retribution, its flaws & its strengths

[Deleted]

Just wait till Cataclysm. And by the way, even the way Ret is now, think about Battlegrounds from the perspective of Retripaladin. Yeah, a lot of survivability. If this is still the case when Cataclysm starts, guess what specific class/spec is going to rock the rated battlegrounds.

[Palatinus]

Just wait till Cataclysm. And by the way, even the way Ret is now, think about Battlegrounds from the perspective of Retripaladin. Yeah, a lot of survivability. If this is still the case when Cataclysm starts, guess what specific class/spec is going to rock the rated battlegrounds.

Shame you still need a high rated arena team to buy the worthwhile gear, let alone to get the max points from the rated BG...

[Deathleech]

When you look at forums you will see the same amount of " my class would use...." on different class forums.

Some classes have it SIGNIFICANTLY easier than others in arena though, and that's what sucks. You can take a moderately skilled arms warrior and resto druid and they will steam roll a really good ret pally and resto shammy simply because their comp is so much better and their classes are stronger in arena at that given time. That's why you see certain classes dominating arena while others struggle.

[Nest]

new Vindication:
All of paladin's damaging attacks have a chance of applying a debuff, reducing enemy's damage done by 10% and healing done/received by 20 %
huh?

No. Paladin's dont need MS, nor do they need a slowing effect of some sort.

[Bohedral]

Grayswandir, I totally agree with you. To all others. Stop hating your paladin, stop dreaming back about the go(o)d and overpowered days, and start loving your paladin as it is! Like Grayswandir, I love my paladin as it is now. I like the playstile and the extras, being it utilities or hybrid-related abilities. Yes I know, sometimes it's very frustrating as a retri to lose an arena match because that DK or Mage totally pwned your ass in kiting and wtfbbqsaucepwn your partner. Shit happens, deal with it, learn from it, get better and start lovin'.


EDIT: Spelling.

[Naesala]

Why do some paladins want a extra tool? Can it be because other classes, lets say ranged got possibility of cc for 90% of time or do they just do too much dmg?

Warlocks got their chaos bolt wich does ridiculous dmg at players with less than 800 resi
shamans got the lava lash that can do about the same amount.

Counter measures against casters Kite!
I'm happy with the current ret pala might not have 800resi yet but I'm still doing good. Nuke, defend, and nuke again, done that's all you need to do well the order might be defend, nuke, defend, nuke then done but however why nerf fol for extra abilities? Ret healers would heal less prot healer might not have the same amount of sp they used to have but they're still fine if handled the right way. Try to find a tact that work for you against casters, melee, stealther or just get a sixth sense of when to do this and that.

Interupt those annoying skills with the hammer, if you're even going to use it.

Flaws: require right tacts against this and that, open for casters on some arena maps.
Strengths: Good timing with abilities and right map for the job, much resi and voila Good Game (don't all classes need to use good tacts or am I just pointing out something obviously?)

Off topic, can anyone tell me how much Damage a full furious/relentless warlock can do with chaos bolt at a full buffed retpala with 1k+ resi?

[Deathleech]

while it's true many classes constantly complain they need this or that, you also have to look at everything else other melee classes have compared to ret paladins. Warriors can do some minimal healing and have decent defenses with their high hp, fear, sword and board + defense stance, and spell reflect. Where they really shine is their offensive utility though. Bladestorm, constant snare, constant gap closer, constant 50% MS and a 10 second interrupt.

It's the same with rogues. They have a snare, MS, tons of stuns, short CD interrupt, better CC than ret, and several defensive CDs on less than a 3 minute timer to keep them alive (Vanish, Evasion, CoS, Sprint, Blind, Sap, Prep to reset timers on all of em). The only thing they have is weak defense, and that's ONLY when they have used up their dozen or so defensive moves.

In comparison though what do ret paladins have? Slightly better healing than a Blood DK, no MS, no interrupt, no snare, no gap closer, and stun a fraction as good as a Rogues? And to make up for all this they get 2 bubbles each on a 5 minute CD, one of which can be dispelled by over half the classes in the game? Rogues have all their defense abilities on less than 3 minutes and have several. Same with DKs, more defensive abilities on shorter CD (and without any drawbacks like no physical dmg done in BoP or 50% reduced in Bubble). And don't even get me started on warriors. They can go sword and board and defensive stance to drastically reduce dmg taken, and already have 4k+ more hp than an equally geared ret pally. Not to mention with talents they can automatically heal as much if not more hp after being crit or stunned as a ret pally can with an actual heal that uses a GCD (same goes for DKs healing).

I am sorry but I don't see how this is fair. We give up TONS of offensive utility for some mediocre healing and 3 decent defense abilities on long CDs with some major draw backs or weaknesses no other classes have. About the only saving grace is Freedom, which has a 25 second CD and can be dispelled or purged, and Sacred Shield. Other than that though most people agree ret paladins are the squishiest of the plate users when they don't have a bubble up. And considering we don't have the half a dozen offensive utility other dps melee do, that's pretty messed up. If they arn't gonna give us more offensive utility then make our defenses at least better than other melee who currently have just as good ones (if not better!), but also all the offense too.

[Astray]

new Vindication:
All of paladin's damaging attacks have a chance of applying a debuff, reducing enemy's damage done by 10% and healing done/received by 20 %
huh?

If you want overpowered pvp abilities, please take another talent to replace. Vindication is a very good pve talent for ret and prot.

[jenseits]

I really don't see what would make ret OP with a simple low CD interrupt. No lockout, no silence, just makes the player have to recast. This would also be key in PVE and would ease the burdon on rogues and wars allowing them to focus more on dps now that another class (yes the pld class should have this not just ret) can handle it as well.