damn sorry for stating the reasoning behind why I didn't take the fear reduction talent.
Also, ignoring the fact that yes, I do die a lot in raids, I die constantly on trash, and everytime our healers let a tank die, I'm usually one of the first 2 to go. I am having a hard time finding the parse where I died 8 times to bosses where Kayla only died once. And by all means, if you find it, feel free to share, since I'll guarantee its either a progression night on H LK or H RS, like I know this last week Kayla left 2 hours before the end of raid time on a night of H LK wipes.
Blue, I've put in over 200 attmepts on HLK from no buff to the 2nd week of 15%, and I can tell you straight up that 12% more healong on FoL is VERY much worth it. If one of your healers gets picked up on valks, you HAVE to offheal the next infest or it is going to be a wipe, period. Obviously it was much more needed at 5%-15%(time when my guild was actually making progress through valks --> getting to p3 very consistently) than at 30%, but the point still stand that the minisule mana gain and tiny spell crit won't help as much as more healing.
The point I was trying to make is that of course a +healing talent is going to look better if you go out of your way to heal, but short of a very few circumstances its a dps loss just to cast heals, let alone the clutch moments when heals are needed. Both talents are complete shit, but if as a ret pally you are called on more frequently than maybe 3-5 times a night to save someone then someone else in your raid group isn't doing their job. And when you are needed to heal a little bit, its the act of you actually having the sense of mind to cast the FoL that saves people, you're never gonna try and save someone and wish your FoL had done 600 more healing.
If infest is an issue then run an Aura Mastery rotation that people follow to the dime. My old guild had four paladins...myself and the other ret would AM, and the holy paladins would AM one infest and DG the other. Basically, a cooldown every single infest, and it gave us a good blanket to forumlate strategy around. After the healers got the hang of it at 5% and 10% we stopped the rotation and only used AM or DG in clutch situations(like a bad infest or whatever), but it took a good number of attempts to reach that point.
But I digress, overall it's just the smarter talent to pick. Now I'm not human anymore so that's why I picked up the reduced fear talent, but I wouldn't fret that one so much.
Prentice is also a whore for not responding to my PM about the rig I'm building.
I will take back the deaths comment though. It appears that the WoL parse included all of your deaths to wipes but only one of Kayla's. The raid I was referring to was last Tuesday, but that's a moot point.
Our gear being very similar in overall level, I feel that I am contributing quite a bit more than you are and not just on Dreamwalker. Just my opinion, but to each his own. Others may be of the same opinion as you and they're entitled to that opinion as well.
Why would you even bring up Guardian Spirit?? We don't have any holy priests, but you already knew that because you were very thorough with the parses. In that attempt, I did just over 8k DPS. You did 9k DPS. In the following attempt where we passed the encounter, I did 10k DPS while casting 50 FoL's. I am still trying to figure out the point you are trying to make.
Worry less about inferior talents and more about your time on target, imo. There shouldn't be a 3.7k DPS difference between you and me on a tank n' spank fight.
EDIT: Using Speed Potions would be a good start.
EDIT2: And you failed to include the talents application to the Sheath of Light HoT (x2). The real talent contribution was much closer to 120k that fight.
EDIT3: If Kayla left two hours early on LK attempts, who was providing 3% Haste?
You linked the parse to me twice, but don't worry, I went and found a parse with you in it
Your kill time was the better part of a minute faster than ours, now this won't account for the dps difference, but try to keep things in perspective, your guild is on a whole other level compared to mine and you're using a 284 weapon and had just enough time to pop wings twice. On top of that, you used consumables that I didn't, mind you I usually do if you scroll back a week or two you'll see I go through plenty of Potions of Speed, but we basically do ICC25 on auto pilot through the first 8 bosses, I can't really find it on WoL, but I'm fairly certain I wasn't even flasked.
Admittedly, I should heal more, I basically spend the entire time I'm on dreamwalker standing around waiting for something worth meleeing to come out of the doors on my side, I do usually pop wings and throw LoH at some point during the fight, but I could easily bust out my focus macro and FoL in between mobs. But, even on your own parses you used FoL i believe 150 times that night, and 137 were on two valithria attempts. Thats a great fight to heal on, and I would be a better pally for helping out. But, we're talking about 2 completely shit talents, and you use the +healing talent primarily for 1 encounter, I picked up the Int talent because I can't remember the last time I healed anything in a raid. But, Badpaladin made a good point, as we move forward on HLK, maybe I'll want to have more healing utility for Infests, or shit, maybe those nights where I have to heal myself on H Sindy it won't take as long to get into the clear. I was wrong, the talent has situational functionality, but if there were even a semi-viable dps choice at that tier in Holy this wouldn't even be a discussion, no one would sacrifice a real dps talent for a +healing talent.
I know there is no shoulder enchant - only just upgraded with the token yesterday
I know hit rating is a little high but im not really trying for it - just seems to be the way gear goes these days - ilvl 277 items really need hit rating ><
Last edited by Jon The Wizard; 2010-08-25 at 12:40 AM. Reason: Didn't rate last guy. Sorry!
Jorundr, Blood Elf Paladin
Originally Posted by Belkar Bitterleaf
Speed Use: 9 players using them, 20 being the highest number for your priest out of 27 uses potentially possibly per person(alliteration is fucking awesome). Obsiously not every spec double pots speed, but you get a decent idea.
Wild magic Use: 2 players using them(likely pre-pot due to haste not being as good as a pre-pot for most casters), highest use is 3.
I'm not going to break down who's not having good % spell uptime, effective cooldowns for your raid, I'm not going to break out the expression editor and see who failed hardcore at attacking the wrong stuff for your wipes on PP....but you get the idea. There's a ton the guild could do to boost your own performance, and some of them are as simple as just pre-potting and getting a 2nd potion use during heroism or whatever.((by the way, if you do need any hardcore parse analysis send a PM, I'm pretty well-versed on finding out every single little thing somebody did in raid with wol))
Quite frankly I think you've handled the "MMO ret paladin bashing" pretty damn well, so don't take what all of us say as "RAAAAAAA GET OUT WE HATE YOU"! Glad to see you picked up engineering, it's a small boost to DPS and a MASSIVE raid utility boost with booties. But yeah, talk to your guild and get them motivated to perform better. It's pretty amazing what ranking on a few fights does for guild morale, let alone progression.
I think it's funny that when people started going back to what this thread is about, everyone pretty much ignored it by either continuing the previous argument or not rating the people and just inserting their links.
@Phosey - Move your NMT from your weapon to your chest and gem straight str in bryn. Everything else is fine.
@Beno - Without using Rawr, my best idea at lowering your dps is by getting the frost leather belt and fester 25's gloves. Get rid of the str/stam gem and replace it with an NMT. Gem straight str in your legs. You should use Rawr to see whether or not you should be gemming str/crit in your AV ring, it may or may not be a dps loss compared to straight str. You have 5 points in DI. You can read all about why you shouldn't.
@Jon - I don't understand your gemming at all. You should gem straight str with an NMT in a blue/red socket combo, str/crit in yellow sockets on their own or with red socket(s) when the bonus is +4 str or more. You should also be using the 21agi/3%crit meta (relentless earthsiege). You also need Berserking, 23 haste to cloak, and to not gem icewalker when you're over hit cap. Your spec should be 11/5/55. Your glyphs should be SoV, Judge, and Cons.
pff i use this thread to /cheer @myself. 10 shards tonight, with lk still up. leaves me 8 away, and i finally got a h tier token. as well as our guild finally got its second h taj. i think i'm going to need two more to drop now. my guild merged with a alliance guild on the server, so now we have almost 50 raiders, i assume a ton are about to transfer/leave/stop raiding. but with them came another enh that needed it. and since they used the exact same dkp system as us we combined the list, and that guy has me beat. oh well, their guild had amazing luck with taj. all of their rets and rogues had them.
Nikoll - Retribution Paladin