1. #1

    So how is Shadow DPS on the PTR?

    With the new buffs out, has anyone noticed an increase in their dps on the PTR?

    Although I'm thankful for the buffs, I'm wondering if it will be enough to make us competitive again.

    80 Kingslayer Shadow Priest - Spirestone
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...e&n=Direshadow

  2. #2

    Re: So how is Shadow DPS on the PTR?

    Buffs? The only thing i've seen is we're getting an extra 10% of our spirit converted to SP, so for my 600 raid buff spirit i'll get another 60 SP... not sure that makes that much of a difference.

  3. #3

    Re: So how is Shadow DPS on the PTR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    Buffs? The only thing i've seen is we're getting an extra 10% of our spirit converted to SP, so for my 600 raid buff spirit i'll get another 60 SP... not sure that makes that much of a difference.
    It's not an additional 1k dps, but 60 more SP sounds like you just freed up 3 red gem slots. I'm jealous. =)
    Quote Originally Posted by L2theuka
    "OMG Rock is so OP NERF NERF NERF, paper is fine though" - Scissors

  4. #4

    Re: So how is Shadow DPS on the PTR?

    That makes no sense... you're telling me that because a talent gives me another 60sp in my current gear that i'm going to remove 3 red gems for stam or something? How does that make sense? Instead of 3200 raid buffed sp i'll have 3260, not to say that isn't helpful but it's hardly a change that is going to impact dps ability in a noticable way.

    Also factor in that gear is being itemised with less spirit. I project in BiS gear that i'd have 500 raid buffed spirit, so at high level gear its only another 50sp and my total sp would be in excess of 3500, so it's going to have a diminished effect.

  5. #5

    Re: So how is Shadow DPS on the PTR?

    Yeah, dude, spell power is our MAIN stat.

    It's what we want above ALL else.

    We're not going waste potential gem slots just because we have a bit more spell power.


    I'm starting to agree with Blizz more and more. We need buffs to our direct damage, not spell power.


    80 Kingslayer Shadow Priest - Spirestone
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...e&n=Direshadow

  6. #6

    Re: So how is Shadow DPS on the PTR?

    MF and SW:P cop penalties to the normal SP coefficient so those spells never scale from SP like they should.

    I agree that our dps is a little behind most classes but I don't think it's so far behind that we're a liability. A slight buff might be in order but what we've current recieved is barely a buff. Sure you take whatever you're given but the context of this post is that this small change is going to make a noticable effect... it isn't.

  7. #7

    Re: So how is Shadow DPS on the PTR?

    well atm, I'm putting my a-game face on for every raid, and I usually wind up in 9th or 8th place at around 4.5 dps, give or take, while the number 1's are at 6K dps.

    Keep in mind, this isn't omg down ToC 25 hard mode the day it comes out guild.

    That being said, and looking at other shadow priests in the kinds of guilds mentioned above, our spec isn't really jamming with Blizz's philosophy, which is "if you're decent, you'll do well"


    the buff, I feel, will not really fix our problems, but only prevent us from losing our raid spot, come Icecrown.

    80 Kingslayer Shadow Priest - Spirestone
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...e&n=Direshadow

  8. #8

    Re: So how is Shadow DPS on the PTR?

    Actually, to go further...

    And keep in mind this is just me rambling.


    Despite the fact that our dots now crit, I always found that I was pushing more dps with our OLD Shadowform (Crit = equal damage increase)

    Then again that was before Ulduar and ToC, where the bar was much higher.

    I dunno... just being observant.

    80 Kingslayer Shadow Priest - Spirestone
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...e&n=Direshadow

  9. #9

    Re: So how is Shadow DPS on the PTR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Direshadow
    With the new buffs out, has anyone noticed an increase in their dps on the PTR?

    Although I'm thankful for the buffs, I'm wondering if it will be enough to make us competitive again.
    No it's not enough. Also spellpower buffs are the wrong approach, spriest needs buffs only to single target spells like MB and MF, not dots.

    But blizz has now made their "fix", and as usual, they have no idea what they have done so now they will probably just sit and wait till 3.3 to see what happens.
    It's not a very hard buff to theorycraft btw, I don't care what blizz says. It's already been done in this thread with sufficient accuracy.

  10. #10

    Re: So how is Shadow DPS on the PTR?

    It seems to me that the big obvious difference between the way spriests (and some lock specs) work compared to mages or ele shammys is haste scaling. In BC crit and haste were almost worthless stats, and they've since gone a long way into fixing our crit scaling. However, our haste scaling has only improved because they put such a high percentage of our damage output into Mindflay, our only spell that really scales with it.

    Considering they made a compromise with crit rating effecting dots before they were able to make dots crit, then perhaps if they're not willing to make dots tick faster with haste, they can at least give us a certain percentage of our haste rating boosting dot damage? Obviously that would require rebalancing the other abilities, so I doubt Blizz will see the need to do this anytime soon, but this seems the best way of adjusting shadowpriest damage without having to hotfix our baseline damage every tier of raiding.

    Nothing can shake my believe that this world is the fruit of a dark god whose shadow I extend -- Emil Cioran

  11. #11

    Re: So how is Shadow DPS on the PTR?

    Let's see what would happen if dots scaled with haste - I found a log where I did IC as shadow (was a wipe, but only one I have) and this is what it says:

    VT: 320k
    DP: 267K
    SWP: 232K

    My haste is 404 (12% + something small).

    So, if every dot ticked 12% + 3% + 5% (raid buffs) = 20% faster, numbers look like this:

    320k * 1.2 = 384K
    267K * 1.2 = 320K
    232K * 1.2 = 278K

    Fight log says I did 1 861 963 damage over the course of 4min 30 sec (270 sec).

    1 861 963 / 270 = 6 896 DPS

    Let's add hasted dots to the calculation:

    1 861 963 + (320 + 267 + 232) * 0.2 = 1 861 963 + 163 800 = 2 025 763

    2 025 763 / 270 = 7 502 DPS
    -------------------------------------------------------

    So, more or less - letting our dots scale with haste is increase of around 600ish dps. You can say whatever you want but it's nice upgrade and we STILL won't be anywhere near OP, haste would become more desired stat and with ToC BiS gear we still won't be able to come close to melee.

  12. #12

    Re: So how is Shadow DPS on the PTR?

    I imagine that if they did let our DoTs scale with haste, then they would also have to do it for every other DoT class, resulting in them further boosting their DPS when they don't consider it needed.

    It wouldn't be hard to just change a talent to help our scaling. Make Shadowform increase our Shadow damage by 20-25% instead of 15%, for example, or increase the spellpower gain on Misery by a certain %. It's not like people will cry about it making us overpowered in PVP, since, well...when did you last see Shadow as an overpowered PVP tree?
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  13. #13

    Re: So how is Shadow DPS on the PTR?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadix
    However, our haste scaling has only improved because they put such a high percentage of our damage output into Mindflay, our only spell that really scales with it.
    This is only true when you evaluate spells in isolation, however you don't dps by casting spells in isolation you cast an assortment of spells in a specific order to maximise dps. So when you evaluate haste over a combination of spells, it always has the same effect.

    However, due to the MB CD you will find our haste scaling occurs in steps. To that point i'll agree that haste can have some limited impact but the fact is more haste will result in more dps.

    Haste also has the advantage of not being dictated by RNG, if you increase your crit rate by 5% you will gain a dps advantage on average over time. However for specific encounters that 5% crit could mean nothing, 5% cirt doesn't guarantee it will happen. At least haste is a definitive dps stat that is always available.

  14. #14

    Re: So how is Shadow DPS on the PTR?

    True, but aside from lowering the chances of having cooldown collisions (which is indeed useful and a definite damage increase) and the small percent of MB cast time it shaves off (essentially reducing the cooldown by a fraction of a second), haste in regards to the entire spell rotation lets us cast more Mind Flays because we're not spending as much time refreshing dots/cooldowns. So haste increases our MF damage by a good percentage directly, and by a slightly smaller percentage indirectly.

    One of the major upshots of these mechanics is that haste raises *potential* dps, but requires smarter play to make use of that potential. This may or may not be a good thing, depending on what part of the class you enjoy most, but due to the fact that almost all our spells line up with the GCD, spell queuing doesn't really exist for us.

    A fire mage gaining an extra percent haste doesn't have to adjust playstyle-- it just means there's less cast time before the queue area starts, which with longer cast times is much easier to adapt to. If a shadowpriest has pracitced a 1.3 sec GCD for weeks and gets some new gear knocking it down to a 1.2 sec GCD, if they don't hit the next button .1 second sooner, there's 0 dps gain from that haste on the cast. It took me a few weeks to get used to the haste buff with my 4 piece t8 set, and I'm still not entirely sure I've maxed the potential I can get from it. When I get a haste buff on my mage, I know for a fact that I'm getting 100% effectiveness from it with minimal effort.

    Perhaps this is why some players complain about lacking dps while it's fine for others?

    Nothing can shake my believe that this world is the fruit of a dark god whose shadow I extend -- Emil Cioran

  15. #15
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: So how is Shadow DPS on the PTR?

    Well ok. The damage isn't ever so bad in situations where we can DoT up, but the problem is scaling is piss-poor, and our single-target dps isn't ok.

    Here's from one of earlier tries on the night yesterday, on Heroic Twin Val'kyrs (25man)



    It's not THAT bad damage output, but as soon as the Empowered Kicks in we get left behind, since our single-target damage is so bad. This is something I want fixed.

    (We killed Twins later, making us 4/5 Heroic)

  16. #16

    Re: So how is Shadow DPS on the PTR?

    Crappy spell scaling is the problem. I personally think they need to inc the coeficents for the % of spellpower added to our spells. Buffing the flat damage is just a bandaid fix.
    When people say "pls" just because its shorter then "please", I feel totally justified to say "No" just because its shorter then "Yes".

  17. #17

    Re: So how is Shadow DPS on the PTR?

    Yea, id like to say my Spriest is decently geared. I know my roll, rotation, yet as everyone in here has already stated, fail in comparison compaired to the other casters of equall skill/gear level. Im not a theorycrafter, nor do i need to be one to realize our spec is in trouble, i have a hard time maintaining raid positions because i am barely pushing 5k dps in ToC.... I saw someone mention having our dots scale with haste? Sounded like a good suggestion aside from the other classes QQ that would soon follow. But I dunno, what about having a talent that does so. /end rant

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