Would this be a new arcane spec for PVE ????

[Caeldeth]

Re: Icy Shards vs Frost Warding - it's a matter of opinion or preference so no-one is right or wrong.

The fact is that we can agree none of us chose to put points in either because we wanted that talent, but that it was a case of where else could we put them as we needed access to the next tier.

My personal opinion is whilst I'm a mana machine I don't need warding, ever. Icy Shards has some utility to me, so I took that. Given the choice I'd rather keep the points, spend them elsewhere and STILL have Icy Veins.

maybe if you dont work on progression material, if you do Warding is superior it isnt a discussion

[InsaneGamer81]

pfft What kinda talk is that? If you don't use InsaneGamer81's spec you're retarted. :

Well you can change a couple things about my spec for personal gear but yes Use my spec, for progression purposes.

[Kargotha]

Use Arcane explosion or for ic medium go frostfire .. champ

My point wasn't the spec, idiot. It was that you stated that blizzard shouldn't be used at all. Arcane explosion on freya + 3 is ludicrous. Good luck using Arcane explosion in the middle of dying detonator, plus the disadvantage it is to the raid to not have the detonators with a slow on them.

[mike349]

My point wasn't the spec, idiot. It was that you stated that blizzard shouldn't be used at all. Arcane explosion on freya + 3 is ludicrous. Good luck using Arcane explosion in the middle of dying detonator, plus the disadvantage it is to the raid to not have the detonators with a slow on them.

You know the comment you quoted is like 15 days old.

[Arctan-Aggramar]

My point wasn't the spec, idiot. It was that you stated that blizzard shouldn't be used at all. Arcane explosion on freya + 3 is ludicrous. Good luck using Arcane explosion in the middle of dying detonator, plus the disadvantage it is to the raid to not have the detonators with a slow on them.

No offense, but AE is just fine for freya+3. In fact, I prefer it. The lashers have no aggro table anyway, so standing apart from the raid makes them more scattered and less susceptible to initial aoe. Plus, I like how AE is more controlled with respect to mana (no pushback, wasted channel time), not to mention the fact that it procs endless clearcasting

That said, I take Ice Shards in my spec over Frost Warding :P

[Aristodemos87]

I know more bossfights in general where you benifit more from Frostwarding than from Ice shards.
In ToC (normal or heroic) there are no fights where Ice shards can be usefull and Frost Warding is usefull for every single fight.

Take Ice shards if you want to do competitive Dps on trash in Naxx even if other specs will put out more AoE dps.

[Skarrd]

not worth it. 6% crit on 60-70% of your dmg is irreplacable. i considered this a while ago and thought better of it. also, you have to drop utility talents in arcane in order to do this (MA, IA).

also, frost warding is the single best talent you take going to IV. /end.

[Kargotha]

No offense, but AE is just fine for freya+3. In fact, I prefer it. The lashers have no aggro table anyway, so standing apart from the raid makes them more scattered and less susceptible to initial aoe. Plus, I like how AE is more controlled with respect to mana (no pushback, wasted channel time), not to mention the fact that it procs endless clearcasting

That said, I take Ice Shards in my spec over Frost Warding :P

Arcane explosion is fine at first, except when you need to get out, or detonators will gib you. That's when the advantage of improved blizzard really comes into it's own.

[prettyponymonster]

You can keep Incineration. The thing with getting Frost Channeling is if it better than Arcane Meditation.

This debate would be 50% mana regen while casting OR 10% mana reduction on all spells.

My spec for Frost Channeling I just made up - 50/3/18:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...uPta,3qJ,10433

My spec for Arcane Meditation - Or my version of the cookie cutter 57/3/11:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...E11O,3qJ,10433


With mana not being the problem for many mages anymore, it seems obsolete to change up the cookie cutter spec. Besides the fact that Mind Mastery would take a blow for Incineration.

[Skarrd]

maybe if you dont work on progression material, if you do Warding is superior it isnt a discussion

It depends entirely upon the content. I always run with frost warding, but if there is a fight that requires short high dps aoe and the rest of the fight is all single target, the extra crit on blizzard would win. Especially if there was no frost or fire damage in the fight. I don't think It'll ever be a choice I'll have to make (since it'll probably either be a full aoe spec as FFB, a partial aoe spec as fireball, or a full single target as arcane).

Both of them have advantages, it is a discussion and depends 100% on the fight. Think hardmode freya, if in fact arcane was viable when this fight was relevant, ice shards would be superior for aoeing the lashers. sure, you can say "lashers do fire damage" but if you're doing 3 tree freya and taking their fire damage, you're doing it wrong. The aoe is much more important in this fight, while the warding is useless. Of course, i believe fire would be a better spec for freya giving all of the multiple targets for living bomb to work it's magic on, but that is beside the point.