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  1. #41

    Re: Priests OOM in raids too fast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fateful
    I don't think I've ever gone oom during a fight I barely touch fiend or hymn during most fights I think I only really need them healing hard modes. God knows the last time I touch a mana potion lol. :-\
    IMO, if you're barely touching your HoH or SF, you probably are geared a bit regen heavy. When I realized I was barely using mine, I dropped some regen for some more throughput, and I feel like it works out a lot better. Sure, I cut it a bit close sometimes, but that's what I save my mana pot. Even still, I think I've used only 1-2 mana pots in the last several weeks since I dropped that regen, and those were more situations of other people messing up, and thus me needing to heal avoidable damage, and not a lack of regen.

  2. #42
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    Re: Priests OOM in raids too fast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuq
    IMO, if you're barely touching your HoH or SF, you probably are geared a bit regen heavy. When I realized I was barely using mine, I dropped some regen for some more throughput, and I feel like it works out a lot better. Sure, I cut it a bit close sometimes, but that's what I save my mana pot. Even still, I think I've used only 1-2 mana pots in the last several weeks since I dropped that regen, and those were more situations of other people messing up, and thus me needing to heal avoidable damage, and not a lack of regen.
    I was regen heavy, now i think i have addressed it & i sometimes go oom, but usually as im either playing like a tool or not concentrating, when my concentration is there Ill do great. I admit Im not top of the healing charts or anything, I feel i do a good job in my role of raid healing & i only notice the charts when they're reported to the raid as i dont run any meters myself. Plus my officers have never complained (to myself personally) about my healing. Also luckily if i do need a mana pot Im an alchemist so i have the Endless Mana Potion.

  3. #43

    Re: Priests OOM in raids too fast?

    In 3.0 I was raided holy (well did it the last 4 years) and I had to use pots often (even when I nicely rotated cooldowns (spirit world glass on holy concentration (old) procs + inner focus staying out of FSR, shadowfiend, Hymn of Hope))
    When discipline was picking up in PvE I tried it, and it really worked well. No mana issues.

    But the last few weeks I've been raiding holy a fair few times too. And with the regen mechanics I never run oom, not even on hardmodes. However, holy is more about mana management then disc ofc.

    But if you have trouble and run oom, it could be you are undergeared, or the raid is undergeared, or it could be you are overhealing too much, but the best thing might be to learn how to rotated the mana returning cooldowns.

  4. #44

    Re: Priests OOM in raids too fast?

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    You can't see what disc does because Recount doesn't register it, brainiac. Over 60% of the discs' "heling" comes from shields which aren't registered as healing.
    Scrubs are meant to be scrubs apparently.
    there is a guessed absorbs addon for recount, very useful for wiping smirks off the faces of ppl hating on disc, inc absorbs im oftern top on healing

  5. #45

    Re: Priests OOM in raids too fast?

    When I'm Disc I use Inner Focus for the crit, Hymn for other group members and Fiend during BL for a tiny bit more DPS. I gem all spellpower except Int for good socket bonuses and I've switched to Ember Skyflare. Doesn't matter though, I still have to actively try to go OOM. I pretty much just channel the tanks if they take damage or not now to make sure 100% inspiration time and as many Aegis procs as possible... still don't go OOM if all I'm doing is healing/dispelling. I actually go OOM more in heroics because I run in and spam Holy Nova instead of 'healing'. It still takes quite a few pulls to go OOM though.

    Now.... as Holy I run low pretty often and have to manage cooldowns and spell selection a lot more. Then again, there's a lot more risk of going OOM as Disc when raid healing as well, so... yeah. AOE heals are expensive, who knew?

  6. #46

    Re: Priests OOM in raids too fast?

    disc priests are by far closest to pallys in single target
    As a pally I just want to say that there is no one I'd rather mt heal with more than a disc priest. Just saying... they're amazing - just because recount is too stupid to see that doesn't mean everyone else needs to be.

    You may want to watch recount as the fight is going to see how much effective healing the holy priest is doing before oom. If it is disproportionate then they may need to just chill and trust the other healers so that they can heal at a manageable pace. Also, if the people start dying once he chills then it's safe to say he might be carrying your healing corp. The last possibility is that he's bad and not using his regen abilities properly or gearing properly.

  7. #47

    Re: Priests OOM in raids too fast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuq
    And yes, Holy has worse regen and depends on it more than any other class. But you know what, I like it that way. If I had no risk of going OOM, why shouldn't I just be spamming PoH? There's no way to ever completely remove the OOM problem, which is precisely what makes Holy so enjoyable to me because it's not necessarily about maximizing HPS, but choosing the appropriate spells and knowing when to go all out and when to hold back. It's sweet to know that, if the crap hits the fan, I often have the tools to save a tank or counter some massive raid damage when other classes do not. Finally, it also means that Holy Priests necessarily scale very well with gear; if I can always make use of more regen and more throughput when other healers may only need the latter, each gear upgrade means just that much more and I can feel it.
    I will heartily agree with you on the sentiment - I like this part about holy's playstyle as well. You have the tools, but limited ammunition and must use them wisely. That is a good playstyle, and I think the holypriest is better for it. I too enjoy the mana management minigame.

    Problem #1:
    Holy don't really have any heals to save a maintank; GHeal is just an outdated inefficient heal and FHeal is mostly too weak. We do have GS though, which do play the part. But I sometimes wish I did have a spell which could be used to actually heal up a maintank. I feel really useless on Jaraxxus, where I'm forced to spam GHeal a lot; both on the tanks and the debuff. While the paladin does twice the output at three times the speed. I was basically killing my 10man heroic jaraxxus group yesterday due to not being able to pull faster single target heals; I just couldn't do my part fast enough with GHeal.

    Problem #2:
    Prayer of Healing is worse than a Chain Heal, dumb, costs 50% more mana and is slower. It used to be our "throw mana at a problem until it goes away" aoe spell, but druids and shammies can do the same without the mana throwing part. Our edge with this spell vanished in 3.2, and now it's just a stupidly expensive aoe heal quite on par with the competition in terms of power.

    While casting a PoH is extremely easy (only shammies have it easier), maintaining mana for PoH spam is an extremely heavy charge. I'm firmly believing that a the person pulling the harder job should get a better reward somehow. Druids get this in terms of increased HPS; a reward for maintaining multi hots on multiple people. It's not extremely hard, but it does take some skill.
    What do priests get in returns for the mana management minigame?
    Non-discipline 2006-2019, not supporting the company any longer. Also: fails.
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  8. #48

    Re: Priests OOM in raids too fast?

    What do priests get in returns for the mana management minigame?
    A pony is the rumor.

  9. #49

    Re: Priests OOM in raids too fast?

    Does this effect druids in anyway?!?! I don't want my druid to go oom fast too!

  10. #50

    Re: Priests OOM in raids too fast?

    You know, I see these posts about Holy priest mana issues a lot. Other than the first couple weeks of LK while I was still in Heroic gear healing Naxx. I never really had real mana issues. I'm not what you would call a conservative caster either. I spam spells an awful lot. The only times I can remember having trouble and needing to use everything I have to get mana back. Where on hard mode type encounters. I remember Sarth3D being a nightmare on my mana at first. Now, it's Ulduar/ToC hardmodes. Pretty much the only fights that are fun, because you do have to worry about Mana.

    I know it's not a popularly held belief anymore. But I've been sticking with it through all the changes since BC. Stack Spirit. It really does help. If an item doesn't have spirit on it.. It's very hard for me to pick it up. Gems : Spirit, Sp, Spirit/Intel. It honestly works pretty well. Go take a look at my armory. I have some pretty nice gear, true. But that's now. And because the people I raid with know I can hold my own and I'm worth gearing up.

    People can say what they want about it. But knowing my class pretty well got me through my Plagued and Rusted Protodrake achievments.


    If your having mana issues as Holy, it's worth at least a try for awhile.
    --

    I do agree with Danner that we could use a big fast heal for MT's.. Maybe something on a cool down or something. 1 min cool down, 100% chance crit for GH. Hmm. maybe to much..
    Science started out as a form of Magic.
    When Science is advanced enough Magic is dispelled.
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from Magic.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...istract/simple

  11. #51

    Re: Priests OOM in raids too fast?

    Quote Originally Posted by joostgressie
    Or you read his first post and see he said he didn't play a priest -.-
    Uh post the armory of the person your talking about. "Your armory" is in relation to the armory he is talking about not his own personal.
    When people say "pls" just because its shorter then "please", I feel totally justified to say "No" just because its shorter then "Yes".

  12. #52

    Re: Priests OOM in raids too fast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heywut
    (not sure about Disc because there rubbish in PvE imo)
    You're a very bad troll.

    On topic: as had been said by several people before me, Disc Priest is on par with Paladin for Tank healing and the synergy between the 2 when Tank healing is second to none.

    I can only hope you are trying to troll really badly, or you just odn't like Disc Priests. Either way you fail.

    I am Priest - Play Free Online Games

  13. #53

    Re: Priests OOM in raids too fast?

    I rerolled Disc 6 Month ago and i love it. No Manaprobs at all with 32k Buffed, so duno about holy with the spirit nerf, but the Holys in our Raid have no problems keeping their mana up
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  14. #54

    Re: Priests OOM in raids too fast?


  15. #55

    Re: Priests OOM in raids too fast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Danner
    Problem #1:
    Holy don't really have any heals to save a maintank; GHeal is just an outdated inefficient heal and FHeal is mostly too weak. We do have GS though, which do play the part. But I sometimes wish I did have a spell which could be used to actually heal up a maintank. I feel really useless on Jaraxxus, where I'm forced to spam GHeal a lot; both on the tanks and the debuff. While the paladin does twice the output at three times the speed. I was basically killing my 10man heroic jaraxxus group yesterday due to not being able to pull faster single target heals; I just couldn't do my part fast enough with GHeal.
    I agree, and this is something that I really think needs to be given some thought by Blizzard. They did a good job with the Discipline Tree to make the previously useless PWS nice, and the party-targettable PoH made that spell useful, but they've forgotten what should be a bread and butter spell for Holy considering how many talents there are for it. I wouldn't ask that it should be buffed to the point that we're MT healing gods, but with the current healing model, the speed trumps mana. I do have some ideas on how to fix it though, so it could be some combination of mana cost and speed improvements.

    Mana cost is a problem because, even if it is better HPM than Flash Heal (I don't really know off the top of my head), the difference is small enough that it isn't part of the equation. Part of the benefit of the longer cast should be more efficiency. Fortunately, this is easy to fix by either just flatly reducing the base cost, changing some talents (Improved Healing desperately needs to be updated), or adding/updating a glyph. Personally, I hope they go with talents and make Improved Healing really worth getting again.

    The speed is an even bigger part of the problem. It's just too slow such that anyone else will pretty much have the tank topped up before I can land the spell. It's only really useful with a Serendipity stack, and even then, I'm often saving that for an expected PoH. Again, this is easy to fix. They could obviously just reduce the base cast time or maybe improve Divine Fury or add a glyph. Personally, I don't think any of that is necessary. What I'd really like to see is an update to Serendipity such that casting Greater Heal only consumes one stack of Serendipity instead of the whole stack. That would fix the speed problem and fix the expectant PoH problem at the same time while actually making it interesting to heal the tank. Sure, a normal rotation on the MT would be FHx3 then alternate GH, FH, but it would allow us to maybe cast 2 or even 3 GHs in a row with some added Haste for some burst damage, or it would mean if I have a full stack and the tank needs a GH, I can cast it and still be ready for that PoH I'm saving it for.

    Either way, I completely agree that it needs to be fixed, and it would be nice if, when I do MT heal, I don't feel like I have to switch to Discipline to do it. Just a few small changes to GH are all it would take to make MT healing as Holy possible.

    Problem #2:
    Prayer of Healing is worse than a Chain Heal, dumb, costs 50% more mana and is slower. It used to be our "throw mana at a problem until it goes away" aoe spell, but druids and shammies can do the same without the mana throwing part. Our edge with this spell vanished in 3.2, and now it's just a stupidly expensive aoe heal quite on par with the competition in terms of power.

    While casting a PoH is extremely easy (only shammies have it easier), maintaining mana for PoH spam is an extremely heavy charge. I'm firmly believing that a the person pulling the harder job should get a better reward somehow. Druids get this in terms of increased HPS; a reward for maintaining multi hots on multiple people. It's not extremely hard, but it does take some skill.
    What do priests get in returns for the mana management minigame?
    Agreed here again too. I'd actually say that the nerf in 3.2 to PoH was probably needed because I could pretty much faceroll my way to the top of any raid damage intensive fight, but I think they went a little bit too far. A 15-20% nerf probably would have made a lot more sense and, while still being expensive, would probably be worth it more. If they really have to go with the 30% nerf, they could have at least thrown in a bit of a mana cost reduction as well. Even worse, PoH has other problems that CH doesn't, and that's in the fact that CH is smart and PoH is not. Oh, how frustrating is it when I start casting a PoH and then, right before it lands, 2-3 people get topped up with CH bounces and I pretty must wasted my time and mana. So, sure, casting PoH is easy in and of itself, but preparing the Serendipity stack, managing the massive mana cost, and choosing the target to some extent, add complexity that's difficult to quantify.

  16. #56

    Re: Priests OOM in raids too fast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heywut
    Yea but they arnt the best class for raid healing or MT healing, they only give the buff, imo the healing loss just for that buff isnt worth it when you can use another class who heals more effectivley.
    Disc is fabulous at MT healing. If you don't think so, you really need to do some research. Pw:S, Divine Aegis, Pain Suppression, POM, Penance (which is an awesome heal) and flash heal for quick top offs when Penance is on CD. We always raid with one. Disc is not about the amount of healing done but rather mitigating and absorbing damage. They might not be high on the healing metres but that isn't at all a reflection of the spec not being a bonified healing spec.

  17. #57

    Re: Priests OOM in raids too fast?

    I hate the word imba.

    wat

  18. #58

    Re: Priests OOM in raids too fast?

    Guess we need to convince Blizzard, Zeuq! ^^

    Anyway, Fheal and GHeal have mostly identical HPM and HPS. Improved Healing will put GHeal ahead in the HPM game, but the glyph of flash heal closes up that gap almost instantly. The remaining difference is inconsequential because GHeal always overheals for more than flash heal. I openly call FHeal the most cost efficient spell in the priest arsenal due to this. And you know there is something seriously wrong when the "expensive fast heal" wins on mana efficiency.

    In terms of HPS, fheal and gheal are mostly identical at 0 spellpower, but Gheal scales better with spellpower - especially with 5/5 empowered healing. But again, overhealing usually eats up any advantage gheal offers. It's only if the tank is seriously low that GHeal wins. But in modern content, you don't let the tank remain seriously low for 2.5 seconds. So you rely on getting in a lucky hit. Which is a horrible way to utilize a holypriest.

    Or you need a gimmick like the jaraxxus debuff where overhealing doesn't matter. Unless this occurs, GHeal is simply subpar. Which is why noone uses it anyway

    Non-discipline 2006-2019, not supporting the company any longer. Also: fails.
    MMO Champion Mafia Games - The outlet for Chronic Backstabbing Disorder. [ Join the Fun | Countdown | Rolecard Builder MkII ]

  19. #59

    Re: Priests OOM in raids too fast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skriblz
    lolthread is lol

  20. #60

    Re: Priests OOM in raids too fast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadas
    A pony is the rumor.
    The pony is in beta. We might see it on PTR "soon".
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
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