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  1. #1

    Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

    /rant
    The fact that a mortal strike exists, means that Blizzard has to balance healing around it. If you don't have that mortal strike in your team, you will always be second rate. If Blizzard would just remove Mortal Strike from every class that has one and actually fix the problem, healing, then they can shove their 3's CC stacking teams down my throat.

    I decided that I should do a tally of the teams that I fought over these past two weeks, just so I had hard proof in front of me so I could believe it myself.

    Out of my 225 3's games:

    ~60% had a Rogue
    ~40% had a Mage
    ~70% had a Priest (Disc)

    I am no fool;Blizzard, or Blizzard's owner Vivendi, has an agenda that they want to follow. They want to make money and they have all the right to make this game as unplayable as they can for me if they make more money pleasing someone else.

    I fought more of Rogues, Mages, and Priests than I did of all other classes combined. Better put #Rogues>Sum of all other classes. #Priests>Sum of all other classes etc.

    OT: Dragon Age: Origins looks amazing

    Since this is in the paladin forums I have to make a point: ~5% of the teams I faced had a Ret paladin in them. Probably because we are so OP.
    /rant

  2. #2
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Benedictous
    Since this is in the paladin forums I have to make a point: ~5% of the teams I faced had a Ret paladin in them. Probably because we are so OP.
    I shouldnt feed the trolls, but: Maybe its because we lack offensive utility 58 seconds of every minute.

  3. #3

    Re: Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Benedictous
    If Blizzard would just remove Mortal Strike from every class that has one and actually fix the problem, healing, then they can shove their 3's CC stacking teams down my throat.
    Healing can never be balanced as long as their PvE philosophies remain the same.

    Without Mortal Strike, or a similar healing debuff, you must drastically outnumber any geared healer to kill them.

    It's not fun having picked the wrong class/spec and being punished for it. The idea that no one should kill a healer 1v1 either needs to be abolished or reinstated in full effect, as there are a handful who can, and a handful who cannot. Likewise however, healers should not be able to kill anything 1v1 if Blizzard's philosophy is to remain that they cannot be killed 1v1. With the offensive numbers that Restoration Druids (and to a similar effect, Restoration Shamans and Discipline Priests) can put out, regardless of the fact that they are a healer, a few classes are not only in the 'you can't kill healers' boat, but are also in the 'healers can kill you' category. Anything without a no-cooldown self-heal comes to mind.

    Mortal Strike isn't going anywhere, and it will continue to be mandatory until either Resilience or the PvP flag reduces incoming healing. Without it, healers are (pun alert) immortal. With it, healers are become killable once again.

    While I'm on the tangent, PvP is in a messed up place right now anyways. Blizzard didn't want anyone to be able to kill a geared Healer with full Mana. For a few classes that lack burst, or interrupts, or endless amounts of crowd control, your ONLY hope to kill a healer is to make them go OOM, or catch them making a chain of unfortunate mistakes. Yet, with regeneration and healing output getting more and more powerful, it's very common to see some healers never dip below 50% mana. And even if, for any reason, they do, Blizzard has seen it fit to give every healing class some kind of regeneration cooldown on top of their passive regenerations.

    The REAL problem is when it takes 3 minutes to draw out a 2-minute cooldown, but I digress.

    In short, against classes that Heal, Mortal Strike is outstanding. It effectively doubles incoming damage, while putting more pressure on mana, and forcing a healer to spend more time healing.

    Until every class can kill a healer in a respectable timeframe, it will continue to be the deciding factor in the fate of healers.

  4. #4

    Re: Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

    Was going to /agree with "remove MS, create healing reduction for PvP flags"... but PvP is broken in WoW, and I dont expect it to be fixed.

    Thanks for 2 seasons of PvP on my healing paladin as Prot Bliz, time to gear up my druid.

  5. #5

    Re: Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Benedictous
    /rant


    Since this is in the paladin forums I have to make a point: ~5% of the teams I faced had a Ret paladin in them. Probably because we are so OP.
    /rant
    considering you have to take into account every talent tree of every class when comparing stats like that:

    fire mages are even lower, so are fury warriors and balance druids. They have just as much right to be viable as retri. SOme specs will ALWAYS be alittle lower then other.
    meeting a retripala 1 out of 20 games is better then never.

    The low representation doesn't mean it's a bad spec. People might have rerolled because they don't like the playstyle.
    Being retri doesn't give you any more right to be viable then every other spec in the game. Just saying:P

    Though it could be better, having 5% is not really that bad. Every spec is actually viable to some degree, depending on the bracket. SOme are just better and easier, and people tend to roll the easiest way. I roll my own way "elemental" regardless of how good the class is. I've been elemental /resto ever since the start of tbc, and I was arms warrior through season 5.

    Stop the bitching and suck it up. Be glad you don't play a class that can afk to 3000 rating, and enjoy the challenge
    Meh

  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire Mightlol's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

    Ret pally need something like Mortal Strike OR a Counterspell like ( but it would be of us something that looks like a DK ) AND a snare. 15% speed ? Yes, but rogues have it too, and they have snare AND ms AND kick.


    Warrior is overpowered too because he has all the things i said, and he can resist a lot better than a rogue ( yes, rogues are very easy to kill ). That's all. Dk and Retpally aren't fine. They burst like a warrior, but they don't have MS.
    At least, DK have a FUCKING ANTI-MAGIC ZONE and Violation and a kind of Divine shield with Ams... Retpally can not be fine in 2s untill we have a ms Or a kick AND a snare.

  7. #7

    Re: Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Benedictous
    /rant

    Out of my 225 3's games:

    ~60% had a Rogue
    ~40% had a Mage
    ~70% had a Priest (Disc)

    /rant
    Stopped reading there. True fail troll. Learn to add.
    Quote Originally Posted by General_Typhus View Post
    Hi i am any class in the game. To beat me spam icelance and then talk about how skilled you are when the 20k crits roll in.

  8. #8

    Re: Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

    The latest blizzcon said that if retri paladins would receive a mortal strike ability then they would have to reduce the class´self healing and survivability to make it more balanced, which means you will later whine about not being able to survive or heal yourself in combat
    "I bring light where there is darkness. Hope where there is despair. Judgement where there is injustice. I AM PALADIN!"

  9. #9

    Re: Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Skivoh
    Stopped reading there. True fail troll. Learn to add.
    How to explain, hmmmz...

    60% of the 225 games he played had a rogue in, the other team mates can be a 2 of any 10 classes.

    er.. lol imagine playing 10 games, you see 5 RMP teams, that's:

    50% had a rogue
    50% had a mage
    50% had a priest

    Hope that clears it up, lol.

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Mightlol's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Snorri
    The latest blizzcon said that if retri paladins would receive a mortal strike ability then they would have to reduce the class´self healing and survivability to make it more balanced, which means you will later whine about not being able to survive or heal yourself in combat

    For me, it isnt important in arena. Retri doesnt heal like a real healer, yes he can save his mate from death during their healer is cc'd, but his main role is still DPS. It can be boring in battlegrounds, but i think it doesnt matter

    I really hate when a healer come on his mount and save the guy that im going to kill, who get his whole life with one pennance / holy shock crit & flash of light instant cast / whatever

  11. #11

    Re: Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

    Going as far as saying that mortal strike is the problem, is in my oppinion wrong. It has become mandatory in every aspect of PVP to have a "reduced healing effect" on your opponant if he he is a healer / hybrid healing class, of any kind.

    with that said i wanna point out that you would never be able to make a Boss in PVE that hits sufficient dmg if u simply remove all "reduced healing" effects and cut the healing in half, it it simply not doable to balance PVE and PVP that way.

    But configuring BG's and Arena's to reduce healing in some way would prolly take care of some of the problems. even thou that would also require that thoose same abilities that reduces healing would have to be removed or "banned" (no wound poison, mortal strike etc. in BG's & Arenas). and here comes up another problem then u need to revamp alot of the talents of the listed classes...

    wtf i could keep writting, i see your problem but it is hard to fix, i'm just gonna keep wearing: ½ PVE gear & ½PVP gear in BG's that gets me along fine

  12. #12

    Re: Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Skivoh
    Stopped reading there. True fail troll. Learn to add.
    Wow. Really? You, sir, fail at math. And fail at making other people look fail.
    <WHAR LEWTS PLZ HALp>
    I'm bitter by default. Don't take it personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Either give an argument, or be automatically wrong. Your choice.

  13. #13

    Re: Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Skivoh
    Stopped reading there. True fail troll. Learn to add.

    Damn, you are an idiot :
    Signature not acceptable (e.g. too large), read http://www.mmo-champion.com/general-discussions-22/important-signatures/ - Regards, Olison

  14. #14

    Re: Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

    Idd, i fail and i admit it :P Happy now?
    Quote Originally Posted by General_Typhus View Post
    Hi i am any class in the game. To beat me spam icelance and then talk about how skilled you are when the 20k crits roll in.

  15. #15

    Re: Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

    OP is saying what i have been saying for years. /applause

    WoW has turned into an arms race, that has accelerated healing and damage. Caused classes to have too many CC's and cooldowns
    and unbalanced many, many things. I wholeheartedly agree that MS is not necessary, although a nerf to say... 20% would suit me fine.

    Healing needs to be as fast as a dps can dps, and dps needs to be slower.

    You may think that if healers can only heal as fast as a dps can do damage that he couldnt keep his team up, but thats just the problem. A healer shouldnt have to OOm in order to be killed. AoE heals can keep the groups life up while he focuses on the person being damaged.

    Go ahead and flame all you want. But I've already seen the proof that this will work.

    I love wow, but the pvp in warhammer online is so FUCKING BALANCED, it makes me want to burn my world of warcraft CDs
    Tanks have a purpose in holding a line. Healers arent OP. There is so much rock paper scizzors its just tons of fun.

    Classes in warhammer are divided into. Melee dps, healers, Tanks, ranged dps, and casters.

    Casters beat tanks, who beat melee and ranged dps, who kill casters and ranged dps. You just focus on killing who you are good at, with tanks up front getting healed.

    The only thing wow lacks to be this awesome, is model collision, which will never be implemented T_T.

  16. #16

    Re: Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

    Lack of MS is wrecking ret in 2v2 arena's. I swear it won't let me buy shoulders even though I have the rating for it. I get the error message "You do not have MS" and then my shoulder and weapon options don't work.

    This sucks as 2v2's are an entirely legitimate gametype.

  17. #17

    Re: Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Rifee

    fire mages are even lower, so are fury warriors and balance druids. They have just as much right to be viable as retri. SOme specs will ALWAYS be alittle lower then other.
    meeting a retripala 1 out of 20 games is better then never.
    Fire mages and fury warriors don't, and here's why. Both of these classes still have a viable DPS spec. If they acquired dps gear for PvP, then they'll still be able to use it in a viable spec. When ret gets nerfed and is no longer viable, then ret pallys have to acquire a completely new set of gear to play a holy spec. I would like to see some more pvp buffs for balance, but even the resto and balance gear is pretty similar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinshiva
    The fact remains that you FUCKING FAIL.

  18. #18

    Re: Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Mightlol
    Ret pally need something like Mortal Strike OR a Counterspell like ( but it would be of us something that looks like a DK ) AND a snare. 15% speed ? Yes, but rogues have it too, and they have snare AND ms AND kick.


    Warrior is overpowered too because he has all the things i said, and he can resist a lot better than a rogue ( yes, rogues are very easy to kill ). That's all. Dk and Retpally aren't fine. They burst like a warrior, but they don't have MS.
    At least, DK have a FUCKING ANTI-MAGIC ZONE and Violation and a kind of Divine shield with Ams... Retpally can not be fine in 2s untill we have a ms Or a kick AND a snare.

    bullshit, rogues have ms kick and snare, yeah, but theyre not giving their mates meleebubble and heal them, or buffing them kings, or switch to 1h+shield+devo aura...
    pure class, mr. hybrid-wants-it-all!
    warriors also doing almost 70% of a lets say DK's dmg in pvp environment, so yeah, pretty op paired with their strong ms effect.
    also i have to make clear, warriors, are instagib without shieldwall/counterattack ready, rogues compared with a healer or dps'r who brings some crowd control, are nearly untouchable due to their massive amount of cooldowns.
    havent read such a fucking bullcrap for a while

  19. #19
    Bloodsail Admiral Mortisia's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Communist_Llama
    OP is saying what i have been saying for years. /applause

    WoW has turned into an arms race, that has accelerated healing and damage. Caused classes to have too many CC's and cooldowns
    and unbalanced many, many things. I wholeheartedly agree that MS is not necessary, although a nerf to say... 20% would suit me fine.

    Healing needs to be as fast as a dps can dps, and dps needs to be slower.

    You may think that if healers can only heal as fast as a dps can do damage that he couldnt keep his team up, but thats just the problem. A healer shouldnt have to OOm in order to be killed. AoE heals can keep the groups life up while he focuses on the person being damaged.

    Go ahead and flame all you want. But I've already seen the proof that this will work.

    I love wow, but the pvp in warhammer online is so FUCKING BALANCED, it makes me want to burn my world of warcraft CDs
    Tanks have a purpose in holding a line. Healers arent OP. There is so much rock paper scizzors its just tons of fun.

    Classes in warhammer are divided into. Melee dps, healers, Tanks, ranged dps, and casters.

    Casters beat tanks, who beat melee and ranged dps, who kill casters and ranged dps. You just focus on killing who you are good at, with tanks up front getting healed.

    The only thing wow lacks to be this awesome, is model collision, which will never be implemented T_T.
    Yeah we all wanna play Runescape again, now go and play your Gayhammer.

    "Dude, why are you dead again?" "Because I'm raid-leading, doh..."
    Mess with the best, die like the rest...
    >>>Goes by name Samyaza<<<

  20. #20
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

    Quote Originally Posted by mikka
    bullshit, rogues have ms kick and snare, yeah, but theyre not giving their mates meleebubble
    Only one at a time

    Quote Originally Posted by mikka
    and heal them
    For next to nothing while we OOM- You know how hard it is to interrupt a 3 second cast time anyhow?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikka
    or buffing them kings, or switch to 1h+shield+devo aura...
    If you're switching to a 1h and bunker then something is wrong- Armor means next to nothing in PvP to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikka
    also i have to make clear, warriors, are instagib without shieldwall/counterattack ready, rogues compared with a healer or dps'r who brings some crowd control, are nearly untouchable due to their massive amount of cooldowns.
    Warriors have decent ways to keep themselves up, but PvP isn't balanced around 1v1 to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikka
    havent read such a fucking bullcrap for a while
    Well said about your own post :P

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