Retribution PvP-Issues... an attempt in solving them

[Ronark]

^this (but perhaps a little less brutal)

remember, your class is hybrid -- and that as blizzard goes through and revamps classes... most get their time in the sun, save maybe the eternally gimped moonkin.

sadly, i can remember at least 2 times since tbc where paladins were ungodly killing machines -- but really right now, they're more balanced than they've ever been. in a dual, i was only crit for half my life instead of all of it in less than 3 seconds. and that being said, i was able to play smart and come back for a win against all odds. thank you seal nerfs!

So because we can heal or tank like crap when Ret means we can't do well in PvP? What about Warriors: They are a Hybrid as well, yet they have (most of) the tools they need.

[Indris]

This (and countless other threads about Ret PVP issues) is a shining example of why any 'proper' changes aren't likely to ever be seen: just like any class / spec, a Ret Pala can do just fine against idiots and awful geared 'casuals' in BGs / duels - thus filling all the suggestion forums with rivers of tears and "RET IS FINE L2P" crap. It doesn't matter that the spec had not been played in a PvP tournament once nor that there are virtually no Ret Paladins above 2k rating in arenas, it's 'fine' because the awful scrubs still die to it every so often.

Go figure.

[Ronark]

This (and countless other threads about Ret PVP issues) is a shining example of why any 'proper' changes aren't likely to ever be seen: just like any class / spec, a Ret Pala can do just fine against idiots and awful geared 'casuals' in BGs / duels - thus filling all the suggestion forums with rivers of tears and "RET IS FINE L2P" crap. It doesn't matter that the spec had not been played in a PvP tournament once nor that there are virtually no Ret Paladins above 2k rating in arenas, it's 'fine' because the awful scrubs still die to it every so often.

Go figure.

Its called a "Standard Market Curving Technique".

[XtreO]

Now As for you being outrun in arena because you couldn't catch the ret paladin ahead of you that just shows that you fail as a a warrior, all you had to do was use charge or intercept and you would have been on him instantly.

The other part of your post contained no real anrguments, so I'll not answer them as it is a waste of time.


Let's instead see how the standard fight vs a ret paladin team can play out in 2v2 arena.

Charge for rage and reaching -> stunned -> Paladins runs -> bloodrage, intercept and conc blow > Uses gay stunfreeing move and runs -> I follow, CCed by his companion (most Retridins in my battlegroup team with either a rogue or a CCing healer) -> trinket or wait for me depending on the situation -> rejoin the fight with charge and intercept on CD -> LOL REPENTANCE while my healer is being raped on -> berserker rage to get out -> random nuking from both sides -> guess what, another long, low CD stun -> dead healer or dead ret paladin mate (given it is a rogue... Something it not always is). Rarely being nuked on seldom gives me the freedom to switch stance and do hamstring, something that anyway is extremely impractical given prot warriors are as usefull when not in def stance as a smart kangoroo would be driving a car.

[Kairu]

tried it? i think not, it doesnt remove it
you are missing a few info about your partner take damage break your ''insert here''welcome to 3.2..

Freedom a deep freeze? Many times.

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=44572

STUNS the target. You can freedom it.

[DaGhostDS]

Freedom a deep freeze? Many times.

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=44572

STUNS the target. You can freedom it.

il try resetting my pvp talents.. never been able to freedom it
0_ô
seriously wth?

[Zophiel]

I'm just going to throw this out there...why would Blizzard give a class with so much utility and and the ability to self-heal and heal others an MS effect?(I'm aware priests can heal but not in Shadowform) PvP,as stated by Blizzard, isn't balanced around 1v1. Just because YOU yourself can't kill a healer doesnt take into account the different skill levels/gear levels/stat balance/use of abilities. This isn't a hate on paladin post but its a bit much to ask for so much more for a class that already has a ton of utility and healing capabilities, along with a few ranged abilities outside of the 5 yard melee range and damage that isnt mitigated by armor. Each class has it's own weakness against certain other classes but there shouldnt be one class that can kill everything all the time regardless of the skill involved by just the amount of abilities amassed into one spec. I do agree some tweaking should be done and I really like the effort and thought put into it by the Original Post I just dont agree that one class should be given so much utility that they are completely required for any comp in arena or otherwise. PvP is far from balanced in this day and age of WoW!

[Luthius]

I liked the ideas stated above yet I am still sticking to my own opinion.

Delete the Whole Paladin class, and build it off scratch. Keep Seal/Judgement system, but you need to build it again from scratch.

My opinion is justified by Unlearning All Talents and examining baseline abilities.

Offensive:
-Seals/Judgement (10 Seconds Cooldown)
-Exorcism (15 Seconds Cooldown)
-Consecration (8 Seconds Cooldown - Mana Expensive)
-Auto-Attack

Healing:
-Flash of Light
-Holy Light

Buffs/Blessings/Hands.

-----

[Nd]

I.) Repentance made baseline, duration and cooldown cut in half. Also make it work on Elementals. Not breaking on damage from dots applied from the paladin.
Explanation: By doing so, every paladin specc gets a viable CC for PvE and an interrupt on a cd less than a minute. Shouldnt be op at all.

Yeah, not OP at all. So you want to be a rogue in plate, gg

[Whoopzz]

Well I was only able to sift through 3 pages of this thread before I got fed up of the trolls, but here's my $.02. We need one of 2 things so we aren't relying on our team mates utility to kill some thing.

1) Put a deep ret talent similar to infected wounds in the feral Druid tree, except instead of 50% movement make it 25%. worthy note that Druids are also hybrids, have significantly better CC, move faster than us, are immune to sheep, and can break CC movement imapiring effects by shape shifting.

2) Give us a strike or ability similar to the Shaman's earth shock, except make the cooldown twice as long (noticing a pattern here?). Worthy note that Shamans are also hybrids, bring heroism, hex is significantly better than repentance, can purge both debuffs on themselves and buffs on others, Bring multiple buffs and utilities via totems, have a wide range of shocks for different applications, and they have movement increasing effects via ghost wolf. IMHO this is what we really need, even more so than the movement speed decrease.

I know, some people are worried about homogenization, but these are tools that aren't OP for us and would even out the playing field amongst the hybrids, instead of us crutching on our team mates to be successful. ;D

by the way, this is coming from one of the few Ret Paladins over 2k rating, believe me, we need help in a big way. I don't bring anything to the table that a DK or Rogue wouldn't, minus the bubble.

[undaunting]

0/53/18 . prot pvp spec with ret gear on. Armory a guy named Superprot.

I tried that out and I think it's a winner. Burst isn't as big, but I get the same solid dps, but better survibility... can't freedom out of stuns but I get a cool frisbee to toss around every 30 seconds and a HoJ every 20.

after they nerf the prot holy style of healing. the prot ret style of pvping will be so much better. 60% off str. instead of 30% off stam. that's just too good of a buff to be true.

I like the ret style for cleansing between attacks... other than that i'd rather go prot. sword and board ftw.