Flame Shock coming into Enh rotation with 4pc T9?

[bebos]

I'm a little confused now. Could someone state clearly whether the new shock rotation is FS-ES-ES or FS-ES-ES-ES and how Reverberation affects this?

[Elementium]

I'm a little confused now. Could someone state clearly whether the new shock rotation is FS-ES-ES or FS-ES-ES-ES and how Reverberation affects this?

Judging from levvas post I'm assuming we are using Flame Shock Again. sounds cool to be honest, I was hoping we could get a couple more things to watch out for.

[lyth]

As far as shock rotations, I found it easier to keep up a FS, ES, ES rotation.

With MW procs and keeping up lavalash/SS I found that a lot easier. The issue I found sometimes though if MW was slow to proc, my FS would still have 3-4 seconds left and clipping the last tics is not worth it. So I would cast a third ES and use my other abilities before the cooldown was up again.


So I look at is as get at least 2 ES's in and if there is 4-5 seconds left on the dot, hit ES instead.

[Oneleg]

As far as shock rotations, I found it easier to keep up a FS, ES, ES rotation.

With MW procs and keeping up lavalash/SS I found that a lot easier. The issue I found sometimes though if MW was slow to proc, my FS would still have 3-4 seconds left and clipping the last tics is not worth it. So I would cast a third ES and use my other abilities before the cooldown was up again.


So I look at is as get at least 2 ES's in and if there is 4-5 seconds left on the dot, hit ES instead.

This is what I was doing last night in ToC 10 man, and it seemed to work pretty well. Just have to figure out a better binding for FS / ES to make it easier.

Is there a flameshock duration timer in ShockandAwe? I thought there was but wasnt able to find it last night.



side note, holy crap did they nerf the hell out of 10 man faction champs in TogC. Was nice to see Twins, and Anub finally.

[Spaceinvader]

Is there a flameshock duration timer in ShockandAwe? I thought there was but wasnt able to find it last night.

No, but you can add FS to your priority list and there is an option to show FS in your priority frame only if X seconds or less are left on the dot timer. So you can set up your priority frame to correctly tell you when to FS but there isn't a separate timer bar to monitor the debuff, if that makes sense. But I imagine Levva would add a debuff timer if the FS math pans when tested in the sim.

[Prinnyabomination]

I did a little bit of testing, but not nearly enough to warrant any concise opinions. I think people are thinking too hard about clipping the dot or trying to fit the perfect amount in. Don't we have a priority system? I mean, I can't get shocks out every time it comes off the CD, simply due to the fact that I may have a LB I need to flang out there.

From what I've been doing, is going about the regular roto for the most part, and throwing in FS when I have no SS charges up, and there is no FS dot up as well. So generally I'll do 3 ES after the FS, since the actual loss of damage from not refreshing FS at the exact right time, probably will equal out to the damage lost from prioritizing shocks so that you will have your FS up perfectly.
(hopefully that makes sense to some people, probably could have typed it better)

Either way, that is my take. I could be completely wrong.

[lyth]

Yes, Leeva is definitely on top of things. Thanks so much for that btw. I am sure something like that will come along.


I actually made some custom frames with Satrina buffs. One for Magma totem and one for flame shock. The magma totem looks at my buffs and only shows the magma totem buff. I also have it hidden unless active. That way I know whether or not it is down at all times.

For Flame shock I have another frame dedicated to that. I have it looking for debuffs on the target and counting down the remaining time. It then flashes when there is less than 5 seconds.

I have both of these on opposite sides of my priority frame. This really helps, since I can keep watch of the timers.
Tonight I am also going to create a power aura setup for the flame shock debuff. That way I have 2 reminders of when it is time to cast it. So when I see a bright orange flame around me, time to cast it.

[lyth]

I did a little bit of testing, but not nearly enough to warrant any concise opinions. I think people are thinking too hard about clipping the dot or trying to fit the perfect amount in. Don't we have a priority system? I mean, I can't get shocks out every time it comes off the CD, simply due to the fact that I may have a LB I need to flang out there.

From what I've been doing, is going about the regular roto for the most part, and throwing in FS when I have no SS charges up, and there is no FS dot up as well. So generally I'll do 3 ES after the FS, since the actual loss of damage from not refreshing FS at the exact right time, probably will equal out to the damage lost from prioritizing shocks so that you will have your FS up perfectly.
(hopefully that makes sense to some people, probably could have typed it better)

Either way, that is my take. I could be completely wrong.

That is kind of what I was talking about. It is hard with a priority system to ever get an exact rotation down. So depending on how much time is left on the dot I decide to cast another FS or ES. If there is 2-3 seconds left ill just recast a FS. 5+ Ill do an ES. Since you know other abilities will be ready at a higher priority anyway.

...on another note. I was pretty much doing my normal priority with lava lash basically last and I still had an 80%+ uptime on my buff. Well 1 minor change...I did at LL as my first attack. This allowed me to start off with the buff. After that though, I only hit it after everything else not even worrying about the buff.


I love the priority system more than a rotation by a long shot. However starting to throw in #1 as LL buff is down tied with MW*5 #2 flame shock if no SS buff, ES_SS,SS, ES and so on just starts to make things a mess. Honestly that's a lot to track while in melee range. I guess ill have to start focusing on that priority frame a lot more.

[FieldEffect]

Along these lines, has anyone looked into a 20/51 build like http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?sham...oDJG,O9r,10482 with the 4 piece T 9 bonus?

-Loose all mana conservation, and 1 point in imp shields, but you increase your ES damage effectively by 16.7%

FS... +5... ES... +5... ES.. + 5... ES + 3.. [FSdot dies]... + 2 FS.

There was some talk about 2/5 reverb, seems like this would be better since you get the highest uptime without clipping vs.

FS ... + 6 ... ES ... +6 ... ES ...+6 ... [FSdot dies] (make a choice? - probably FS)


I wonder too if it is worth glyph of shocking at this point, so you can make your shock rotation your main priority, and not worry about sitting on a full GCD when MSW procs

[aikouka]

I do agree with Flame Shock being in the rotation now because of the extended duration, but I don't agree with the glyph being better than other options. I currently use Glyph of Lightning Shield still and based on my spell crit rate and the amount of Flame Shock DoT ticks I had, the Lightning Shield glyph still provided more damage overall (around 9k vs 17k). This was done on the Northrend Beasts encounter where (especially on Icehowl) the fight isn't always tailored to being in melee range, but it isn't as hard to be in shock range (especially since it was recently boosted to 25 yards). So that fact actually gives Flame Shock a bit of an artificial boost. I'm also pretty certain I didn't have any Snobolds on me to artificially boost my LS discharges, but I can't be 100% certain... especially since one could hit me if it was on another nearby melee player anyway.

Even if you factor in the T9 set bonuses, having a theoretical 50% boost in the number of static shock procs will simply boost the 20% bonus by another 50%. If shock damage is increased by 20%, then the bonus provided by the glyph will only go up by 20%.

Although I will admit that it has been awhile since I've had to weave in Flame Shock (haven't had to since WotLK came out), so I was a tiny bit rusty, but even with a small boost to the numbers to make up for human error, the LS glyph still would come out ahead. Most of my errors were actually using Wind Shear when I didn't mean to since I had to shift over Wind Shear and Magma/Searing Totem (I switch them based on the encounter) to make room.

[Deleted]

Judging from levvas post I'm assuming we are using Flame Shock Again. sounds cool to be honest, I was hoping we could get a couple more things to watch out for.

No the jury is still out.

[Deleted]

Is there a flameshock duration timer in ShockandAwe? I thought there was but wasnt able to find it last night.

Not yet there will be in v4.6

[Deleted]

I did a little bit of testing, but not nearly enough to warrant any concise opinions. I think people are thinking too hard about clipping the dot or trying to fit the perfect amount in. Don't we have a priority system? I mean, I can't get shocks out every time it comes off the CD, simply due to the fact that I may have a LB I need to flang out there.

From what I've been doing, is going about the regular roto for the most part, and throwing in FS when I have no SS charges up, and there is no FS dot up as well. So generally I'll do 3 ES after the FS, since the actual loss of damage from not refreshing FS at the exact right time, probably will equal out to the damage lost from prioritizing shocks so that you will have your FS up perfectly.
(hopefully that makes sense to some people, probably could have typed it better)

Either way, that is my take. I could be completely wrong.

Spot on FINALLY someone who gets it and isn't talking crap about rotations and FS-ES-ES or FS-ES-ES-ES or that sort of nonsense.

[FieldEffect]

I did a little bit of testing, but not nearly enough to warrant any concise opinions. I think people are thinking too hard about clipping the dot or trying to fit the perfect amount in. Don't we have a priority system? I mean, I can't get shocks out every time it comes off the CD, simply due to the fact that I may have a LB I need to flang out there.

From what I've been doing, is going about the regular roto for the most part, and throwing in FS when I have no SS charges up, and there is no FS dot up as well. So generally I'll do 3 ES after the FS, since the actual loss of damage from not refreshing FS at the exact right time, probably will equal out to the damage lost from prioritizing shocks so that you will have your FS up perfectly.
(hopefully that makes sense to some people, probably could have typed it better)

Either way, that is my take. I could be completely wrong.

when you talk about doing 3 ES in between, are you speccing into 5/5 reverb? if you do 3 ES w/o 5/5 reverb you are waiting at least 24 sec (probably more like 26 sec since like u said, u need to send out that MSW LB even if the shock is cooled) between FS casts. Am I missing that the general consensus is for 20/51 build now? I made a post a little while ago but have not gotten any direct feedback. Seems like the 5/5 reverb would make the 3 ES with only 2 to 4 sec of downtime on the dot better than the 6 to 8 sec of downtime without reverb.

And on this note, the shocking glyph would let you feel a little less guilty about shocking when you have 4 MSW charges when trying to maintain the rotation.

Before I get jumped on too, I understand that it's not worth it to worry about clipping, but it is good to strive for the highest uptime, seems like the glyph of shocking and the reverb spec would get you that.

[Deleted]

I was under the impression that FS for its full duration produces more dps than ES-SS. If true, you don't need to worry about if you have SS charges or not when refreshing, all you need to worry about is the MW5 stack.

Saying all that i am struggling with this, and really looking foward to SSA being updated to work with FS.

[Deleted]

Used "/castsequence reset=combat/target/18 Flame Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock" macro instead normal Earth Shock & Flame Shock glyph instead Windfury one for whole raid yesterday and the DPS gain seemed very minor. Was quite surprised to see in the logs later that due to this macro I Flame Shocked about 40% of the time and probably clipped the dot quite a bit(2/5 reverb). Looks like I won't get out of binding Flame Shock to another key and manage keeping the dot up manually if I want to get some proper DPS boost from using Flame Shock. WMO of a simple tank'n spank fight with just ES & one with FS/ES/ES macro.

[Deleted]

No matter how I pull it, I find it extremely hard to "time" flame shocks for full duration. GCD, procs, everything is taken into account. Sometimes MW stacks extremely fast, and sometimes it feels slow. About FieldEffects build, I'd never go for that unless I can be sure that I'd NEVER run out of mana, in this case I can't, I really have to use Shamanistic Rage on every cd to be sure I always have mana, even with my current spec. No imp SS, shamanistic focus and 5 points in reverberation would most likely cause me to go oom before SR is up again. This is me though, I don't have 4pc of T9 nor have I raided with a guild for ages, but if you're raiding with 24 other people and have all mana regeneration abilities available, and still don't need SF or Imp SS, I wonder why this wasn't taken into account before.
Just my thoughts

[Deleted]

Used "/castsequence reset=combat/target/18 Flame Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock" macro instead normal Earth Shock & Flame Shock glyph instead Windfury one for whole raid yesterday and the DPS gain seemed very minor. Was quite surprised to see in the logs later that due to this macro I Flame Shocked about 40% of the time and probably clipped the dot quite a bit(2/5 reverb). Looks like I won't get out of binding Flame Shock to another key and manage keeping the dot up manually if I want to get some proper DPS boost from using Flame Shock. WMO of a simple tank'n spank fight with just ES & one with FS/ES/ES macro.

As stated before the number of ES per FS will vary heavily depending on procs etc. However one thing stands in that the DoT lasts 18 secs. The problem you were likely having was that in a raid setup you were hitting points were you could use shocks more than 2 times per 18 secs.

However the castsequence reset option will reset its self after the specified number of seconds no matter how many spells you have in the sequence. So adding a few more earth shocks into the macro should solve it.

Maybe try

/castsequence reset=combat/target/18 Flame Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock

That way it should not get to the end of the sequence before the 18th sec where it resets to the start.

In theory it should mean no clipping.

I understand what was stated above about cast sequences macros, but i just don't have enough action bars at the min to do it manually.

[Deleted]

As stated before the number of ES per FS will vary heavily depending on procs etc. However one thing stands in that the DoT lasts 18 secs. The problem you were likely having was that in a raid setup you were hitting points were you could use shocks more than 2 times per 18 secs.

However the castsequence reset option will reset its self after the specified number of seconds no matter how many spells you have in the sequence. So adding a few more earth shocks into the macro should solve it.

Maybe try

/castsequence reset=combat/target/18 Flame Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock, Earth Shock

That way it should not get to the end of the sequence before the 18th sec where it resets to the start.

In theory it should mean no clipping.

I understand what was stated above about cast sequences macros, but i just don't have enough action bars at the min to do it manually.

I actually tried the macro with 3 Earth Shocks and the result was that Flame Shock fell off for long periods. It took a lot longer than 18 sec for the macro to use Flame Shock again, so i checked wowwiki about the timer reset condition and it says "<number> - The number of seconds since the last click". So the reset=18 won't actually help us in keeping the dot up as it resets counter every time you press macro. Could be optimal to use FS,ESx3 sequence though with 5/5 reverb and no 4pcT8.

[Deleted]

Drat, then i need more fingers

I guess a modifier macro might be the next best thing. Normal click cast earth shock and ctr click cast FS.