Beast Cleave!

[Showlanlol]

Has anyone faced the notorious Beast Cleave since patch?

I wasn't able to do 3v3 yesterday as our mage decided to raid on his DK (LOLPVEGEAR), which is a shame. And every one I talk to on my server just replies with "No good hunters".

Which got me thinking.

Do the hunters within this comp actually need to require "skill"? What is skill? I'd maybe rank their competence to those of Prot Palas - (recently a topic created by a prot pala asking what and how he should spec and gem after the prot pala nerfs. Heard of holy? :\)

Take for instance hunters like Ballplaya (for those who haven't seen it, http://warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=121213), whose skill is just undeniable, and compare to your average Beast Cleave hunter. The thought of this makes me want to throw my toys out of the pram, even harder and farther.

Is there even a counter to this?
15 second CD on Earthbind, which provides a 5 second snare immunity every pulse, therefore, in theory, if destroyed as soon as it's laid, there's only a 10 second down time.
BW hunter, again immune to all forms of CC and snares.
Freedom from the pala, plus dispels (including poison cleansing).

Discuss.

[Engentlmn]

I think a lot of comps have suffered from being called "faceroll" or "ez-mode" comps, but they are all dwarfed in comparison to beast cleave. I cannot for the life of me think of anything that strong counters this comp besides perfect play, sure there a ways to beat it, but very few that will actually work.

Kudos to eMg for creating what is quite possibly the biggest faceroll comp wow has ever seen.

[sterfry1988]

I think it would be interesting to see a DK, combat rogue, healer team.

Get the DK to DG a DPS away from the healer, pop Killing spree and GG ? i think the rogue would have to have a good amount of Arp not quite sure.

Any thoughts?

[Showlanlol]

Get the DK to DG a DPS away from the healer, pop Killing spree and GG ? i think the rogue would have to have a good amount of Arp not quite sure.

The rogue and healer would get dropped instantly. And if this was a comp to just counter Beast Cleave, then it'd have to be a Resto Shaman. BL/totems would be needed to drop something fast.
But even then, if you DG the hunter say, easy as enough for him to get away with earthbind down, granting him immunity and snaring yourself. Not to mention freedom and dispels, hah, not forgetting the BW.
And the shaman, all he does is again, earthbind and ghost wolf away. When he's far enough, frost shock roots, and your DG was nulified, as you left a BM hunter to free-shoot at your healer.

As Engentlmn said, I myself can not thereocraft any counter to this team. Plate cleaves, warriors will get dropped. Caster cleaves, lol, might as well leave arena and queue for next game faster, rather than waiting to get destroyed within 2 GCDs.

MAYBE something like feral/combat rog/disc priest, sit on the paladin, force bubble and down him. However, you will HAVE to LoS when the hunter goes BW.

[Kexmeister]

Why are the names of these comps starting to sound like B.C rich guitars?

[Kraddark]

The cleave setup isn't generally a setup that requires alot of skill imo. Which was funny, at the blizzcon tournament it came down to cleave vs cleave. (They tried to used a resto druid but he died in seconds so he switch to a holy paladin). Blizzard said 70 was Chess Board Pvp well 80 Pvp is like checkers, except both teams have chainsaws and can make up their own rules. There are still some comps that requires alot of CC and coordination but the ones winning right now aren't typically those.

[Proletariat]

Faced beast cleave several times as RMP, and unsurprisingly it's not very fun. Either the mage is blown up or I as the priest is blown up. The hunter is notoriously hard to stick to; we've been having the most success going for the shaman, but never managed to get a kill against them yet. Granted we've only had 3-4 hours of games total so far into the season, but we've seen four separate beast cleaves and lost to them all. Can only hope we'll come up with something as we gain more experience against this comp

[Rurikar]

What is with your hard on for beast cleave? Every thread is you talking about how pro it is to have an enhance shaman and hunter roll face on keyboards and kill people.

[Showlanlol]

What is with your hard on for beast cleave? Every thread is you talking about how pro it is to have an enhance shaman and hunter roll face on keyboards and kill people.

Someone's annoyed we're hating on his comp

[octalol]

hunter is not faceroll nowadays.

[lizard]

I would propose something along the lines of hunter holy pal and (high resilience) warrior. the key to this comp is surviving the wolves and kiting the enhancer. the hunter can macro-kill earthbind to make the enhancer snareable, the warrior can fear the wolves to take away pressure and the pal can DS and heal through the most critical moments. BoF and retaliation should make the warrior powerful enough to apply constant pressure and snare the enhancer.
basically, you are playing a counter-beastcleave cleave. it's still no faceroll but neither is it easy for the other team (granted the enhancer is not in the face of anyone but the warrior).

[Deleted]

hunter is not faceroll nowadays.

Rogue is biggest faceroll off all, next to that every class and specc are faceroll since Wotlk.

I can log on a class of my friends, pick any specc i want i can clear Ulduar 25 after spending 5 mins reading spells...pick 5 buttons, or install grid/healbot/voodoo or something and tada. If there is a player that has bad playstyle in anything he just fails, no i am not that good and im sure 90% of WoW players can do the same.

I am really sad when i see a person asking for help for there class on forums. (i know topic creator didnt but just saying )

[Sesto]

hunter is not faceroll nowadays.

Tis true.

[Engentlmn]

Rogue is biggest faceroll off all, next to that every class and specc are faceroll since Wotlk.

I can log on a class of my friends, pick any specc i want i can clear Ulduar 25 after spending 5 mins reading spells...pick 5 buttons, or install grid/healbot/voodoo or something and tada. If there is a player that has bad playstyle in anything he just fails, no i am not that good and im sure 90% of WoW players can do the same.

I am really sad when i see a person asking for help for there class on forums. (i know topic creator didnt but just saying )

You couldn't be more wrong.

1. Rogue is not faceroll, if you have ever played on in a high-end PvP setting you would know the class is far from it.
2. You cannot judge how easy a class is to play by PvEing. PvE is on the bottom of totem insofar as skill is concerned. You're fighting against scripted, predictable opponents with a group of 24 other people. You could auto attack and still clear Ulduar.
3. There is nothing wrong with asking for help, certain classes are less forgiving when it comes to learning them, dont be an asshole.

ON TOPIC

I think the advantage Beast Cleave has is the fact that no matter what they always determine how a fight starts. So perhaps something like Rogue, Rogue, Druid could fare well against beast cleave. With that much control it shouldnt be too hard to kill something like a hunter or shaman.

[Showlanlol]

I would propose something along the lines of hunter holy pal and (high resilience) warrior. the key to this comp is surviving the wolves and kiting the enhancer. the hunter can macro-kill earthbind to make the enhancer snareable, the warrior can fear the wolves to take away pressure and the pal can DS and heal through the most critical moments. BoF and retaliation should make the warrior powerful enough to apply constant pressure and snare the enhancer.
basically, you are playing a counter-beastcleave cleave. it's still no faceroll but neither is it easy for the other team (granted the enhancer is not in the face of anyone but the warrior).

At MLG, x6tence ran DK/Warr/Pal against eMg's beast cleave, and their warrior was using full resi gear, commanding shout AND BoK and he was gibbed instantly. Plus the BoF will be dispelled instantly by the shaman.

[Gardrenn]

I would propose something along the lines of hunter holy pal and (high resilience) warrior. the key to this comp is surviving the wolves and kiting the enhancer. the hunter can macro-kill earthbind to make the enhancer snareable, the warrior can fear the wolves to take away pressure and the pal can DS and heal through the most critical moments. BoF and retaliation should make the warrior powerful enough to apply constant pressure and snare the enhancer.
basically, you are playing a counter-beastcleave cleave. it's still no faceroll but neither is it easy for the other team (granted the enhancer is not in the face of anyone but the warrior).

Kite an enhance? You must be joking. And killing his earthbind won't make him snareable it will simply make it not slow your partners down but I'm sure the hunter traps will do that anyway. The earthbind gives the shaman a buff that lasts 5 seconds everytime the totem pulses. A ret/rogue/priest might be able to beat this team if they were able to roll cc's onto the healer enough to gib the shaman down when his wolves were on cd, problem there would be surviving the beast teams cd's long enough to even try. And even then the hunter could probably put enough crap on the rogue to stop it.

[Showlanlol]

Was about to say that. And as i said in my OP, the earthbind theoretically only has a 10 seconds cooldown.

At Gardrenn:
Ret, Rog, Priest, not too sure. The hunter and shaman will have shits and giggles blowing up either priest or rogue. To be honest, they don't even need to use cooldowns to force a pain suppression on one target, and then an instant switch with CDs on the other and he's dead. And as you said, traps will just be forever kiting, not to mention numerous traps out. With offensive dispels from the shaman, BoF will be void.

[Cronosone]

Managed to go about 50/50 against this combo at 2.4k rating last season, with unholy DK, survival hunter (stamina stacking), druid. Went for shammy with as much cc as physically possible thrown at healer, 2 deterrance + antimagic-zone etc just about keeps our hunter alive during their burst, after that it's pretty easy for us to beat them.

[Showlanlol]

Anyone care to explain what the beast cleave comp is and what's so special about it? Don't arena, would like to know.

It's a composition that was first bought into the limeligh by eMg at MLG Dallas when they took 1st spot.
It consists of an Enhancement Shaman/BM Hunter/Paladin.

It's got the most insane burst, most reliable and consistent snare/CC immunity and has virtually no counters.

[nikat]

At MLG, x6tence ran DK/Warr/Pal against eMg's beast cleave, and their warrior was using full resi gear, commanding shout AND BoK and he was gibbed instantly. Plus the BoF will be dispelled instantly by the shaman.

and the warrior never tried to LoS during the BW/hero at all, heck he blade stormed while he was getting focused.

vs that comp if warrior is charging in they should be starting with a shield equipped and shield wall ready. The goal vs this comp is to outlast in good position the hero/BW. I am not saying this will be easy for a lot of comp's, but its what you need to try and do.

You know its funny through all of MLG I saw half the LOS'ing the hunter then I do on live.