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  1. #41

    Re: HL spam Vs. FL spam

    I really can't see how 25 members can have 4 trophys already. Even if there are 3 10-mans doing "A tribute to skill" everyweek, you still won't have enough trophys. There Koralon, but it would require extreme luck (no relentless gear, nor useless tiers)

  2. #42

    Re: HL spam Vs. FL spam

    For example i'll use Koralon the FLame Watcher(25 man). Easiest thing i find is setting a focus macro for the tank you're suppose to be healing. Make a focus beacon macro and a focus SS and FoL macro. Thats what i do to keep Beacon and the FoL hot on my assigned tank. Rest of the time i'm basically spamming HL on the offtank. Seeing as both tanks take consistant dmg i find it most useful, combined with using all my mana back abilities i usually sit at about 40% healing done(according to recount) for the run and don't manage to oom myself =)

    EDIT: So to answer the HL vs FL spam. I use HL 100% of the time besides using it to HoT the tank 5 mans.... thats an entirely different story

  3. #43

    Re: HL spam Vs. FL spam

    Quote Originally Posted by Epeenmcbean
    For example i'll use Koralon the FLame Watcher(25 man). Easiest thing i find is setting a focus macro for the tank you're suppose to be healing. Make a focus beacon macro and a focus SS and FoL macro. Thats what i do to keep Beacon and the FoL hot on my assigned tank. Rest of the time i'm basically spamming HL on the offtank. Seeing as both tanks take consistant dmg i find it most useful, combined with using all my mana back abilities i usually sit at about 40% healing done(according to recount) for the run and don't manage to oom myself =)

    EDIT: So to answer the HL vs FL spam. I use HL 100% of the time besides using it to HoT the tank 5 mans.... thats an entirely different story
    From my experience, the only time the off tank takes consistent damage in that fight is during Meteor Fists. I'm not to the point yet where i can constantly spam HL for the whole fight, but I'm definitely spamming it during Meteor Fists. Usually there is a raid member standing in a fire that can use your Holy Light a lot more than the off tank, unless of course it's during meteor fists.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinshiva
    The fact remains that you FUCKING FAIL.

  4. #44

    Re: HL spam Vs. FL spam

    I should have added that for the two or whatever weeks its been since koralon was released. never had a tank that didn't stand in fire. Hence the constant spam of HL on the OT haha. Either that or i HL'd the OT to heal the MT because im lazy. *(Beacon ftw)

  5. #45

    Re: HL spam Vs. FL spam

    If your party members are getting the heals they need then it is kind of pointless to ask since our choice of heals in each situation are the most obvious out of the four healing classes.

    and yeah, beacon healing ftw healing at a crazy range ;D
    Quote Originally Posted by Nawramsti
    Mages are fine wtf are you talking about.
    Frost for PvP Arcane for LOLPVP and Fire for...... for.....for.......one sec will get back to you.

  6. #46

    Re: HL spam Vs. FL spam

    sorry, i got 3 tier, and 2 non tier 245, now i got 4 tier and 1 non 245.

    had to wait till today for last 5 badges needed.

    even if not tier, u should have many 245 items by now. badge ring, badge trinket, badge shoulders even. easy to get without even getting trophies. and again, voa, free loot.

    decided to get the flash libram from honor today to use when i'm doing 10's and 5 mans. i think i used hl on 1 fight in reg 10 man toc, and the flash libram will be more usefull. just keybind each libram, and switch when needed.

  7. #47

    Re: HL spam Vs. FL spam

    Quote Originally Posted by darthceltic
    sorry, i got 3 tier, and 2 non tier 245, now i got 4 tier and 1 non 245.

    had to wait till today for last 5 badges needed.

    even if not tier, u should have many 245 items by now. badge ring, badge trinket, badge shoulders even. easy to get without even getting trophies. and again, voa, free loot.

    decided to get the flash libram from honor today to use when i'm doing 10's and 5 mans. i think i used hl on 1 fight in reg 10 man toc, and the flash libram will be more usefull. just keybind each libram, and switch when needed.
    I guess you can get by not casting Holy Light when your tanks are in full 245 gear. The tanks we used for 10 man reg last night were still in Ulduar loot, and I doubt anyone could have kept them up by just casting FoL. This was with 2 healers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinshiva
    The fact remains that you FUCKING FAIL.

  8. #48

    Re: HL spam Vs. FL spam

    Quote Originally Posted by darthceltic
    sorry, i got 3 tier, and 2 non tier 245, now i got 4 tier and 1 non 245.

    had to wait till today for last 5 badges needed.

    even if not tier, u should have many 245 items by now. badge ring, badge trinket, badge shoulders even. easy to get without even getting trophies. and again, voa, free loot.

    decided to get the flash libram from honor today to use when i'm doing 10's and 5 mans. i think i used hl on 1 fight in reg 10 man toc, and the flash libram will be more usefull. just keybind each libram, and switch when needed.
    Honor Libram? @@ You mean arena, right?

    ToC Regular is a joke. Toc-10-Hard is a semi-joke. ToC-25-hard bosses will hit for more than 40k, and I wouldn't rely on flashs if I were you.

  9. #49

    Re: HL spam Vs. FL spam

    u wouldn't rely on flash of light in reg 5 and 10 mans? waaaaa?

    we 2 healed it, no wipes, and i used hl on pvp boss, and the last 20% of anub. and i had same effective heals as our other healer for the raid. reg toc is a joke, if u need hl for that, lolz.

    and yes, doing it with a fully geared 50k tank or 2 does make it even more a joke. even the hard modes, hoping for heroic 10 no wipes achievement this coming tues, did 47 left last week. stupid pvp boss gets us every time, lol.

    and no, u can get the cheap one for 15k honor. i don't arena. i gave up pvp in wrath, boring. boring. boring. i had to do a bg and wg for the 15k honor, yeah, faceroll nubs using ulduar and toc dps gear, no pvp gear, fun fun. i had like 64 hk, and 1 death....boring. and i'm only average at pvp, maybe even below average or bad even since ihaven't done it since november really.

    50sp on a libram isnt worth doing arnea really, since it's only going to be used in 10 and 5 man regulars.

  10. #50

    Re: HL spam Vs. FL spam

    Quote Originally Posted by Beltaine
    Did:

    the tank die?
    anyone die from Tympanic Tantrum/Frozen Blows/etc.?
    the party/raid wipe (due to bad healing)?
    you go oom?


    If you answered no to all of the above, you're doing it right. End of story.
    Wrong. Just because it worked, doesn't mean it's right. I could do all the above in cloth Spirit gear. Does that mean I'm doing it right?

    You should be trying to do it the BEST way. Not just any way that seems to work. Do it BEST and you can bring less healers and more dps or heal two assignments instead of one.

    Crappy, sub-average players are okay with "Well, it worked".
    <WHAR LEWTS PLZ HALp>
    I'm bitter by default. Don't take it personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Either give an argument, or be automatically wrong. Your choice.

  11. #51

    Re: HL spam Vs. FL spam

    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest
    Wrong. Just because it worked, doesn't mean it's right. I could do all the above in cloth Spirit gear. Does that mean I'm doing it right?

    You should be trying to do it the BEST way. Not just any way that seems to work. Do it BEST and you can bring less healers and more dps or heal two assignments instead of one.

    Crappy, sub-average players are okay with "Well, it worked".
    Actually just because it worked does mean it's right to a very large degree.

    The only thing that really matters is if the content dies. If you can beat the content in cloth spirit gear, does it really matter?

    Sure it will offend theorycrafting and some vague platonic form of a best-played and geared character, but ultimately if you can do enough to make the content die in a reasonable amount of time, it really don't matter if you heal raids naked.

    It's more about what people who spend time and effort min-maxing and theorycrafting want to assign as a values-based argument to those who don't conform to a cultural norm.

    Of course the minute anyone responds to my argument above, it will talk about being carried or doing hard modes etc etc.

    That's all fine. My point is simply that if stuff is dying, what difference does it really make?

    It's like people who bitch about dps in a heroic...I had a totally decked out shaman join a heroic and didn't want to try a simple achievement unless dps was good enough. This is the mindset I am talking about.

    I've done just fine with no wipes healing heroic groups where no one was better than 1500 dps. Why? Because they knew the content and how to play it.

    It actually went faster than many heroics with superbly geared people because these "sub par" people actually knew how to play and didn't try to teach the tank and healer lessons or any such nonsense.

    So is there anything wrong with wanting to gear up and be the best you can be? Of course not.

    But let's not pretend that spell choice or gear or spec really matters more than what ultimately matters the most -- that the content you came to beat was beaten.


  12. #52

    Re: HL spam Vs. FL spam

    lol, i didn't know that you could buy s5 librams for honor only. That is lame, but.

  13. #53

    Re: HL spam Vs. FL spam

    Quote Originally Posted by Caean
    That's all fine. My point is simply that if stuff is dying, what difference does it really make?
    It makes no difference at all, assuming that the stuff that's dying is the top tier of stuff in the hardest modes and you're killing it as fast as you can.

    If you're limited to low level stuff then it matters, and if you take 2 nights to clear the instance rather than 1 then it matters.

    Of course if you gain particular pleasure from doing easy content in a hard way then that's fine for you - go ahead and refuse to conform to the cultural norm - screw sheep for all I care.

    Or run naxx-10 forever with your friends, or UK - normal, it doesn't matter right? Running better content or getting better gear is just conforming to that damned cultural norm.

    Heck you can stick to killing critters mate, those bunnies are dangerous.

    But let's not pretend that spell choice or gear or spec really matters more than what ultimately matters the most -- that the content you came to beat was beaten.
    No, what matters ultimately for most of us is to get to the next level of content, or get ready for it by gearing up in the current one, because otherwise we'd still be farming bunnies. For the very best of us what matters is to be the best players we can possibly be, but even for an average raider there's more to life than just beating 'the content you came to beat', because how/why did you pick that content?

  14. #54

    Re: HL spam Vs. FL spam

    Except you haven't offered a cogent argument for why doing something one way and not the other prevents you from accomplishing those goals.

    Hell I've downed hard modes with some people doing rather sup par dps and healing. The content still died. And it didn't take 2 or more days either.

    The hardest content, sure I can see it mattering there, but more from a standpoint of allowing it to cover up errors people make rather than being a necessity.

    In fact there are achievements for dropping bosses using only at or below a certain ilvl of gear.

    Moreover, the assumption that everyone is doing hard modes that requires all the best and greatest gear is simply a strawman. Sure some or many are, but to let that mindset dominate the majority of players might be a nice goal in some ways, it's certainly not a requirement.

    As far as farming bunnies goes, the implication is that you NEED that newest gear or you couldn't do it.

    It's a nice self deception to keep you playing, and it sure satisfies our need to make our ship-in-a-bottle characters more powerful, but it's ultimately a fundamentally flawed argument.

    I'm sure people need a proto-drake too, so yeah let's get more gear so we make getting a proto-drake easier to get too!

  15. #55

    Re: HL spam Vs. FL spam

    we don't have to. u will not be clearing 25 hard mode toc spamming flash only. u don't need to gear up and be "this way" to beat 10 man toc, u can do that in spirit gear. but u won't be beating it in hard mode with spirit gear. on anub 2 heals 10 man hard i get over 8khps for the fight. try that using spirit gear and flash of lights only.

  16. #56

    Re: HL spam Vs. FL spam

    Quote Originally Posted by Caean
    Except you haven't offered a cogent argument for why doing something one way and not the other prevents you from accomplishing those goals.
    This is a strawman as I didn't attempt to - I was simply pointing out that your definition of success was clearly incomplete. You weren't merely claiming that FoL spam was adequate, a contention that may be true - I made no comment one way or the other. You were claiming that killing the boss proved it was adequate - a much stronger and more demonstrably false claim.

    Moreover, the assumption that everyone is doing hard modes that requires all the best and greatest gear is simply a strawman. Sure some or many are, but to let that mindset dominate the majority of players might be a nice goal in some ways, it's certainly not a requirement.
    Saying I assumed any such thing is a strawman, since if you go back and look I didn't. I assumed most people would like to be clearing the hardmodes, a very different proposition. This is true in the same way that most people would rather be running Ulduar & ToC and not Heroics & Naxx. Once ICC comes out most people will prefer to run that, and if they have a decent shot at hard modes they'll try for them. Heck I've seen PuGs so full of fail they could barely clear OS-10 who wanted to run it with drakes up - people are rarely lacking in ambition, more often it's sense they're missing.

    People want to be running the best content and getting the best gear, otherwise they'd all be bunny farming.

    As far as farming bunnies goes, the implication is that you NEED that newest gear or you couldn't do it.

    It's a nice self deception to keep you playing, and it sure satisfies our need to make our ship-in-a-bottle characters more powerful, but it's ultimately a fundamentally flawed argument.
    Reading comprehension ftlose dude, or more likely yet another straw man. I'm saying that if we were satisfied killing what we can kill today we'd have been happy being level 1 and killing bunnies. But we weren't satisfied at level 1, we wanted to reach max level, we wanted to kill bosses, and then we wanted tougher bosses.

    Like people who build ships in bottles keep building grander and more intricate ships we keep trying to make our characters better, and to get better at playing them. Sure it's pointless - that's the nature of a hobby - we're not trying to cure cancer.

    Settling for being mediocre is fine if you enjoy it. But it limits what you get to kill, and that limitation is clearly significant. You aren't even attempting to argue with that fact but instead bring in a hay-field worth of straw men so I guess you fundamentally get that what you said was wrong.

  17. #57

    Re: HL spam Vs. FL spam

    Quote Originally Posted by Caean
    Actually just because it worked does mean it's right to a very large degree.

    The only thing that really matters is if the content dies. If you can beat the content in cloth spirit gear, does it really matter?
    /facedesk

    I can guarantee you if you are in a top 500 raiding guild and actually are stupid enough to have this mentality... you won't be there for long. If you don't figure out how to get the maximum performance out of your class under a variety of different scenarios, then you aren't doing your job. Just because something "worked" doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't improve.

    I know I could "heal" a full 10 man ToC hard run specced TbtL and using only FoL. Does that mean that since content died, the way I was specced and the way I healed doesn't really matter? Ummm... no. I would stress the shit out of my other healer(s) and would basically get carried through the instance.

    Or let me put it to you this way... so maybe you can understand how stupid what your saying actually is. Lets say I play soccer and right before the game I decide I'm going to switch it up a little. I put my right shoe on my left foot and my left shoe on my right foot. Then I tie my shoelaces together so the longest stride I can possibly take is a foot long. Then I go out onto the field and play and somehow we win. And then I come of the field thinking, "Hey, we won the game so I guess I can play like this all the time. Clearly it works for me." You, sir, are now the epitome of a "dumb shit."

    I'm not even going to bother saying which is better: FoL or HL. Most of you should know that by now. But I can't sit here and let you say the type of healing style you use or the type of stats your min/maxing doesn't matter at all as long as content dies.

  18. #58

    Re: HL spam Vs. FL spam

    I'm one of those who prefer to "spam" HLs, but that doesn't mean that "FoL spam" isn't viable, speaking of ToGC 25man also; it depends from your playstyle and your guild. Of course, a "HL build" is superior to a "FoL build", but something that works for most paladins doesn't mean that it will work fine for you too.
    For example, most top guild's paladins stack Int and use mainly HLs, though some of them go for SP/FoL. Both works fine, just try and find what works better for you. But if you still want to play your class at its max, then as we all (I hope) know "HL spam" is the way to go.

  19. #59

    Re: HL spam Vs. FL spam

    I use holy shock every time it is off CD and immediately after I hit a FoL whether it proced for instant cast or not. If the tank is suddenly down a huge amount of health I usually hit a holy shock, FoL then HL. The only time I find myself spamming HL much is the occasional Patchwerk25 fights.

  20. #60

    Re: HL spam Vs. FL spam

    Because patchwerk hits really hard, you should know. rofl


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