Patch 3.2 Protadin Guide

[Oracle]

This guide is for newbie protadin through to the high end raider protadin!!

Whats in this guide?
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Well first lets have a little introduction, this guide has everything up to date with Patch 3.2, everyone should be aware that mitigation/avoidance stats have changed since 3.2.

Also if I have missed something important or you would like to add to this then post or pm me and I will edit it...

Below you will find:
Stats
Talents
Enchants
Gems
Glyphs

Talents & Glyphs:
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Lets start with a spec this is a basic Crusade tankadin spec <a href="http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...3">0/53/18</a> this spec provides the best threat and the important damage reduction and avoidance talents, when it comes to the ret tree this is dependent on your raid make up.

Heart of the Crusader:
This talent is a basic ret dps talent so the best thing to do if you have a few ret pallies or have one in the raid all the time, you can drop this talent and grab Benediction.

Improved Judgements: For you to go with the Basic 969 rotation you should have 1 point in this, but seeing as though your other choices are Benediction, Imp Might and HotC then I like to go with 2/2 imp judge. People will say that this wrecks your 969 rotation however all it does is brings your judgement up 1 second earlier which doesn't mean you are going to use it.

Vindication: This talent is fairly important however another member in the raid could be doing this in which case it would be useless BUT if you grab this talent is saves the DPS from doing in turn allowing them to remove it from their rotation and giving them higher DPS output.

Pursuit of Justice: A lot of people like to get this talent because it increases your run speed I myself have never had a problem with picking up or running to a raid member or whatever so I personally wouldn't go for this talent however its personal choice.

Conviction: This talent will increase your threat but a Tankadin should not have any problems with threat, so even if you only put 1 point in this talent and have 2 in Vind and 2 in PoJ then you will reach Crusade.

Crusade: Basically the reason you go down this far into ret, this talent gives a lot of threat and it is important to have it maxed.

That about wraps it up for a good Tankadin spec, again the ret tree comes down to personal choice so you do not have to follow my advice there.

Major Glyphs: Your major glyphs basically comes down to what you are doing but the best choice for basic tanking would be

Mandatory: SoV,DP
Optional : Hammer, Judge, Salv
Situational : Righteous Defense
Crap/PVP :

Glyph of Avenger's Shield: Attacks 1 Target hits for 100% more damge, not a bad glyph for MTs and ranged pulling some things but this glyph isn't worth using in my opinion.

Glyph of Consecration: Increases duration and cooldown by 2sec, this isn't really a good tanking glyph this is mainly used for ret pallies.

and all other Major glyphs...

Minor Glyphs: Minor glyphs aren't a huge worry the important ones are: Glyph of Lay on Hands and Glyph of Sense undead, other than those 2 glyphs go crazy with minor glyphs there are no other important ones for tanking.

Stats:
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Lets look at some Tankadin stats, these stats changed a lot in 3.2 dodge rating copped a decent nerf and it made defense more beneficial for overall avoidance, however dodge rating still has higher diminishing returns compared to parry rating.

Hit/Expertise: I will just link this to Tiltd's Thread on Hit/Expertise, Couldn't have been done better.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/class-paladin/expertisehit-for-paladins-(3-2)/

With your hit and expertise it is not a huge problem not to be hit capped although it is nice if you can get there, don't go out of your way to get hit unless you are really low, it's good to keep hit around 5% and your expertise capped or close to it if possible.

Stamina: This is one of the most important stats, never turn down the chance to put stam on something besides for enchants (see Enchants list below).

Defense: 550 (738 Defense Rating) is best, this is when defense starts to get effected by diminishing returns to much, If you are new to pally tanking and have naxx kind of gear just go with the standard uncritable Defense 540 (689 Defense Rating) although if you are unable to reach that which you should have no problems doing so then 535 defense is fine for heroic instances.

Dodge Rating:
Dodge is the best avoidance and takes longer to hit diminishing returns compared to parry. Aiming for dodge is the best thing to do unless you have achieved 800 dodge rating in which case it is best to go for something else like agility or parry.

Parry Rating: Parry is good avoidance however it hits diminishing returns fairly quickly its good to get parry but you don't want to go for parry trinkets or straight parry gear.

Agility: Agility is good for a lot of things it gives you Crit, Armor and Dodge, Although you don't find agi on plate tank gear so this basically comes from your gems and enchants (see Gems and Enchants Lists below).

Strength: Strength is good for threat and it gives slight mitigation so its not an extremely important tanking stat. Strength will give you Attack Power and Shield Block Value, it is not important to get strength items all the tanking gear will have strength on it and will provide enough.


Gems & Enchants:
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Gems and Enchants are basically decided on your gear stats and socket bonus.

Gems: Never gem for straight avoidance or mitigation, the only stat you will/should gem for is in blue sockets for straight stam gems.

Meta Socket: 32 Stam and 2% Armor is the best meta gem to go for it will give the most survivability and damage reduction. 27 Def and 5% SBV will give you avoidance and slight mitigation with a little bit of threat increase, a tankadin should never really have a threat problem so its best to stick with 32 stam/2%armor meta

Yellow Sockets: Your yellow socket should always be Def/stam unless you are 550+ def, there nothing else that comes from a yellow socket which would be beneficial for a tank unless you are really low on hit you could gem for hit/stam but you can gem straight stam you will miss out on the socket bonus so it is best to way up what is best there is nothing else that comes from a yellow socket which would be beneficial for a tank.

Blue Sockets: All blues sockets should be straight stam.

Red Sockets: Now this is a socket that should always be dodge/stam unless you have reached 800 dodge rating in which you will start gemming for agi/stam.

If your parry is low (15% ish) then I would suggest gemming for parry/stam, however this also depends on your weapon enchant choice.

Prismatic Sockets: All prismatic sockets should be straight Stam gems the same as blue sockets.

Enchants: If after gemming you still have not reached the ideal 550 defense or even 540 for the lower geared tanks then you can most likely achieve it with enchants.

Weapon: Blade ward would be the best decision it procs a lot but if your parry is high then you can go for Titanium Weapon Chain which will give you 28Hit and 50% disarm reduction or +20 agi, this is a tBC chant but is still very good, there isn't to much else to use I would suggest using one of these chants before using blood draining or lifeward.

Shield: Titanium Plating will increase your SBV by 81 this isn't to bad you also have 20 Defense rating and 18 stam, if you don't need the defense rating and you have reached 550 defense then go for either Titanium Plating or 18 stam.

Head: Well there is only really one enchant to use here and that's Argent Crusade - Revered, Arcanum of the Stalwart Protector gives you 37stam and 20def.

Shoulders: Sons of Hodir give 2 tanking enchants I personally wouldn't ever go for stam/resil its a bit of a waste, Greater Inscription of the Pinnacle is the exalted Sons of Hodir enchant which gives you 20dodge/15def.

Back: +16 agi is the best to go for unless you need the defense rating then get +16 def, some people like to get 225 armor but I don't think its worth it.

Chest: A lot of people like to go with 275hp and I see a lot of people go for +10 stats although there is only really a choice between 22def and 275hp really you should get the 22def if you still haven't hit the 550 defense otherwise you could go for the 275hp.

Wrist: +40 stam only thing you can really get and its a great enchant.

Gloves: +20 agi is the way to go here its not worth going with armsman as 10parry and 2% threat isn't a great deal you will get more out of 20agi, threat shouldn't be an issue so the agi will give you crit, dodge and armor, hit or expertise isn't worth wasting the chance to get 20agi or 10parry/2%threat.

Legs: Only one to really use here too, Frost hide Leg armor gives you 55stam and 22agi.

Feet: 15stam/run speed is good if you didn't grab PoJ but as I said early you shouldn't have issues with how far you run, normal run speed should do you fine so I Suggest going with +22stam.

[Ascal]

I really apreciate the effort but..... why?

Besides the guide here on MMO(which is still a fine guide) and the ones on elitist jerks and the ones on tankspot there is a whole frigging website and forum dedicated to prot tanking(maintankadin). there just is no reason for another one.

[Oracle]

I really apreciate the effort but..... why?

Besides the guide here on MMO(which is still a fine guide) and the ones on elitist jerks and the ones on tankspot there is a whole frigging website and forum dedicated to prot tanking(maintankadin). there just is no reason for another one.

does boredom justify?

[Ascal]

does boredom justify?

fair enough

[Oracle]

oh yeh i forgot to mention the amount of people not knowing the difference with 3.2 avoidance for gems and chants etc see it way to much in posts around here..

[Nillo]

Your Glyph section needs to be like this:
Mandatory: SoV,DP
Optional : Hammer,Judge,Salv
Situational : Righteous Defense
Crap/PVP : rest

Yellow Sockets: Your yellow socket should always be Def/stam unless you are 550+ def, there nothing else that comes from a yellow socket which would be beneficial for a tank unless you are really low on hit you could gem for hit/stam but you can gem straight stam you will miss out on the socket bonus so it is best to way up what is best there is nothing else that comes from a yellow socket which would be beneficial for a tank.

Blue Sockets: All blues sockets should be straight stam.

Red Sockets: Now this is a socket that should always be dodge/stam unless you have reached 800 dodge rating in which you will start gemming for agi/stam.

The def _minimum_ is 540 and it is still better than dodge/parry after that....

I really apreciate the effort but..... why?

Besides the guide here on MMO(which is still a fine guide) and the ones on elitist jerks and the ones on tankspot there is a whole frigging website and forum dedicated to prot tanking(maintankadin). there just is no reason for another one.

The protection FAQ in this Forum is horribly outdated and provides a spec that takes 1% crit over crusade !_!

[Oracle]

Your Glyph section needs to be like this:
Mandatory: SoV,DP
Optional : Hammer,Judge,Salv
Situational : Righteous Defense
Crap/PVP : rest

The def _minimum_ is 540 and it is still better than dodge/parry after that....



The protection FAQ in this Forum is horribly outdated and provides a spec that takes 1% crit over crusade !_!

there you go nillo thanks dude

[xdwbx]

While your intentions are good, there are other guides out there that are more thorough.

540 is the minimum for raids and not just for "lower geared" tanks. You should be trying to use the rest of your itemization on stamina (where you can) if you are gearing for hardmodes, not defense. Unfortunately we cannot dodge, block, or parry magic damage and there are a good amount of stacking debuffs that we get where only more stamina will help your healers keep you alive.

The 30 stam 15 resilience shoulder enchant is not a waste.

Some socket bonuses aren't that great. Off the top of my head, Shiver, has a very lackluster socket bonus. Your gems should depend on the socket bonuses, what the rest of your gear looks like, and the content you are on.

The agility weapon enchant is 26. While I personally favor Blade Warding as well, Blood Draining or Accuracy would be my other choices.

I would never go without Pursuit of Justice. There are so many situations where it helps a lot, and even more in ToC hard modes where I consider it invaluable on almost every boss.

In short I would suggestjust go to http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com

[Offhand]

I'm interested in where you got a few breaking points. Specifically in the gemming section.

For instance, why is 550 def recommended? We know 540 is the minimum but what math(s) can you show me that make 550 an important number?

Same for dodge. Why is the breaking point of 800 dodge the point where agi/stam gemming becomes better. What about the dodge/parry breaking point?

[Angella]

This guide is incomplete on how to stack avoidance (should you intend to stack avoidance). Go check out http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...rb_v=viewtopic

The main message is that you want to stack dodge, defense, and parry rating in a 2.4 : 1.8 : 1 ratio after you reach 689 def, 96 dodge, and 64 parry.

[Copain]

The problem with guides that talk about what you should have for talents, is that half of it is not required. There are Cookie cutter specs for just about anything, but tanking is all about YOUR situation or opinions.


Sure, I could grab more threat instead of a damage reducter or recieve more healing. But say I already hold threat just fine, why get more threat? Especially if you are progressing, if you do not need more threat, why not just get something to help you survive?


Also, as Offhand mentioned, why is 550 the magical number? Things may change a bit there, and it might even be best to go there, but you need to prove that, with a formula, not just say it is because you said so =p.



IMO, a tanking guide sohuld just list all of the stuff each talent would do (Such as each talent gives you this much more Threat or this much more mitigation), not something telling you how to make your char.

[Alenko]

avoidance is always better than stam imo, when geming I use the Def/BV meta and red sockets = straight dodge blue = stam and yellow usually = straight dodge unless I don't need anymore (if Im at 102.3%, which oddly you never mentioned in your guide)

[Nillo]

avoidance is always better than stam imo,
when geming I use the Def/BV meta and
red sockets = straight dodge
blue = stam
and yellow usually = straight
dodge unless I don't need anymore (if Im at 102.3%, which oddly you never mentioned in your guide)

1)Never
2)There are only a few places where block value shines and EH does not (Anub'arak adds for example) usually stam/armor is the better meta
3) see 1 use agi/stam or dodge/stam or pure stam instead
4) First you use a pure dodge and now you use a pure stam - doesn't make sense
5) def>dodge -> you fail
6) the "avoidance cap" is 97.4% combined dodge+miss+parry+block (100%+0.2% * 3 level difference * 4 (dodge+miss+parry+block) - 5% miss from boss)

[Copain]

Again, tanking is just a matter of what you think. The EH V mitigation arguement has been going on a long time.

I like to do a mix. I hae a high amount of Dodge and a good amount of stam. I could have less dodge and obtain more HP, but that is not what I want.

[Nillo]

Again, tanking is just a matter of what you think. The EH V mitigation arguement has been going on a long time.

I like to do a mix. I hae a high amount of Dodge and a good amount of stam. I could have less dodge and obtain more HP, but that is not what I want.

... mitigation is part of the EH ... and avoidance is _not_ mitigation ...

[Copain]

Eh, then I am sorry =p.

I admit I do not know most of the terms people use. So I have considered EH to be health and Avoidence and such to be mitigation.

EDIT: Regardless, the point still stands that there is not a lot of good info in this guide, and it is mostly justifying the high threat cookie cutter spec.

[Angella]

I personally stack stamina and bring along avoidance/EH (read: armor) trinkets for when its worth switching to something else.