mode" term from their vernacular. But the "Heroic" drops higher ilvl loot (258 vs 245), exactly like the "hard modes" from Ulduar did. Hence, most people in the community still refer to heroic as hard mode. The tribute chest is a bonus for completing all of the heroic modes (ie hard modes) with as few wipes as possible. It's not a hard mode in and of itself, because it's not a "mode" at all.

Even Zarhym indirectly implied that hard mode = heroic mode.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/19110...l-only-be.html
The OP asked about a hard mode for Ony; Zarhym replied that there was no heroic mode. That implies to me that he considers them one in the same, but that Blizzard is no longer using the term hard mode at all.

Ditto for this post: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/18983...-crusader.html

[Psykewne]

So I do Heroic Nexus ? Im actually getting hard mode loot .... ....

apparantly :P

My only frustration in this is the people moaning that the hard modes aren't hard, and that's because this isn't the hardest challenge blizzard is offering with these encounters, the tribute chests are and that's the true hard mode for the instance.

In the end it's semantics to most people and doesn't matter, it only matter when people are trying to use the semantics to pass things off as something they aren't or complain about something not worth complaining about.

Wowprogress seems to have the calssifications right, http://www.wowprogress.com/rating.tier9_10, you can see clearly they rate normal and heroic progress and then the tribute acheivements in much the same way they ranked the hard modes of ulduar.

All the while taking nothing away, form what i'm hearing from lesser guilds this new mode is offering quite a challenge so they endeavours so far seem to be worthy of note since it's certainly a big step up from the normal mode, and perhaps on par with some of the ulduar hard modes in some cases.

[Wiggums]

i am gona keep looking for the link where the blue says he likes the hard modes are so popular in ulduar so they decided to make them a seperate lockout in the heroic difficulty

This one?
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/10222...-conquest.html

[volrathy]

i rly dont understand why u ppl say the heroic versions are not the hard modes.. aspecialy you volrathy (and i'm rly sorry i have to pick on this, but ur rly an arrogant prick) who didnt even kill yogg-saron.
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/12/1790...-coliseum.html

•A more intuitive structure for harder encounters. This raid dungeon will have four different versions: 10-player, 25-player, 10-player Heroic, and 25-player Heroic, with each one using a separate lockout.
harder encounters harder hard

the tribute chest is an extra challenge which does award better loot and a mount but hard mode means a 'better' tuned encounter. yout cant seriously call hard mode when u dont die. it is hard but its not mode. see wut i did thar?

seeing these bosses go down after so few tries is rly disapointing, even by a top 50 guild.

i am gona keep looking for the link where the blue says he likes the hard modes are so popular in ulduar so they decided to make them a seperate lockout in the heroic difficulty

LOL you left out the most important part of that post

Introduction of the Crusaders’ Tribute! Each of the Heroic mode instances has a new tribute system that will limit players on the number of attempts they get in the Coliseum each week to present a greater challenge for the most battle-hardened heroes. Additional rewards can be earned depending on the number of attempts left in the tribute run each week when the final boss is defeated.

That is the very definition of hard mode killing a boss on heroic mode is not hard mode its simply killing a boss on heroic mode

[nort]

do you even understand the meaning of the word 'mode'?
unfortunetly for all you confused ppl out there blizzard will call hard mode bosses, heroic mode from now on since thats where u find them. in the heroic difficulty.
im gona copy-paste what i said:

you cant seriously call hard mode when u dont die. it is hard but its not mode.

also: Development Team: We love hard modes and we’ve seen that they are a very popular addition to World of Warcraft. What we’re doing here is making the distinctions between the different difficulties more clear.
(this isnt rly what i was looking for tho.. there was an interview with mimiron button as example)

[Zoidie]

You don't seem to understand Volrathy. The reason there is now a distinction of 10/25 player normal/heroic is so that the hardmode's can be tuned better than including them in the normal encounter.

Think of it like this, if Ulduar had a 25 man normal and 25 man heroic version, you could do XT, in 25 man normal, only the normal way, you couldn't do Heartbreaker. Doing ulduar 25 man heroic would enable you to do it. That is the difference. Heroic mode is the hardmode of these bosses with normal being just that, normal, you'll notice there is no way to do a boss differently in normal TOTC to get better loot, unlike in ulduar.

[Fenixdown]

LOL you left out the most important part of that post

Introduction of the Crusaders’ Tribute! Each of the Heroic mode instances has a new tribute system that will limit players on the number of attempts they get in the Coliseum each week to present a greater challenge for the most battle-hardened heroes. Additional rewards can be earned depending on the number of attempts left in the tribute run each week when the final boss is defeated.

That is the very definition of hard mode killing a boss on heroic mode is not hard mode its simply killing a boss on heroic mode

Except in pointing that out, you just contradicted your own point.

After 50 attempts, you're done. That's it, game over, try again next week.

Sure you get better than the 258s if you can clear with a certain number of attempts, but you aren't getting 258s on the non-heroic mode.

Like myself and Psyk both said, it's all about perceptions. Some see the chest as the hard mode, some see the raid difficulty increase as the hard mode. Either way, the whole is still harder. By Blizzard's perceptions, the raid is harder and thus the "hard mode" raid. Also by Blizzard's development, they placed a greater challenge in that harder difficulty.

The best way to look at it? If you did Naxx 10 and got Undying, you got a title. The loot was still the same. Was that a hard mode for loot? No. Was it a hard mode for difficulty? Yes. (though obviously not on the scale of later ones, but it's the same general principal of not dying) This one gives loot but no title. The rest of the fights otherwise are still beefed up and tougher, regardless of if you are on attempt #12 or attempt #42. The difficulty doesn't tone down just because you used up your first 25 shots at it, it's still the same fights. In that right, it is a hard mode.

Personal perception in this game is like personal perception in politics or religion. You're right, I'm right, let's all just go get a beer and talk about something else that doesn't lead to an idiotic and pointless argument.

[volrathy]

Personal perception in this game is like personal perception in politics or religion. You're right, I'm right, let's all just go get a beer and talk about something else that doesn't lead to an idiotic and pointless argument.

If your from Australia . . .VB or NEW ?

[Evilution]

Hard Modes in Ulduar included changing the fights in some way... making them a little more or less like "new" encounters.
The bosses in Trial of the Crusader 25 man normal and heroic do not change the encounter, they just hit a little harder or whut?
Not been there yet, no servers up in europe. :P

Just saying, Ulduar 25 hard modes are not build in the same way as TotC hard modes, however you rank them
being "all bosses in heroic is hard mode", or just the have X nr of attempts left when killing the last boss.