Feral t9

[bavarcarus]

it's not about "wanting" the expertise...it's about which setpiece to get next,to be able to get the most possible out of my char

great..just another short answer that tells nothing about the stat increase,compared to any setboni...
and as I said...there are different ways of getting expertise

I don't like rawr...because normally I just don't need it...I know what's BiS,I know what I can get,and so on

To answer/respond to the questions/statements above I would load your character into rawr and work out an upgrade list. So you don't like rawr because you don't need it. But you want other people to perform the function of rawr for you then explain why rawr's elaborate calcuations into all stats for your class indicate that you should be getting a certain piece of gear?

[Grmmppff]

More likely I'd appreciate a "yes" or "no" to my thoughts on how to improve my equip with the given sources...I'm not asking for advice how to improve it,but asking for affirmation on my thoughts. I don't want anyone to perform the function of rawr...actually I want people to think about it,not just putting their given information in a database

[bavarcarus]

isn't that what I gave you when I said "I'd get the helm?"

when I did that I looked at my rawr max 245 ilvl BiS compilation and compared it to your armory, found some inconsistancies that didn't particularly matter and decided the helm was probably the best choice. You nearly have *my* BiS list lol. (although I need to redo my BiS list with ArP nerf active)

[Grmmppff]

Well not exactly because to a "yes" or "no" I'd like a "why"
the expertise is definitely nice,but I can get it on boots as well
BiS wowhead says the 75 triumph emblems is BiS
and t9,25 compared to the triumph emblem shoulders is a minimum difference. Where we don't have to argue is gloves,I'll get the faction champs hero ones

[Torzak]

The 2T9 set bonus is much better than 2T8 (2T9 works out to 60 energy / minute, whereas 2T8 works out to 42 energy / minute). I've done the math somewhere on this forum to show that.

As true as this may be, I'd like to point out there is more difference than energy per minute in these set bonus comparisons. What about combo point generation/spending?

2PC T9 slows combo point generation assuming you try and maintain the dot of rake as often as possible. Rake was a cheap 35 energy ability that was spammed 3 seconds faster than it is now with 2pc T9. And as such, it was worth more in T8 as far as combo points go than it is now in T9.

Also, T8 allowed more room for Ferocious Bites because of the increased length of Savage Roar. Without those extra 8 seconds, you spend more combo points maintaining Savage Roar instead of spending them elsewhere.

I'm pretty sure the only reason T9 is an upgrade at all, is because of the raw stat upgrade over T8. And I'm pretty sure the set bonus on T9 is really not that strong. Just a gimmicky way to keep us using Rake rather than forgetting about it and simply shredding instead.

[Grmmppff]

well..
having t9 2p on the other hand gives you more often the possibility to shred,instead of reapplying rake.
It's all a give and take I'd say. t8 4p bonus now is no way to keep,because of the stats compared to t9,25
anyway...I think I'll get t9,25 shoulders and get pdk 10 hero stuff

[Paskgotsheal]

As true as this may be, I'd like to point out there is more difference than energy per minute in these set bonus comparisons. What about combo point generation/spending?

2PC T9 slows combo point generation assuming you try and maintain the dot of rake as often as possible. Rake was a cheap 35 energy ability that was spammed 3 seconds faster than it is now with 2pc T9. And as such, it was worth more in T8 as far as combo points go than it is now in T9.

Also, T8 allowed more room for Ferocious Bites because of the increased length of Savage Roar. Without those extra 8 seconds, you spend more combo points maintaining Savage Roar instead of spending them elsewhere.


I'm pretty sure the only reason T9 is an upgrade at all, is because of the raw stat upgrade over T9. And I'm pretty sure the set bonus on T9 is really not that strong. Just a gimmicky way to keep us using Rake rather than forgetting about it and simply shredding instead.

Even with 100% ArP Rake is still better then Shred DPE wise, it's on the first page of Nightcrowlers FBN thread.

[bavarcarus]

well, that's 35 energy that I can use to pop a 12k shred crit while still doing rake dot damage. Most of the time I end up overwriting SR to ensure it stays up anyways. Also it may just be me but I never seem to find a good time to FB unless I'm berserking.

[Torzak]

Even with 100% ArP Rake is still better then Shred DPE wise, it's on the first page of Nightcrowlers FBN thread.

Then what's the point of the below quote, if the situation never comes up? You can find this on page 45 of the very thread you referenced. This portion of the FBN addon was added because Grim Toll/MJ procs were pushing Shred priority higher than rake's. What you're looking at is a comment he made in reference to T7/T8 2pc/2pc gear sets. If you notice, he rarely goes back to edit something he said about a previous tier's gear methodology. You do see some of the theorizing if you read the whole thread though.

- You can put a weight on rake/shred (default is 0.9) based on the relative DPE needed to avoid rake (for istance with 0.9 you avoid rake only if rake does less than 90% of shred DPE.

I've had this option set to .85 and found situations where is suggests shred over rake, and I'm not talking about gimmicky things like thad either.

Edit:
When Rake crits, it only affects the first portion of damage on the attack. When Shred crits, it affects the whole attack. So that said, I'm pretty sure there's more to it than just 100% arpen that would phase it out as an attack. Crit seems like it'd be a variable as well. And more crit tends to come naturally with better gear and it's probably a combination of arpen and crit as to why it was theorized rake would be obsolete in Icecrown. And as near as I could tell, the only reason it wasn't obsolete in BiS T9 is because of the 2pc T9 set bonus.