Mortal Strike is the problem, not the solution

[gobtol]

bullshit, rogues have ms kick and snare, yeah, but theyre not giving their mates meleebubble and heal them, or buffing them kings, or switch to 1h+shield+devo aura...
pure class, mr. hybrid-wants-it-all!
warriors also doing almost 70% of a lets say DK's dmg in pvp environment, so yeah, pretty op paired with their strong ms effect.
also i have to make clear, warriors, are instagib without shieldwall/counterattack ready, rogues compared with a healer or dps'r who brings some crowd control, are nearly untouchable due to their massive amount of cooldowns.
havent read such a fucking bullcrap for a while

The only thing Hand of Protection is good for any more is saving someone from a rogue or feral druid. Warriors can take it away, shamans can purge it, and dks and hunters have enough magic damage to not care. Between snares, stuns, and interrupts, rogues are way better at keeping teammates alive than a ret paladin is. All the ret tools to save people are on long cooldowns and easily dispelled. We don't want all the tools a rogue or warrior has, but it would be nice to have a snare OR a interrupt OR a distance closer. Ret paladins are still the only melee class without a snare, and please don't bring up Pursuit of Justice. Feral druids get to be 30% faster and a snare and a distance closer, Enhancement shamans are 40% faster with instant ghost wolf, plus wolf sprint plus multiple snares. Rogues, warriors and dks also have reliable snares and distance closing abilities.

[mikka]

ONE meleebubble is usually enough.
ever played on like 2.2+ ? /target [yourhealer] /cast flash of light
use your freakin aow proccs to instaheal (for a decent amount) your mate.
besides defensive dispell.
also armor DOES mean sth in pvp, every tiny bit of absorbed physical dmg in terms of "crap my healer takes a cc chain, ill eat the shit"
and no, warriors are more dependent on their healer as many other classes, for ex rogue or ret, so, after theyve used frenzied reg/counterattack and shieldwall, theyrepretty much down.
anyways, even if you wont use the whole spectrum of a paladins arsenal, the fact that you COULD HealTankWTFDispellBubbleFreedomHammer your target, justifies no MS effect (not even 20%) or any interupt. a gap closer in a scenario where almost every class has 108% or 115% runspeed is more likely to be given to that class imho.

[Prentice]

warriors also doing almost 70% of a lets say DK's dmg in pvp environment, so yeah, pretty op paired with their strong ms effect.

Consider this for a second. Lets say that warriors do 70% of the damage of a DK or Ret (LOAD OF CRAP, BTW!!). If I am attacking you as a ret while you receive heals, your healer will last for days and so will you. If you attack me with your MS while I am receiving heals, my healer will OOM quickly while I am still less than full HP.

You suggesting that warriors do less damage almost sounds like a good idea because of the OPness of MS. I think that all MS capable classes should have their damage reduced by 50% when they have an MS effect active on someone. Sound fair to you?? Seeing as I have to do more than double the amount of damage to achieve the same success as you, that sounds completely fair to me.

[Zophiel]

Lack of MS is wrecking ret in 2v2 arena's. I swear it won't let me buy shoulders even though I have the rating for it. I get the error message "You do not have MS" and then my shoulder and weapon options don't work.

This sucks as 2v2's are an entirely legitimate gametype.

•Beginning with season 7, players will no longer have access to the newest season's weapons or shoulder armor and will not qualify for the Gladiator title/rewards with ratings from the 2v2 bracket alone. Ratings obtained through 3v3 and 5v5 game play will be required for these rewards, while the rest of the newest season's items will remain available to players in all brackets (standard rating restrictions still apply).

You eyesight would be good enough to read patch notes if you weren't faceplanting yourself through 2's as Retrigay.

[Prentice]

•Beginning with season 7, players will no longer have access to the newest season's weapons or shoulder armor and will not qualify for the Gladiator title/rewards with ratings from the 2v2 bracket alone. Ratings obtained through 3v3 and 5v5 game play will be required for these rewards, while the rest of the newest season's items will remain available to players in all brackets (standard rating restrictions still apply).

You eyesight would be good enough to read patch notes if you weren't faceplanting yourself through 2's as Retrigay.

Way to fail at taking the joke. So pro.

[Zophiel]

Consider this for a second. Lets say that warriors do 70% of the damage of a DK or Ret (LOAD OF CRAP, BTW!!). If I am attacking you as a ret while you receive heals, your healer will last for days and so will you. If you attack me with your MS while I am receiving heals, my healer will OOM quickly while I am still less than full HP.

You suggesting that warriors do less damage almost sounds like a good idea because of the OPness of MS. I think that all MS capable classes should have their damage reduced by 50% when they have an MS effect active on someone. Sound fair to you?? Seeing as I have to do more than double the amount of damage to achieve the same success as you, that sounds completely fair to me.

I have a suggestion, couple yourself with an MS class and focus on the same target. You already have massive upfront damage anyway with a shit ton of utility. Stop trying to act like your gimp just because you can't have someone else's candy and start sharing. MS has been a staple ability for Warriors for a long time until Blizzard started to give it to everyone. PvP isnt going to be balanced for a long time to come as long as the devs that have been doing it keeps on doing it but the solution isn't give every class every ability that everybody else has. My suggestion if you still arent happy is to roll another class or suck it up and pvp with an MS class.

[mikka]

indeed, id pretend that everyone was aware of the idea of "a class with ms deals 50% of the dmg a non ms class can deal"
so yeah, thats the point, warriors deal out way too much dmg.
doesnt justify any pummel/kick/mindfreeze equivalent or mortal strike effect.
im receiving shitloads of burst from any decent ret with lets presume the options any rogue or dk has to avoid/mitigate a rets dmg output, getting on top of that an mortal strike like healing debuff placed on me, i would say thats overpowered, what are you going to aim for in like 2 month, offensive dispell cause shamans have it too and the last scrub of your player pool didnt got his 2.200 3on3 achievement?
i absolutely agree that retri paladins DO need some overhaul (playing paladin myself), a secondary effect on cs, a real gap closer, and/or maybe some overpower/relentless assault like ability, which need to be used while the target is casting, but i disagree that a simple MS or pummel is the solution. id go so far and call people who demand a ms for a class which is capable of so many things in this game fanciless

[Nd]

Let's just give everyone MS and call it a day. Oh and make it so it doesn't need to be applied, but rather it's an aura that has a 1000 yard range.

[Zophiel]

Way to fail at taking the joke. So pro.

Very pro to cry about another class' ability instead of trying to overcome it on your own terms with the utilities and abilities you already have.

[Prentice]

I have a suggestion, couple yourself with an MS class and focus on the same target. You already have massive upfront damage anyway with a shit ton of utility. Stop trying to act like your gimp just because you can't have someone else's candy and start sharing. MS has been a staple ability for Warriors for a long time until Blizzard started to give it to everyone. PvP isnt going to be balanced for a long time to come as long as the devs that have been doing it keeps on doing it but the solution isn't give every class every ability that everybody else has. My suggestion if you still arent happy is to roll another class or suck it up and pvp with an MS class.

You clearly need to L2Read. I never asked for MS. I was talking to the previous poster about the flip side of not having it. I am completely fine without it. Reading comprehension would have actually allowed you to arrive at the same conclusion and not make such a ridiculous massive assumption.

Very pro to cry about another class' ability instead of trying to overcome it on your own terms with the utilities and abilities you already have.

Baddy troll. Continue to flounder.

I don't want MS because I have no desire to play a rogue, hunter, or warrior. Its all about the play style.

[Zophiel]

You suggesting that warriors do less damage almost sounds like a good idea because of the OPness of MS. I think that all MS capable classes should have their damage reduced by 50% when they have an MS effect active on someone. Sound fair to you?? Seeing as I have to do more than double the amount of damage to achieve the same success as you, that sounds completely fair to me.

Yes, your right I made an assumption, but to make a suggestion that only is interpreted as I want the one ability that is a staple in a Warriors' PvP viability, as well as a few others, a massive drawback to the class is completely idiotic. You already do double the damage. That's unless you dont know how to play your class very well.

[Prentice]

Yes, your right I made an assumption, but to make a suggestion that only is interpreted as I want the one ability that is a staple in a Warriors' PvP viability, as well as a few others, a massive drawback to the class is completely idiotic. You already do double the damage. That's unless you dont know how to play your class very well.

Oh please, paladin god, enlighten me as to how I can increase my damage dealt to a player target by 100%. Thanks for your help.

Had you noticed, the thread was about the removal of the MS ability because it is the problem. This reading thing seems to be owning you pretty hard today. My half damage suggestion was also made in jest, btw.

[kingmob]

I don't want MS because I have no desire to play a rogue, hunter, or warrior. Its all about the play style.

A playstyle isn't determined by a single effect of an ability.

[Keoni]

Let's just give everyone MS and call it a day. Oh and make it so it doesn't need to be applied, but rather it's an aura that has a 1000 yard range.

This. IMO, MS is one of the most interesting affects in the game. It changes the face of battle, and if you're unwilling to adapt to it, then you're going to lose. We need more things LIKE MS, not just more MS.

[mikka]

A playstyle isn't determined by a single effect of an ability.

BUT ITZ CALLD MS WARRIAR!!111
AND ME WANTZ MS RETIR PALADAIN!!11

[Prentice]

A playstyle isn't determined by a single effect of an ability.

While I agree with your statement, thats hardly the point that I was trying to make.

To explain:
-Warriors are far to dependent on dealing damage to be able to deal more damage. It is the curse of being a warrior.
-Rogues aren't exciting to me but I can see why many players like them. The whole "Sneaky Ninja" thing is very enticing to all of the young teens that play this game.
-Hunters are far and away my least favorite class. The highest level I have ever achieved on a hunter is level 22. The game play makes me want to punch babies.

[Prentice]

BUT ITZ CALLD MS WARRIAR!!111
AND ME WANTZ MS RETIR PALADAIN!!11

My mistake. I always thought they were called Arms, Fury and/or Prot warriors. I must have missed the patch notes that made them all MS warriors.

[mrjoshua]

The only thing Hand of Protection is good for any more is saving someone from a rogue or feral druid. Warriors can take it away, shamans can purge it, and dks and hunters have enough magic damage to not care. Between snares, stuns, and interrupts, rogues are way better at keeping teammates alive than a ret paladin is. All the ret tools to save people are on long cooldowns and easily dispelled. We don't want all the tools a rogue or warrior has, but it would be nice to have a snare OR a interrupt OR a distance closer. Ret paladins are still the only melee class without a snare, and please don't bring up Pursuit of Justice. Feral druids get to be 30% faster and a snare and a distance closer, Enhancement shamans are 40% faster with instant ghost wolf, plus wolf sprint plus multiple snares. Rogues, warriors and dks also have reliable snares and distance closing abilities.

All I can say is L2P....

You complain that Ret's do not have a "root" ability or a distance closer. If that Feral is kiting you so bad, have you ever considered using Repentance to close the distance? Once you get on that druid and throw a judgement of justice on him, you will be able to keep up with him in his cheetah form as he cannot shift out of JoJ. Fail paladin's fail is what it boils down to....

[Prentice]

All I can say is L2P....

You complain that Ret's do not have a "root" ability or a distance closer. If that Feral is kiting you so bad, have you ever considered using Repentance to close the distance? Once you get on that druid and throw a judgement of justice on him, you will be able to keep up with him in his cheetah form as he cannot shift out of JoJ. Fail paladin's fail is what it boils down to....

Show me a screenshot of a feral druid in kitty or bear form with Repentance active on them and I'll delete my character. Take your terrible, clueless, uninformed trolling elsewhere. You truly are bad at this game.

[Stieger23]

Ret pally need something like Mortal Strike OR a Counterspell like ( but it would be of us something that looks like a DK ) AND a snare. 15% speed ? Yes, but rogues have it too, and they have snare AND ms AND kick.


Warrior is overpowered too because he has all the things i said, and he can resist a lot better than a rogue ( yes, rogues are very easy to kill ). That's all. Dk and Retpally aren't fine. They burst like a warrior, but they don't have MS.
At least, DK have a FUCKING ANTI-MAGIC ZONE and Violation and a kind of Divine shield with Ams... Retpally can not be fine in 2s untill we have a ms Or a kick AND a snare.

DKs really don't burst like a warrior. I have both and can attest to the fact that warriors have MUCH higher burst potential than DKs right now.

As a matter of fact, the FOTM DK arena build effectively removes all burst potential in favor of a pressure model that focuses on ranged attacks. Why would a class make the (usually) foolish decision to write off burst damage in the arena environment? Because even maximized DK burst is not sufficient anyway, and being able to pressure the more fragile kiting classes at least gives DKs marginal utility in 5s.

Overall, though, you're right. MS is the problem. Hell, look at PVE faction champions in TOC 10. If your group has MS it's a fun, but not overly challenging execution fight. If you happen to not have it in your raid comp it becomes harder than any fight in Ulduar save Yogg/Alg.