heroic 25 - Faction Champions - Forgotten Heroes - Black Dragonflight

[Kampreich]

LOL you left out the most important part of that post

Introduction of the Crusaders’ Tribute! Each of the Heroic mode instances has a new tribute system that will limit players on the number of attempts they get in the Coliseum each week to present a greater challenge for the most battle-hardened heroes. Additional rewards can be earned depending on the number of attempts left in the tribute run each week when the final boss is defeated.

That is the very definition of hard mode killing a boss on heroic mode is not hard mode its simply killing a boss on heroic mode

To access ToC hardmodes, you set the raid difficulty setting to "10 Heroic" or "25 Heroic", in these heroic versions of the instance, hardmode loot drops. What you're calling hardmode loot, is actually Tribute Chest loot (tribloot).

[volrathy]

Looks like people are stuck on twins

1 Forgotten Heroes (r) Black Dragonflight 3/5 (heroic) 51.46
2 Casual (r) Scilla 3/5 (heroic) 51.45
3 Uprising (r) Aerie Peak 3/5 (heroic) 51.45

[Annoying]

Raid time ended =D

[Perishcasual]

Looks like people are stuck on twins

1 Forgotten Heroes (r) Black Dragonflight 3/5 (heroic) 51.46
2 Casual (r) Scilla 3/5 (heroic) 51.45
3 Uprising (r) Aerie Peak 3/5 (heroic) 51.45

Casual never tried twins, we stopped after faction champs.. raid time ended as well. Looking forward to doing it tomorrow!

[volrathy]

@ Casual & Uprising people - I presume - Perishcasual & Annoying ? How many attempts you guys have left still on track to get some hard mode loot ?

[Perishcasual]

@ Casual & Uprising people - I presume - Perishcasual & Annoying ? How many attempts you guys have left still on track to get some hard mode loot ?

Think we have 34 left

[nitrizzle]

Why are you so interested in arguing Volrathy?

Pretty sure your guild isn't even on the kill list for 25 toc yet :/

[Herring]

Uprising has 38 attempts left. Raid time ended for us.

[DCOblivEon]

Casual said all they got were just regular T9 trophies anyways, hopefully it's hotfixed before we go back and clear it tommorow.

[volrathy]

Casual said all they got were just regular T9 trophies anyways, hopefully it's hotfixed before we go back and clear it tommorow.

Im pretty sure the t9.5 tokens only drop from the tribute chest at the end. Thats according to the loot tables anyway.

Im speculating - the more tribute attempts you have left the more tokens you get.

< 25 = 1
> 25 = 2
50 = 3

[Annoying]

I believe its:
>45 = 4
>25 = 2
0 = 1

Not sure about 50.

[Vongimi]

Hard Modes in Ulduar included changing the fights in some way... making them a little more or less like "new" encounters.
The bosses in Trial of the Crusader 25 man normal and heroic do not change the encounter, they just hit a little harder or whut?
Not been there yet, no servers up in europe. :P

Just saying, Ulduar 25 hard modes are not build in the same way as TotC hard modes, however you rank them
being "all bosses in heroic is hard mode", or just the have X nr of attempts left when killing the last boss.

They do change the way the fight is done actually in some cases. Such as anub, permafrost doesnt respawn. Or Jarraxus, you now have to kill the portals and volcanaoes that the adds spawn out of.

[Rafy]

i rly dont understand why u ppl say the heroic versions are not the hard modes.. aspecialy you volrathy (and i'm rly sorry i have to pick on this, but ur rly an arrogant prick) who didnt even kill yogg-saron.
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/12/1790...-coliseum.html

•A more intuitive structure for harder encounters. This raid dungeon will have four different versions: 10-player, 25-player, 10-player Heroic, and 25-player Heroic, with each one using a separate lockout.
harder encounters harder hard

the tribute chest is an extra challenge which does award better loot and a mount but hard mode means a 'better' tuned encounter. you cant seriously call hard mode when u dont die. it is hard but its not mode. see wut i did thar?

seeing these bosses go down after so few tries is rly disapointing, even by a top 50 guild.

i am gona keep looking for the link where the blue says he likes that hard modes are so popular in ulduar so they decided to make them a seperate lockout in the heroic difficulty

you contradict yourself you dumb kid:

A more intuitive structure for harder encounters. This raid dungeon will have four different versions: 10-player, 25-player, 10-player Heroic, and 25-player Heroic, with each one using a separate lockout.

HEROIC FFS !!! HEROIC !
the difficulty is heroic.
IF YOU REACH the tribute chest with at least 25 attempts remaining, THEN that means you did a hard mode clear !
thus you will get a freakin' 258 or 272 ilevel loot.
got it ?
now gtfo and do some "heroic nexus" maybe you'll get hard mode loot... /sarcasm

[nort]

Kinda sux that this thread is turning into heroic = or != hard modes but i guess we will soon have 147298 threads where ppl complain that raiding is too easy and then ppl will say 'stfu, u didnt clear all content till u have a tribute to immortality achievement' coz not wiping is content, yes.

As for you, rafy... no comment
I'm gona make one last attempt tho, not for rafy, not for volrathy.
You have this instance.. ToC25 normal. yes?
You have this other instance.. ToC25 heroic. yes?
A hard mode is when the boss is harder to kill than on easy mode. yes?
Killing vezax w/o using saronite vapors for mana is harder than killing vezax with the vapors. This is a hardmode. You have to change ur strategy a bit while fighting this boss.
Killing freya by leaving the 3 elders up is harder than killing freya after killing the elders. This is another hardmode. The adds and the boss have more dmg. She also gets new abilities. You have to change ur strategy a bit while fighting this boss.

In Trial of the Grand Crusader, the boss have more hp/dmg and diferent/new abilities.
I am from europe and obviously i did not try any of the heroic bosses yet since my raid starts in7 hours. But, from what ive read:
The worms come in after 2 minutes and they dont care if u killed the magntaur or not.
You have to kill the portal and vulcanos at jarraxus or ull get more adds than intended
The valkyrs do some new abilities. all this crap makes you change ur strategy a bit.
They are harder on heroic than they are on normal dif.
Because all of this, they are considered hardmode version of that specific boss. Again. since 3.2, hard modes are called heroic difficulty and you will never hear a blizz dev say lord jarraxus' hard mode got hotfixed. You will hear him say lord jarraxus on heroic difficulty got hotfixed.

The chest is something extra. You get awarded for beeing pro. Like someone said already in this thread, you dont have to change ur strategy in any way and the bosses dont loose hp, dmg or abilities if u fail to kill them in 25 tries.
Sadly the heroic version of the coliseum is very undertuned in my opinion and that's what caused all this confusion among ppl who never did a hardmode in 25man ulduar.

One last question tho. for rafy and volrathy. What is the point of having a normal and a heroic difficulty, if only the chest is hard mode? Why dosnt the normal difficulty have a hard mode chest then?
Also you said: "you will get a freakin' 258 or 272 ilevel loot" hope you are aware the ilvl the bosses drop in heroic difficulty is 258 too.

edit: rafy, u said in another thread:

yeah if you're a casual guild / group, you can do the first 4 bosses.
but don't expect to kill Anub'arak in hard mode so easily.

Anub'arak in hard mode, w00t?

[Jacobim]

So lets just pretend that there is no tribute chest. No pot of gold to chase at the end of this particular, Tirion-themed rainbow. Are you now seriously trying to tell me that Blizzard has gone from the introduction and full endorsement of hard modes in Ulduar, to a completely different system whereby there are no hard modes anymore? Or does it seem more logical that on particular fights (namely FL, Freya, Yogg), casuals were initially confused by what they were expected to do to "turn off" the hard mode, so Blizz decided that they'd make it easier for them by enacting full separation of the two?

From what I can tell, a hard mode is defined by having extra mechanics that are not present in the normal encounter, or by having some sort of requirement imposed (still pretending there is no tribute chest here, so that doesn't count). Furthermore, hard mode loot is defined as being a given number of ilvls above what is available in the normal encounter. Seems to me, heroic raids meet these requirements.

Now lets look at what this tribute chest is. It's a reward for not dying. Where have I seen that before? Oh yes, in Naxx we had Undying/Immortal. In Ulduar we had Champion of Ulduar. Now we have this, the natural progression of the idea. Would anyone ever say a Yogg+0 kill was invalid because someone died on an attempt, thus not ticking it off on Champion of Ulduar? Seems pretty harsh to do that. The tribute chest is not related to hard modes of the encounters in any way shape or form. Yet, it does fulfill the requirement of higher ilvl gear, and imposes a requirement on the completion of the raid. So, at a complete stretch, you could perhaps argue that getting the tribute chest is completing the hard mode of the raid instance. That does not at all invalidate the hard modes of the individual encounters.

Oh, and before anyone who's got such bad tunnel vision they refuse to admit they are wrong jumps in with "OMG u made a account jus 2 post that, GTFO noob" or some such, I made the account to reply to a different thread that has since been deleted.

[Rafy]

Again. since 3.2, hard modes are called heroic difficulty and you will never hear a blizz dev say lord jarraxus' hard mode got hotfixed. You will hear him say lord jarraxus on heroic difficulty got hotfixed.

so I'm right...

[nort]

yes. u r right. hard mode=heroic difficulty

[Zalduun]

Can anyone tell me what that black and white addon that is tracking the boss deaths and some kind of time taken? It's in every one of these screenshots

[Gilian]

So people think that hardmode is wiping 0 times instead of 11 times? Nice addition to the game then... First you get normal mode that is one shotted by almost every guild. Then you get almost the exactly same encounters on "heroic mode". If that's too easy for you then you just have to not wipe at all on heroic mode with exactly the same encounters again. Yes, everyone is thrilled to do this! So much fun! At least you get another epic in the end! w00t. And another achievement, yay.

Oh, yes, gz on the kill.

[bbr]

cus not dying is the real hard mode? yehright

Indeed it is.