No Lock lovin'

[DreamOfTheRood]

If I had to make a guess, I would say that the dev team is spending an absolute minimum of time on Warlock class changes. Anything they do to change the class' talents or abilities is going to be completely obliterated in Cataclysm, and we don't have any issues that are critical enough to really need screwing about with. We're good, and we'll remain good until Cataclysm, and then we'll get to find out how to play Warlocks again.

[Scorage]

I will be starting a thread this week on the topic of Demonology and Demonic Pact.

1) You cannot justify leaving Demonic Pact in this state as Icecrown level gear will force one warlock per raid to be demonology for the buffs. In Icecrown we can safely assume that Demonic pact warlocks will be able to hit 3000+ spell power self buffed (not even flasked), thus they immediately replace Totem of Wrath due to the size of the buff being what it is.

2) Demonology's damage is pitiful and needs to be buffed.

3) The buff and Demonic Pact ~cannot~ coexist, otherwise that one warlock per raid will gladly do it, rather than begrudgingly.


Solution: Make Demonic Pact scale poorly and buff filler damage. For example, 5% of Spell Power + 130. Make Decimation buff Incinerate Damage by 3/6/9% and Demonic Pact increase Shadow Bolt damage by 2/4/6/8/10%.



Thoughts? I will be posting this on the Damage Dealing forums.

3000 spellpower unflasked? Are you crazy, I'm sitting on 2945 on Lifetap glyph, I got 2 245 lvl items, and a 550 SP sword. Not to mention only 1 of my trinkets give spellpower, I got Tailor-JC so there is also a room for improvement for another static 48 spellpower, and one last thing.

I'm destro. Icecrown will easily get me 3500 in Demo, maybe 3750, if I don't get that by the end of Coliseum that is. (Quick Math: 150 Spellpower trinket on the spot of my Abyssal Rune and a 700 ish iVL 258 Weapon. Oh, already 3300, with only 2 items changed, self buffed Life Tap glyph. Better make Icecrown gear have me reach 4000 then.)

[Arganis]

I wish Demo would get some kind of perma Meta than maybe it wouldn't be so lame.

^ Btw love your avatar.

[pieki]

3000 spellpower unflasked? Are you crazy, I'm sitting on 2945 on Lifetap glyph, I got 2 245 lvl items, and a 550 SP sword. Not to mention only 1 of my trinkets give spellpower, I got Tailor-JC so there is also a room for improvement for another static 48 spellpower, and one last thing.

I'm destro. Icecrown will easily get me 3500 in Demo, maybe 3750, if I don't get that by the end of Coliseum that is. (Quick Math: 150 Spellpower trinket on the spot of my Abyssal Rune and a 700 ish iVL 258 Weapon. Oh, already 3300, with only 2 items changed, self buffed Life Tap glyph. Better make Icecrown gear have me reach 4000 then.)

then add in the imp scaling from a deep demo whith some flasks/totems(/cancel arua ftw!)/foodbuffs etc and reaching about 5k sp in a 25 man dont sound like going to jupiter :P

and yes thay do need to change this before it gets out of hand and you cant do hard mode progression whith out a demo lock (no that i think demo locks got no place in 25mans but dont feel like it shod be forced) kind of like when you wanner do a hardmode whith out a shaman in the raid...

[Jona]

Seems like warlocks won’t have much of a change this next patch.

THANK. GOD.

I'm sick and tired of changes every friggin' week. It's about time they left us the fuck alone!!

[Jona]

1) You cannot justify leaving Demonic Pact in this state as Icecrown level gear will force one warlock per raid to be demonology for the buffs. In Icecrown we can safely assume that Demonic pact warlocks will be able to hit 3000+ spell power self buffed (not even flasked), thus they immediately replace Totem of Wrath due to the size of the buff being what it is.

Stepping out of heroic gear puts you at around 2.5k with Fel Armor, not including Life Tap and in a Destro spec. Icecrown gear is going to put people at 4k spellpower base, with trinkets that proc for +1k SP. It will be the golden age of damage dealing before Cataclysm (where they will tone everything down at level 85 and change SP coefficients at that level or some such nonsense, or lower the ratios of crit/haste/hit so much that you can't stack SP because so much of the other stats are needed for you to actually do damage).

[BadBadBad]

Insta Soulfire has 30 sec CD by Soul Burn, you can only do it in combat 3 times, and I bet the soul shards will probably be needed to save your own ass so that uber leet burst becomes a hard choice to make.

They say maybe Demo can get a 4th shard, so I guess that's the light for Demo there.

And Demo's utility? 5 Points for something better than Ele Sham totem? Nice, but its too weak. It's a good raid utility, but it could have had like "Your shadow and fire spells also do 5% more damage" on it, so Demo had a little more damage and scaling buff so it would be better in PvE.

sinsce when we have inta Soul fire in destro ?? dont tell me this is new expansion shit.. i ddnt read new expansion stuff cuz its ridiclulous.. like the faces of whom read it ^^

[cloud_strife]

it is not a rumor... blizzard announced in blizcon that all spells that required soul shards wont require any more.
Instead we get a new core spell (maybe at level 10 or something) that works similar the old amplify curse if you remember.
This spell will react differently when combined with different spells.
And a few examples were :
soul burn +

+soul fire = instant soul fire
+fear = instant fear
+ summon demon = instant summon demon
+death coil= more horror effect and more healing recieved
and the list does not stop here but we dont know how it will react with other spells we have yet...

and we re not ridiculous for reading an official announcement about our class...

[Galith]

i ddnt read new expansion stuff cuz its ridiclulous.. like the faces of whom read it ^^

Your name suites you.

[DaKung]

My Destro spec brings all the boys to the yard and damn right it's better then demo, damn right it's better then affliction I can teach you but I have to raid.

[gherkin]

My Destro spec brings all the boys to the yard and damn right it's better then demo, damn right it's better then affliction I can teach you but I have to raid.

Demonic Pact brings the boys to the yard
and they're like "Wanna kill Yogg Saron?"
You're damn right, I'll kill Yogg Saron
I'll buff you, my buffs so large.

[Sanoku]

3000 spellpower unflasked? Are you crazy, I'm sitting on 2945 on Lifetap glyph, I got 2 245 lvl items, and a 550 SP sword. Not to mention only 1 of my trinkets give spellpower, I got Tailor-JC so there is also a room for improvement for another static 48 spellpower, and one last thing.

I'm destro. Icecrown will easily get me 3500 in Demo, maybe 3750, if I don't get that by the end of Coliseum that is. (Quick Math: 150 Spellpower trinket on the spot of my Abyssal Rune and a 700 ish iVL 258 Weapon. Oh, already 3300, with only 2 items changed, self buffed Life Tap glyph. Better make Icecrown gear have me reach 4000 then.)

Uh.... we're far from crazy sir.

With Fel Armor on im at about 3100 (consider my trinkets of Illustration and Eye of the Broodmother that are up full time regardless so it counts) and when I hit life tap I go to about 3300. These numbers are me as destro FYI not demo. As demo my numbers are even higher.

So if you wanna tell me that number is hard to obtain you are wrong.

When I was demo I was pushing 5k spell power as it was.

This is why when Icecrown comes out Demonic Pact is going to be a vital raid buff. You can't deny it.

You also probably do not take into account that when you are demo you receive 12% of your pet's stam+int as spell power as well so any number you get as destro will be way higher as demo anyway.

Your pet's hp and int will go up when you alone are buffed (due to scaling) and then when he HIMSELF gets buffed it goes even higher. So your spell power will be very high regardless.

DP > Shammy totem.

[Tritone496]

None of this matters anyway peeps - we are gettin owned by melee dps in raids. Dont believe me go check out paragons dps screenie - i rest my case.

[gherkin]

None of this matters anyway peeps - we are gettin owned by melee dps in raids. Dont believe me go check out paragons dps screenie - i rest my case.

Hard Mode TOC is melee friendly.

Beasts - Snobolds don't affect their dps, casters have to run them into range, no fire to run out of. Rest are evenly split.
Jaraxxus - Don't have to chase Infernals. Tank can bring Jaraxxus with them to portals to minimize dps downtime.
Faction Champions - Melee doesn't wear cloth, and doesn't have to worry quite as much if focused by the Rogue or Warrior or Hunter.
Twins - Generally, they're tanked near an opposite color portal to ensure fast switches for melee. Casters generally have to run.
Anub - Don't have to worry about orbs and have adds brought to them.

Just so we're clear, its not caster unfriendly either.

[Serarus]

Uh.... we're far from crazy sir.

With Fel Armor on im at about 3100 (consider my trinkets of Illustration and Eye of the Broodmother that are up full time regardless so it counts) and when I hit life tap I go to about 3300. These numbers are me as destro FYI not demo. As demo my numbers are even higher.

So if you wanna tell me that number is hard to obtain you are wrong.

When I was demo I was pushing 5k spell power as it was.

This is why when Icecrown comes out Demonic Pact is going to be a vital raid buff. You can't deny it.

You also probably do not take into account that when you are demo you receive 12% of your pet's stam+int as spell power as well so any number you get as destro will be way higher as demo anyway.

Your pet's hp and int will go up when you alone are buffed (due to scaling) and then when he HIMSELF gets buffed it goes even higher. So your spell power will be very high regardless.

DP > Shammy totem.

DP is not really better than the shamans totem after all demo have too put 4 more points into it and its base off of the pet's crits meaning you can not all ways count on it being up

[aztek]

Not really better?

I have 3200 SP with fel armor, without lifetap (669 UB spirit) and IotDS (200 sp.) That's with destro spec, with demon, I'm sitting at 40xx SP with fully stacked (dp lifetap and dragonsoul.) (Armory been posted already, check it - might not have felarmor up so I'm at 2800ish.)

My DP just made your Wrath totem cry, and I'm not even buffed yet. And I am far from BiS ToC gear (not even optimised for demo.) This is one of the reason they wanna get wrath and DP in line (most likely with a simply DP nerf to a fix SP, they wont let wrath scale with any of shaman stats since they dont have felarmor to boost their SP in 2 way, warlocks still would outplay elementals.)

Parses showed a massive 95%+ uptime back from t8 times, now with the t9 bonus it should be even 'more'.

[ka0t1k]

lol, it's sad that people want everything to be balanced...i'm waiting to be able to heal as shadow on my priest...i wonder when blizzard will start doing that...

[Notnicebb]

lol, it's sad that people want everything to be balanced...i'm waiting to be able to heal as shadow on my priest...i wonder when blizzard will start doing that...

Well as long as Blizztard focuses on Rogues and Dk's probably never.

Same thing with us locks pvp survivability and our limp ass Demo tree.

[gherkin]

I have 3200 SP with fel armor, without lifetap (669 UB spirit) and IotDS (200 sp.) That's with destro spec, with demon, I'm sitting at 40xx SP with fully stacked (dp lifetap and dragonsoul.) (Armory been posted already, check it - might not have felarmor up so I'm at 2800ish.)

Armory now filters all buffs off your character. FYI.

My DP just made your Wrath totem cry, and I'm not even buffed yet. And I am far from BiS ToC gear (not even optimised for demo.) This is one of the reason they wanna get wrath and DP in line (most likely with a simply DP nerf to a fix SP, they wont let wrath scale with any of shaman stats since they dont have felarmor to boost their SP in 2 way, warlocks still would outplay elementals.)

Parses showed a massive 95%+ uptime back from t8 times, now with the t9 bonus it should be even 'more'.

99.8% with T9. Basically 100%.


It looks like the plan for T9 content will be to leave as is, and rebalance Demonic Pact for Icecrown while buffing Demonology builds. How, i do not know, but thats the result of my (and Strawberry's) posts.

[Inshabel]

I will be starting a thread this week on the topic of Demonology and Demonic Pact.

1) You cannot justify leaving Demonic Pact in this state as Icecrown level gear will force one warlock per raid to be demonology for the buffs. In Icecrown we can safely assume that Demonic pact warlocks will be able to hit 3000+ spell power self buffed (not even flasked), thus they immediately replace Totem of Wrath due to the size of the buff being what it is.

2) Demonology's damage is pitiful and needs to be buffed.

3) The buff and Demonic Pact ~cannot~ coexist, otherwise that one warlock per raid will gladly do it, rather than begrudgingly.


Solution: Make Demonic Pact scale poorly and buff filler damage. For example, 5% of Spell Power + 130. Make Decimation buff Incinerate Damage by 3/6/9% and Demonic Pact increase Shadow Bolt damage by 2/4/6/8/10%.



Thoughts? I will be posting this on the Damage Dealing forums.

I like your ideas about buffing the damage, but what other class provides a buff that scales with gear? It's underpowered at starter gear levels but it's the mother of all caster buffs at higher gear levels, so imo it would be best to just give it a static value on par with the totem and buff Demo's damage in the way you suggested.