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  1. #1

    Haste as retripala

    Hi. I have a pretty decent retri pala as my main, and I'm about to switch two items out.

    When Blizzard hopefully next wednesday announces 3.2.2 and the hotfix for our tier9 2-setbonus, I will equip my [Liadrin's Helm of Triumph] over my [Conqueror's Aegis Helm] and thereby loose my tier8.5 setbonus, but gain the new one. This will also see me an increase in stats.

    Yesterday I got [Belt of the Impaler] heroic version from TotC 10M-HM and I plan on switching my [Bloodbath Girdle] for this heroic [Belt of the Impaler]. It gives me some useless armorpen and alot of haste - I will go under expertise cap, but I dont have the 10 expertise glyph, so it should not be a problem.

    I've been wondering if its worth changing my belt, I have to change glyph (ino exorcism doesnt give that much) and I lose some crit.

    So, how is haste scaling with us?

    Armory-link: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Laughing+Skull&n=Ebolaz!

    I've got PvP/PvE gear on atm, but I hope that will change soon!


    You can see my real stats in my signature...

  2. #2
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Haste as retripala

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebolaz
    Hi. I have a pretty decent retri pala as my main, and I'm about to switch two items out.

    When Blizzard hopefully next wednesday announces 3.2.2 and the hotfix for our tier9 2-setbonus, I will equip my [Liadrin's Helm of Triumph] over my [Conqueror's Aegis Helm] and thereby loose my tier8.5 setbonus, but gain the new one. This will also see me an increase in stats.

    Yesterday I got [Belt of the Impaler] heroic version from TotC 10M-HM and I plan on switching my [Bloodbath Girdle] for this heroic [Belt of the Impaler]. It gives me some useless armorpen and alot of haste - I will go under expertise cap, but I dont have the 10 expertise glyph, so it should not be a problem.

    I've been wondering if its worth changing my belt, I have to change glyph (ino exorcism doesnt give that much) and I lose some crit.

    So, how is haste scaling with us?

    Armory-link: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Laughing+Skull&n=Ebolaz!

    I've got PvP/PvE gear on atm, but I hope that will change soon!
    First there is this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark
    [6SWS]- Stat Weightings
    Stat Weightings are the approximate value of stats when compared to 1 Attack Power- The higher the value, the more the stat is worth. Stat weights are great for comparing multiple pieces of gear that have different stats between them.

    Strength........186
    Hit Rating.......168 (34)
    Exp Rating......101 (0)
    Crit Rating........84
    Agility.............79
    Armor Pen.......73
    Attack Power....73
    Haste Rating....67

    The values given in the parenthesis is the value of the stat once you reach the soft cap of the stat.

    Based off the given Stat Weighting, one can determine which gems and enchantments are also most beneficial to your paladin- Note that the recommended Gems and Enchantments are assuming you have both your Hit rating and Expertise rating capped.
    Note that is also this list:
    http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t69627-r...s_3_2_edition/

    Best thing to do is to download Rawr and PnP which upgrades would be best for your character (whilst following the given Stat Weights)- However, note that these are both for patch 3.2 and not 3.2.2 (with the Seal of Command changes).

  3. #3

    Re: Haste as retripala

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark
    First there is this:
    Note that is also this list:
    http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t69627-r...s_3_2_edition/

    Best thing to do is to download Rawr and PnP which upgrades would be best for your character (whilst following the given Stat Weights)- However, note that these are both for patch 3.2 and not 3.2.2 (with the Seal of Command changes).
    Well yeah. I got rawr, and it says the belt is an upgrade. I just heard that rawr made alot of mistakes. But I guess that 1 more socket does the trick, doesn't it?

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Prentice's Avatar
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    Re: Haste as retripala

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebolaz
    Well yeah. I got rawr, and it says the belt is an upgrade. I just heard that rawr made alot of mistakes. But I guess that 1 more socket does the trick, doesn't it?
    I would say no. Expertise capped without the glyph and the extra crit would be more beneficial than the extra socket. Forcing yourself to use the Seal of Vengeance glyph when you could be Exp-capped otherwise should result in a DPS loss. Crit and Expertise(while under the cap) are worth more than Haste and Armor Penetration.

    Glyph of Exorcism in Ulduar is mediocre. Glyph of Exorcism in TotC is amazing. 3 of the 5 encounters are against undead/demon mobs. The biggest difference is that those 3/5 fights are all 100% time on-target fights with the exception of Anub's submerges.

    All of that being said, I am assuming that you are comparing a pair of ilvl 245 belts. [Belt of the Impaler] vs [Bloodbath Girdle].

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    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Haste as retripala

    Quote Originally Posted by Ebolaz
    Well yeah. I got rawr, and it says the belt is an upgrade. I just heard that rawr made alot of mistakes. But I guess that 1 more socket does the trick, doesn't it?
    It doesn't "make mistakes", but it DOES 100% follow the Stat Weights- Being that even if you are 1 Hit Rating under the cap, it'll choose gear X which has 100 STR, 72 Hit over gear Y with 103 STR, 53 Crit.

    For the sake of making future posts easier, I compiled this:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?compare=47998;47268&weights=Paladin%20-%20Retribution%20(DPS);20:119:117:96:21:114:77:103;186:168:101:84:79:73:73:67

    Now, if we compare he two, you'd have:

    Impaler:
    +63 Armor Pen
    +54 Haste
    +1 Socket (20 STR)

    Girdle
    -12 (+8) Str
    +59 Crit
    +67 Expertise

    Because you'd be Expertise Cap'd with the Glyph (+83 Exp Rating), we can ignore the Expertise Rating on the Girdle. This leaves us with 63 ArP, 54 Haste, and 12 STR vs. 59 Crit, which means the clear winner is the Impaler belt.

  6. #6
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Haste as retripala

    Quote Originally Posted by Prentice
    All of that being said, I am assuming that you are comparing a pair of ilvl 245 belts. [Belt of the Impaler] vs [Bloodbath Girdle].
    He is comparing those two belts, yes.

  7. #7
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Haste as retripala

    Quote Originally Posted by Prentice
    I would say no. Expertise capped without the glyph and the extra crit would be more beneficial than the extra socket. Forcing yourself to use the Seal of Vengeance glyph when you could be Exp-capped otherwise should result in a DPS loss. Crit and Expertise(while under the cap) are worth more than Haste and Armor Penetration.

    Glyph of Exorcism in Ulduar is mediocre. Glyph of Exorcism in TotC is amazing. 3 of the 5 encounters are against undead/demon mobs. The biggest difference is that those 3/5 fights are all 100% time on-target fights with the exception of Anub's submerges.

    All of that being said, I am assuming that you are comparing a pair of ilvl 245 belts. [Belt of the Impaler] vs [Bloodbath Girdle].
    Sorry for the Triple (?) post, but you do have a good point- In Rawr, be sure to enable your target as Undead with your current set up (copied from your armory) and compare that value to using no Exo glyph and the new Impaler belt.

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Prentice's Avatar
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    Re: Haste as retripala

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark
    Because you'd be Expertise Cap'd with the Glyph (+83 Exp Rating), we can ignore the Expertise Rating on the Girdle. This leaves us with 63 ArP, 54 Haste, and 12 STR vs. 59 Crit, which means the clear winner is the Impaler belt.
    Gonna run these numbers in RAWR. This just doesn't seem right. You are trading Glyph of Exorcism with Exp-cap for just Exp-cap via glyph for haste/arp against the weight of the crit.

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    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Haste as retripala

    Quote Originally Posted by Prentice
    Gonna run these numbers in RAWR. This just doesn't seem right. You are trading Glyph of Exorcism with Exp-cap for just Exp-cap via glyph for haste/arp against the weight of the crit.
    See my post above yours- You also have to factor in 12 Strength to your calculations against that Crit value as well (due to the added Socket).

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Prentice's Avatar
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    Re: Haste as retripala

    I just pulled his armory up in RAWR and here are my results.

    Belt of the Impaler w/ SoV glyph=7576

    Bloodbath Girdle w/ Exorcism glyph=7563

    Numbers don't lie here. I guess the other stats mesh better for him. My gear is built around the SoV glyph. If I lose Bloodbath Girdle, my Expertise falls to ~18 with the glyph. I have passed on that Impaler belt twice already.

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  11. #11
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Haste as retripala

    Quote Originally Posted by Prentice
    Gonna run these numbers in RAWR. This just doesn't seem right. You are trading Glyph of Exorcism with Exp-cap for just Exp-cap via glyph for haste/arp against the weight of the crit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prentice
    I just pulled his armory up in RAWR and here are my results.

    Belt of the Impaler w/ SoV glyph=7576

    Bloodbath Girdle w/ Exorcism glyph=7563

    Numbers don't lie here. I guess the other stats mesh better for him. My gear is built around the SoV glyph. If I lose Bloodbath Girdle, my Expertise falls to ~18 with the glyph. I have passed on that Impaler belt twice already.
    Did you run both items with a 20 STR gem and 1 NMT as well?

    For Impaler with 2 20 STRs and 1 NMT w/SoV glyph I had 7492 DPS
    For Girdle with 1 20 STR and 1 NMT w/ Exo glyph I had 7482 DPS

    Either way the Impaler pulls ahead.

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Prentice's Avatar
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    Re: Haste as retripala

    So I took this a step further.

    My previous numbers were derived using a full set of raid buffs. Lets say that for some reason you are running a 10man and don't have an Enhance Sham or DK in your raid. Bloodbath comes to 6667 and Impaler comes out to 6660.

    If you have the enhance/dk but lose a warrior for Sunder and Blood Frenzy, Bloodbath comes to 7230 and Impaler comes to 7229.

    While Impaler has an edge in 25man raids with the full compliment of buffs, you can see that it doesn't dominate when even a few buffs are missing.

    To prove a different point, your Expertise trinket is terrible. According to RAWR, that trinket is giving you 46.33 DPS with SoV Glyph/Impaler while Mirror of Truth will grant 205.15, Wrathstone gives 212.02, and Banner of Victory grants 206.49.

    I'd recommend losing the Expertise trinket ASAP. Without that Expertise trinket, you will gain more DPS from the Bloodbath or Impaler/SoV glyph combo than you would with it + Impaler/SoV.

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  13. #13
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Haste as retripala

    Quote Originally Posted by Prentice
    So I took this a step further.

    My previous numbers were derived using a full set of raid buffs. Lets say that for some reason you are running a 10man and don't have an Enhance Sham or DK in your raid. Bloodbath comes to 6667 and Impaler comes out to 6660.

    If you have the enhance/dk but lose a warrior for Sunder and Blood Frenzy, Bloodbath comes to 7230 and Impaler comes to 7229.

    While Impaler has an edge in 25man raids with the full compliment of buffs, you can see that it doesn't dominate when even a few buffs are missing.

    To prove a different point, your Expertise trinket is terrible. According to RAWR, that trinket is giving you 46.33 DPS with SoV Glyph/Impaler while Mirror of Truth will grant 205.15, Wrathstone gives 212.02, and Banner of Victory grants 206.49.

    I'd recommend losing the Expertise trinket ASAP. Without that Expertise trinket, you will gain significantly more DPS from the Bloodbath/Exorcism combo than you would with it + Impaler/SoV.
    Hence why I asked if you had calculated the belts with the given Gems (and have Enforced Meta Requirements checked). The DPS between the two is so miniscule on a large scale that it wouldn't matter much in the long run in terms of efficiency (based on Use, Cost, etc.)

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    The Lightbringer Prentice's Avatar
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    Re: Haste as retripala

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark
    Hence why I asked if you had calculated the belts with the given Gems (and have Enforced Meta Requirements checked). The DPS between the two is so miniscule on a large scale that it wouldn't matter much in the long run in terms of efficiency (based on Use, Cost, etc.)
    I always set my default raid buffs to those used by EJ.

    All buffs minus Amp Magic. 6 min fight. lvl 83. Cons Effect 100%. Stacked reset 2. Time in front 0.

    When I say "gain more DPS", I am meaning about 200 DPS. Get rid of thing quick like.

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  15. #15
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Haste as retripala

    Quote Originally Posted by Prentice
    I always set my default raid buffs to those used by EJ.

    All buffs minus Amp Magic. 6 min fight. lvl 83. Cons Effect 100%. Stacked reset 2. Time in front 0.

    When I say "gain more DPS", I am meaning about 200 DPS. Get rid of thing quick like.
    Does that include Focus Magic as well? :P
    Yeah I didn't bother to look at the trinkets since I have class shortly

  16. #16
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    Re: Haste as retripala

    little advice
    • for your gem in your belt, you are wasting a prismatic gem in a prismatic slot when you could get a +4 str or +6 str in your pants
    • the hit on the boot isnt needed :P
    • that trinket is made for a rogueor druid with fast hit

    **looking for an updated stat weight since its not updated for the ArP hotfix nerf**

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer Prentice's Avatar
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    Re: Haste as retripala

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark
    Does that include Focus Magic as well? :P
    Yeah I didn't bother to look at the trinkets since I have class shortly
    Indeed, it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nienniora
    **looking for an updated stat weight since its not updated for the ArP hotfix nerf**
    I would guess that the Redcape values for ArP and Haste will be identical come 3.2.2. 67 on both.

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  18. #18
    Moderator Krekko's Avatar
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    Re: Haste as retripala

    I lost all respect for your post when I read the topic.

    Retripala, retri palla, retri pala, any variation of that sounds just plain retarded. Ret Pally, see how that has a nice, non-retarded ring to it? It just flows off the tongue and gently caresses the ear, as opposed to raping the ear.
    -Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.
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  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Prentice's Avatar
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    Re: Haste as retripala

    Quote Originally Posted by Krekko
    I lost all respect for your post when I read the topic.

    Retripala, retri palla, retri pala, any variation of that sounds just plain retarded. Ret Pally, see how that has a nice, non-retarded ring to it? It just flows off the tongue and gently caresses the ear, as opposed to the raping the ear.
    I knew that a post like this was imminent. Its just like waiting to see when someone will post "Is my prot gear good enough for ...". Its bound to happen every day.

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  20. #20

    Re: Haste as retripala

    is my prot gear good enough for Naxx??

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