Armor Penetration Nerf in 3.2.2

[Boubouille]

Armor Penetration Nerf in 3.2.2

The nerf to armor pen in 3.2.2 is intentional. Compared to the recent buff where we increased the value of armor rating to 125%, this nerf would take it back down to 110%. While we are still evaluating the effects of this change in the 3.2.2 build, we did want to let you know of the possibility in case you were about to spend a lot on armor pen gems.

In fact, this was really the point. Several melee specs (and Marksman hunters) had begun to focus on armor pen at the expense of all other stats. Gear without armor pen was being passed over and gem sockets were increasingly being filled with just this one stat. While every spec has stats that are more valuable than others, this one felt like it was starting to trump everything. Not coincidentally, characters stacking lots of armor pen were starting to do more damage than their peers and more damage than we were comfortable with.

This change is largely for PvE reasons, though we won't cry at all if melee damage in PvP drops a little as a result.

We're letting you know now so that this doesn't feel like a stealth nerf, assuming it goes live. While you might disagree or be frustrated by the change (though I also suspect it won't come as a surprise to many players), we ask that you try and keep your response to something appropriate for these forums.

[Solveig]

I don't see the point of nerfing a stat if it's going to end up being taken out o.O

[Mslagsalot]

blah blah blah 'were making the game better for you'

uh huh.

[Lycanthro]

Not surprised at all. /shrug I think arp is a fun stat but if I go back to agility gems and stacking crit on my gear I won't bat an eyelash. The real reason for this nerf is that in Icecrown we're going to be able to get real close to the hard cap without a trinket proc and that would just absurdly increase dps. I doubt 125 to 110 is going to make a huge difference though, people will probably just drop one or two pieces of armor penetration gear.

[Pally_Power]

I don't see the point of nerfing a stat if it's going to end up being taken out o.O

Not for many more months is it going to be taken out, so they can't allow it to be overpowered while it's here.

[NyksWyldMynd]

I don't see the point of nerfing a stat if it's going to end up being taken out o.O

It's not actually going to be taken out of the game.
It's just being moved to a passive mastery thing in some talent trees.

So while you might not see ArP on gear, it'll still be in the game.

[Araella]

Blizzard fails to realize at the time of design that a stat that increases damage by a certain percent will eventually outweigh the advantages of a stat that increases damage by a set amount. News at 11.

Yup - I'm sure the 'don't be hatin' people will post, but you (meaning Blizzard) really do need to be literally retarded not to have realized this outcome from the start.

btw - the nerf doesn't change the fact that *at a certain point*, arp is *still* going to be better than any other stat - All it does is delay that point. Once you reach that point though it's still going to be an unbalanced stat. Players will still stack it above anything else until they cap it. Blizzard is just masking what was a design flaw from the start.

Pretty much every patch has seen an 'oops maybe we shouldn't have put that much XYZ on the armor, let's restructure certain classes / game mechanics'. It would be nice if they could finally get it right the first time, so that players are affected more by the gear they get than they are by their spell coefficients constantly changing.

[Ledbetterus]

Interesting that all ToC hunter gear is LOADED with ArP. Nice itemization.. basically a nerf to most physical DPS classes, not just ArP.

[Devlin1991]

Its no problem,, in heroic ToC gear I can sit on 100% armour pen passive as an arms warrior with an AXE. even with this nerf it wont stop warriors hitting the hard cap before IC.


GC seems to have some image that melee cleave teams with arp are OP.. aka any team with a warrior + <insert melle> + healer etc

I guess he hasn't felt the wrath of the ELE-SHAM/WARLOCK/healer teams that end matches in 4 GCD when played immaculately.

[Azjadi]

Its no problem,, in heroic ToC gear I can sit on 100% armour pen passive as an arms warrior with an AXE. even with this nerf it wont stop warriors hitting the hard cap before IC.


GC seems to have some image that melee cleave teams with arp are OP.. aka any team with a warrior + <insert melle> + healer etc

I guess he hasn't felt the wrath of the ELE-SHAM/WARLOCK/healer teams that end matches in 4 GCD when played immaculately.

I'm affraid you missed point. They are not changing hard/soft cap, u will stay at same % as you are now. Problem is this stat won't incaste your DPS this much as it does now, so basicly with small diffrences between str/arp or agi/arp geming for agi/str will benefit you more from now. ArP was "bad" and "useless" stat back in 3.0.9, it's geting to same value now.

All I can say is: yes, yes, yes! Now just take it from items :>!

[Devlin1991]

Gear Gemming wont change at all for most ARP stacking classes.

They will still gem to the soft /hard cap then gem STR again or AGI again. Only this this change does is nerf classes that use it dps

Well done blizzard, Check raid parses and see that in the vast majority of fight in recent raids Caster dps lol's Physical dps on the meters. This will further emphasise this gap.

Warlock/mage lol'ing meters will return as MM hunters and warriors and rogues and Ferals will see a decrease in dps for no other reason that Pvp QQ even if GC doesn't want to admit it.


personally i blame Priests and warlocks that sit on warriors forums and QQ about getting 5k Ms critted when the holy stars align for maybe 5s out of 60s.
<<Arp trinket proccing with berserking on wep at same time>>

the other 55s we hit like pansies

[pìka]

Do people know how hard it is for a warrior without any armor pen these days?
Every fucking healer pop a damn shield.

[Elementium]

I kinda wish they'd just take it out now.. We get it, hunters love their Armor pen, but they aren't the only class that uses physical dps mail..

[Entore]

I'm affraid you missed point. They are not changing hard/soft cap, u will stay at same % as you are now. Problem is this stat won't incaste your DPS this much as it does now, so basicly with small diffrences between str/arp or agi/arp geming for agi/str will benefit you more from now. ArP was "bad" and "useless" stat back in 3.0.9, it's geting to same value now.

All I can say is: yes, yes, yes! Now just take it from items :>!

You missed the point too. They buffed it by 125% from when it was useless, i.e. made it 2.25 times as beneficial. The nerf on the PTR right now makes that value 2.1 times as benefical, compared to pre-buffed armor penetration. All good in the hood methinks.

[pìka]

next gems inc is crit I think

[Indris]

In fact, this was really the point. Several melee specs (and Marksman hunters) had begun to focus on armor pen at the expense of all other stats. Gear without armor pen was being passed over and gem sockets were increasingly being filled with just this one stat. While every spec has stats that are more valuable than others, this one felt like it was starting to trump everything.

Why does their lead dev even post bullsh%& like this? Every caster DPS stacks SP above everything, most tanks stack Stamina above everything, couple of healing classes care about nothing but Int, Ret Palas & Deathknights go for pure Str everywhere... So what, if some classes suddenly start swapping Str for Arp, that's somehow a problem, but if another class values Str at a 1:3 ratio against every other stat that's fine and dandy? Okay...

[Azjadi]

You missed the point too. They buffed it by 125% from when it was useless, i.e. made it 2.25 times as beneficial. The nerf on the PTR right now makes that value 2.1 times as benefical, compared to pre-buffed armor penetration. All good in the hood methinks.

They reverted previous buff.

[Devlin1991]

After editing "Landsoul's Spreadsheet" to factor in this arp nerf this is my findings.

If any of my math for % etc is wrong I aplogise but the DPS pics are accurate.

[Naydie]

Why does their lead dev even post bullsh%& like this? Every caster DPS stacks SP above everything, most tanks stack Stamina above everything, couple of healing classes care about nothing but Int, Ret Palas & Deathknights go for pure Str everywhere... So what, if some classes suddenly start swapping Str for Arp, that's somehow a problem, but if another class values Str at a 1:3 ratio against every other stat that's fine and dandy? Okay...

You can't get 100% strength or stamina. But even this nerf won't fix the real problem. They're removing it though so it doesn't matter much.

[Spaceboy33]

I'm affraid you missed point. They are not changing hard/soft cap, u will stay at same % as you are now. Problem is this stat won't incaste your DPS this much as it does now, so basicly with small diffrences between str/arp or agi/arp geming for agi/str will benefit you more from now. ArP was "bad" and "useless" stat back in 3.0.9, it's geting to same value now.

All I can say is: yes, yes, yes! Now just take it from items :>!

He was right on point. They would have to change the %. The whole way this stat works is by decreasing the effect of the opponent's armor (as I understand it), so there is no way to just "decrease DPS" as there would be with Attack Power. Would have to be done through increasing relative percentages. This was a FUN stat, and making it not practical anymore will kind of destroy it and set it back to the AP grind it has always been. Way to destroy it Blizz. They're going to extremize it even more in the expansion. We wont even have to make a choice. All the gear will have exactly what every class in that proficiency needs, nothing it doesnt, and no choices to be made. Sad that's what it is coming to.