Judgement of the Just

[Maneken]

Simple question, need help in prot offspecc build for Toc 25 man, can i save few points in not putting them into Judgement of just?
Ty guys in advance.

[Trishot]

Depends on your raid make up. You can save points (if you want to) if you have either a warrior using TC, a druid using god knows what or a DK (tank/DPS speced into Imp Icy Talons, correct the name if I'm wrong)

[Nillo]

Try this one:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...&version=10192

Never ever skip Judgements of the Just.

[Shonubi]

tbh ...i don't put in judgement of the just...just because some talents are better.That's why we got other classes (like druids -feral) for slow attack effect.The only good thing at this talent is the seal thingy...but because we don't have many spells and many rotations or something i like to have my tanking just a little more chalenging :P if u can call that challenging

[Maneken]

Thx guys in quick answers.
See alot of ppl not going for Divinity talents, are so bad 5% of better healing on us as tank in raid?

[Nillo]

tbh ...i don't put in judgement of the just...just because some talents are better.That's why we got other classes (like druids -feral) for slow attack effect.The only good thing at this talent is the seal thingy...but because we don't have many spells and many rotations or something i like to have my tanking just a little more chalenging :P if u can call that challenging

JotJ is one of the best damage reducers and as you can't guarantee that someone else does it for you there's absolutely no reason to drop it for one of those talents you call "better" (actually there are no good talents left to take in the usual 0/53/18 build)

Thx guys in quick answers.
See alot of ppl not going for Divinity talents, are so bad 5% of better healing on us as tank in raid?

The problem is that Divinity will in most cases only lead to overheal and in those few cases where it doesn't it's just an extremely small bonus per talent point.

[Thorgred]

+1

JotJ can be up to 20% less damage taken. You should try to be the best tank you can possibly be without anyone else's help - seeing as you can't always guarantee that your thunderclapping warrior pal will be alive, don't you think that its better to take this talent?

Divinity is poo.
If healers could adjust the amount they are healing depending on incoming damage, maybe it would be good. But current healing rotations tend to be spammed big heals. For example, if i take a 20k hit, i'm going to take about 40k healing within the next 2 seconds. An additional 5% is wasted. Healers don't have time to think 'o, he took 20k damage... now I i do one flash of light, one holy light and another flash, he should be back to full. Instead, they spam 2 holy lights, overheal, divinity is wasted.

That being said, its a good place to drop 2-3 points rather than speccing for reckoning.

[Shonubi]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...&version=10192 this is the spec i like
WHY:
1)Seals of The Pure 1st...I like this talent because it increases the damage of my main seal:Seal of Vengeance
2)I didn't go deeply in the retri tree just because i wanted more damage to my main seal.The crit is optional.The parry is optional 2..u can go into Benediction.I like improved Judgements because i use them more often and i like heart of the crusade because it's passively 3% crit when i use judgement(This is good for raid 2)
3)I do like Reckoning but i prefer Divinity
4)One handed weapon specialization it increases all damage done not only your weapon damage.Some do a big misunderstanding.
5)You don't need spiritual atunement because you got divine plea
6)for glyphs i use divine plea because it's always active,i use judgement because u do use it alot from improved judgements and Hammer of righteous because you hit an aditional target.Good for aoe packs.

-if you have any other question please reply on post.

[x]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...&version=10192 this is the spec i like
WHY:
1)Seals of The Pure 1st...I like this talent because it increases the damage of my main seal:Seal of Vengeance
2)I didn't go deeply in the retri tree just because i wanted more damage to my main seal.The crit is optional.The parry is optional 2..u can go into Benediction.I like improved Judgements because i use them more often and i like heart of the crusade because it's passively 3% crit when i use judgement(This is good for raid 2)
3)I do like Reckoning but i prefer Divinity
4)One handed weapon specialization it increases all damage done not only your weapon damage.Some do a big misunderstanding.
5)You don't need spiritual atunement because you got divine plea
6)for glyphs i use divine plea because it's always active,i use judgement because u do use it alot from improved judgements and Hammer of righteous because you hit an aditional target.Good for aoe packs.

-if you have any other question please reply on post.

the parry is optional? BENEDICTION?!?!? on more point in spiritual atunement is a better mana gain than the points in benediction, if you are having mana problems that is.

also the glyph of judgements is only good if you are Expertise capped already, if not then glyph of seal of vengeance is better.

also crusade will be better than Sotp till you get the tier bonus to seal of vengeance.

[Maneken]

I was going for Sotp in holy but im thinking to go deeper in retri.
Sotp serves me good in Ulduar but wanna check how it will be with deeper retri points in Toc 25 man.

[doomchken]

Can i just say if i saw you not specced into judgments of the just in a raid i would drop you.

[Shonubi]

judgements of the just is shit talent and you all know it :P in a 25 man u got other classes to do that.

[Zoidie]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...&version=10192 this is the spec i like
WHY:
1)Seals of The Pure 1st...I like this talent because it increases the damage of my main seal:Seal of Vengeance
2)I didn't go deeply in the retri tree just because i wanted more damage to my main seal.The crit is optional.The parry is optional 2..u can go into Benediction.I like improved Judgements because i use them more often and i like heart of the crusade because it's passively 3% crit when i use judgement(This is good for raid 2)
3)I do like Reckoning but i prefer Divinity
4)One handed weapon specialization it increases all damage done not only your weapon damage.Some do a big misunderstanding.
5)You don't need spiritual atunement because you got divine plea
6)for glyphs i use divine plea because it's always active,i use judgement because u do use it alot from improved judgements and Hammer of righteous because you hit an aditional target.Good for aoe packs.

-if you have any other question please reply on post.

Parry optional ? Eh ? Just what kind of tank are you

I really can't understand your reasoning for some thing's. In your first post you were talking about not taking judgement of the just because other classes do it, yet you praise a talent that other classes can do as well saying it's better for the raid.

As for no SA then you gotta be kidding me. If your doing any kind of rotation, there is no way that 200 odd mana per...what.....3 second's, is gonna keep your mana bar filled up. You might just have enough if your using sanctuary too but it would be doubtful.

[doomchken]

only bear druids spec into infected wounds and there are so many fights where a warrior wouldn't be thunderclapping for you, lastly why would you want to depend on a frost dk being there when many do not spec into improved icy talons all the way(because every tank should have that effect up on the boss anyway). Please tell me what class is making this talent useless in all your raids.

Edit: to give an example how stupid not speccing into it is I don't spec our of ToL because Paladins spec into imp Devo aura.

[Zoidie]

I was going for Sotp in holy but im thinking to go deeper in retri.
Sotp serves me good in Ulduar but wanna check how it will be with deeper retri points in Toc 25 man.

From all the theory crafting around, speccing down to crusade would be best threat for ToTC since your back to getting the 6% extra damange instead of just 3 when in Ulduar. Although if recall SoTP+Reck were not far behind once getting a fairly decent weapon ? (Was a while ago i read it maybe somebody can correct me if im wrong)

EDIT: Was too busy with my jaw open at Shonubi that i forgot to answer the op's question. If i were you i would keep JotJ. Although if your only offtanking trash or multiple bosses and not single stuff it loses it's worth really. Slowing one mob down when your tnaking 5 or 6 is most likely not worth it, but for pack's of up to 2 or 3 where you can keep a judgement up almost all the time it would be pretty handy.

[Shonubi]

first of all i said parry is optional just in case he got problems from an attack coming after a parry.2nd. Yes i tank with that spec and i got no problem.In fact it's rly better than some other stupid specs

[Nillo]

judgements of the just is shit talent and you all know it :P in a 25 man u got other classes to do that.

Please troll another forum your Spec and Glyph choices are so bad it hurts.

Saying Parry is optional means you're not really trying to tank you're just going for MOAR dps in TANKGEAR?
SotP and Crusade do basically the same but Pursuit of Justice/Vindication make Crusade far better.
And why the hell did you pick Divinity if you take a shit on survivability anyway?

[Erinol]

Try this one:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...&version=10192

Never ever skip Judgements of the Just.

if you have a holy pally in your raid divine guardian is worthless, also vindication is pretty bad as well, i could see where you could argue that it's useful, but you could just as easily have a ret pally who has it or use demoralizing shout if you wanted the -AP that badly. Pursuit of justice is a judgment call. If you want it, take it. Most classes don't have a passive speed increase and they get out of shit just fine, as for getting to/picking up mobs faster, you have avengers shield and the new hand of reckoning, use them.

1/2 spiritual attunement is plenty to get you by mana - wise but if you plan on tanking general vezax you better get 2/2 otherwise it won't buff the mana recieved and you'll go oom rather quickly, and then you're boned. (though since you said it was your offset you probably wouldn't be)

Move those 2 in vindication into conviction and if you want (Personal preference) move the 2 in pursuit of justice into vindication as well

[doomchken]

In fact it's rly better than some other stupid specs

That is such a stupid response i could make a billion stupid specs that wouldn't make your spec any better, no not getting parry is never an option when bosses hit for half your health being able to stop their next blow trumps 5percent more damage.

Edit:

if you have a holy pally in your raid divine guardian is worthless

I would say that is personal choice because if you are not MT'ing and can bubble during a fight 40% damage reduction raid wide is invaluble(for instance phase 2 mimiron/ 1 of the many other raid wide damage attacks).

[Pretorian]

judgements of the just is shit talent and you all know it :P in a 25 man u got other classes to do that.

You're either trolling or you really don't know the paladin class. You might think you do, but you don't. Do yourself a favour and start reading "around".