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  1. #1

    Blizzard is sorry for dk's :P

    I am sorry but reading the post about how blizzard made mistakes made me laugh. They say that they have no problem owning up to their sins but pretty much the whole thing was based on how they talked to beta testers and beta testers miss leaded them.
    ..



    As we started to work on the DK, we talked to PvP and PvE players who were comfortable with the BC status quo. What I mean is that raid leaders told us they didn't have room for DKs and Arena teams told us they didn't see the need to replace anyone on their team (especially a melee class without MS). Partially to counter this attitude, we gave the DKs a lot of different tools to handle different situations. They became a little too versatile. (Later, part of the big buff / debuff overhaul was designed to fix the same situation.)

    3) I think this was one of those cases where we listened to the community, especially the beta participants, a little too much. Players had totally legit concerns about say the DK being too kiteable or the DK tank not having an answer for physical damage or whatever. Since we didn't have a ton of history or personal experience to fall back on and couldn't analyze a lot of data from live servers, we probably gave players the benefit of the doubt too often and added or buffed abilities when we didn't need to. More hardcore PvP and raid testing on the beta or PTR might help as well, since a lot of those concerns were born of solo experiences or pure speculation.

    4) I think the fact that we showered the DK in blue items and mounts (to help them level up to the Northrend content quickly) and all of the effort we put into the start zone helped lead to the perception of favoritism. It feels weird to suggest we should have made the starting experience less epic to just to tone it down. On the other hand, maybe there was a way to communicate our goals better. A lot of players took the "hero class" thing (which really only meant that we modeled them after the Warcraft III heroes) to mean they should be overpowered, which was never our intent


    I dont argue that the dks have been on the stong side, i have a dk myself and seeing what my class can do i do think that some nerfs were desperately needed. I was watching a video the other night of how a dk prot 2v2 combo DK being a mouseclicker would dominate the stage.

    I never thought i needed an explanation of why my class changed so dramatically and for those that will argue that it didnt either you dont know your dk well or you dont have one. Dk's are probably the ONLY class that in every patch they leran to tank dps and pvp with a different spec. However, if someone wishes to give an explanation i believe that it needs to be real. We got miss leaded by beta testers is horseshit. There was no room for dks in raid that is also a lie too. In Tbc there was no room for a lot of classes at time, especially during BT where after Nihilum killed Illidan in a week everybode started stacking up on rogues and pallys.

    I would like to hear sorry that our marketing failed, i would also like to hear the truth that if we presented dks as they are today maybe new people would not see the point of buying the game.

    Anyway just wanted to throw it out there. Keep the nerfs coming we are still standing :P RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE and such :P.

  2. #2

    Re: Blizzard is sorry for dk's :P

    Actually if u read the whole thing they also said dk's were the most polished class they've ever had and the original classes were/are clogged up with useless talents/bad orginazation of talents. As far as abilities go dk's have the abilities that blizz wanted to them to have.

    Thus blizz had to back track and nerf nerf nerf dk's to bring them inline with the other classes. Cata should fix alot of this imbalance when they get a chance to polish the other classes like they mentioned.


  3. #3

    Re: Blizzard is sorry for dk's :P

    Well you are right I should not be unfair, but even that sounds ok with you.

    So what they basically say is that they made a great class and istead of improving every other class's talent tree they transformed something great into something mediocre!!!

    honestly even there i dont see much point for their thread.

    Also Dk do have useless talent trees, as is the will of the necropolis for example which is low on the blood tree having absolutely no purpose there.

  4. #4

    Re: Blizzard is sorry for dk's :P

    the reality is that DKs could handle any situation, whereas other classes not called "paladin" couldn't

    either there should be hard counters to a class in pve/pvp or they should give all classes the ability to handle everything in varying degrees. right now, there aren't enough penalties for a class that is specced into tree Y instead of tree X

    look at priests. holy doesn't do damage worth a crap except for a short burst. it costs an spriest a ton of mana to heal. disc is a mixture of both, but are the weakest pvp healers (in terms of mana pool, regen and throughput) while having more damage dealing ability than other healers (which didn't scale with HP pools, sadly).....

    priests seem to be 'about where blizz wants them' since the changes between patch 3.0 until the current patch have priests in about the same spots, while other classes seem to have changed quite a bit.

  5. #5

    Re: Blizzard is sorry for dk's :P

    I can sort of understand Blizz's position about making sure we dont have a repeat of TBC where raids intentionally stack x number of shamans so they could chain Heroism/Bloodlust back to back and just own bosses. TBC really made raids etc fill specific classes to only perform 1 role that the class absolutely excelled in OR brought a singular buff that was monstrously powerful.

    However, the claim by Blizz about being misled by the testers and players is simple fingerpointing, and a horrible excuse. A lot of Blizzard employees based on posts they make indicate that they play the game as well. How hard is it to do some of your own damn internal testing to figure out if an ability really is 'overpowered' or just needs to be tweaked a bit. Sheesh.

    As Nexus said, some of the issue too goes with how dks were very polished and the other classes still had some crappy talent choices etc. To me though, they really should have taken a look at the other classes and tried to polish them as well or something. Instead we are now waiting (very cleverly on Blizz's part) to see what these mystical class changes will be in Cataclysm. Haha.

  6. #6

    Re: Blizzard is sorry for dk's :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Watermage
    Well you are right I should not be unfair, but even that sounds ok with you.

    So what they basically say is that they made a great class and istead of improving every other class's talent tree they transformed something great into something mediocre!!!

    honestly even there i dont see much point for their thread.

    Also Dk do have useless talent trees, as is the will of the necropolis for example which is low on the blood tree having absolutely no purpose there.

    Will of the necropolis used to be very good before they nerfed it as i recall.

    Your right instead of fixing the other classses to bring them in line with dk's they nerfed us down to bring us in line with them. This was partly because wrath was already out and fixing every other class would have been a massive overhaul and would have completely screwed up the current raiding/pvp system for the entire expansion.

    They stated at blizzcon that they are looking at an overhaul of the talent system which will give everyone (what im expecting will be ) a massive boost in dps and fix the remaining imbalances that adding another class has brought

  7. #7

    Re: Blizzard is sorry for dk's :P

    I guess we can turn this into the hybrid class discussion howeverthere are a few things that need to be mentioned

    Dk can do multiple things well yes but they cannot do it with one spec, what blizzard i think failed to see and DID not include in their sorry post is that unholy can tank dps and pvp but it takes considerable spreading of the talents to do all that right, now granted priest cannot heal in shadow talent tree but they can dps and pvp as shadow again by changing the talents in their tree.

    however i am sorry to say but other classes such as druuds and pallas can heal Dps and tank which is not the dks case.


    I dont think the problem lies with the talents or the class but with the fact that blizzard will now even nerf the ability of dks to wear plates

  8. #8

    Re: Blizzard is sorry for dk's :P

    TL;DR

    Signed,

    Miss Leaded

  9. #9

    Re: Blizzard is sorry for dk's :P

    typing fast and automatic diction programs :P sorry

    mislead there

  10. #10

    Re: Blizzard is sorry for dk's :P

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDrewww
    Your stupidity astounds me.
    ^^ support, death knights are fantastic classes and without them u would have not got as far in raiding as u have done today (id b surprised if uve done any) now gtfo our forums

    blizzard are smart enough not to make a statement offending hundreds of thousands of players who use a DK, use ur brain..

    TY! Solid

  11. #11

    Re: Blizzard is sorry for dk's :P

    i love how people use the excuse that they have done raiding were most of them probably started raiding around the middle of TBC. so please Shut the fuck up.making a dk was not just a no brainer in the beginning. Hunter were much more powerful than dk and even now i can see rogues being way up there.

    Blizzard has departments, the department of wow which is quite large has people,
    people make mistakes.

    when you get a comment with number one being something like we messed up and then get 4 points of how they got all their information from beta testers sorry to say its frankly stupid.

    I have raided with my dwarf priest during vanilla and frankly i had tons of problems then, i have raided again with my dwarf priest during TBC and my undead warrior and again i had issues, issues that i found resolved with the dk class.

    In the beginning dk were OP and some changes needed to be made but what i see right now is little kids who finally get a piece of the pie and can swear and stuff. Please do not bore me with your stupidity of how dks are the superb classes and i wouldnt advance if that wasnt the case. Unlike some classes at least dk take rotations which is why the young population of blizzard does not understand how to play them.

    you give money to blizzard and i give money to blizzard and when i have to see my class being nerfed everytime in such a way that another spec may be more viable than what i was playing but i have to learn how to dps or tank differently then i becomes anooying to say the least.

    I do not miss the onyxia days the c'thun rotations and the fucking four horsemen fight which was equally hard for healers as was for melee because you had to heal all the noobs that wouldnt get out of the dots in time.

    dks are perfect even now with all the nerfs but perhaps blizzard should look into apologizing to all other classes that they didnt want to spend time changes like warriors improved rend in vanilla and TBC. Problem is that people with small penises kinda like you are stuck with what is.. just because a blizzard employ posted something that doesnt make it right because it was he who wrote it

  12. #12

    Re: Blizzard is sorry for dk's :P

    someone is obviously butthurt and a horrible at grammar/sentence structure.

    DKs are fine, everyone is fine, everyone will be tweaked from time to time. DKs got a lot of tweaking to make up for the 4 years other classes have had to be worked on.

  13. #13

    Re: Blizzard is sorry for dk's :P

    If you think Blizz's soft hand with DK nerfs early in WolK was due to a slight "mistake" you are delusional. All other classes were quickly nerfed and/or hot-fixed when they were deemed OP (arcane mages, survival hunters, ret pallies) yet DKs were met with slight tweaking even though the forums were flooded with requests to nerf them. This was a business decision pure and simple. Blizz wasnt going to nerf their golden child and main selling point of WoLK too early before they can lock onto those subscriptions.

    It was shady, it was bait and switch, and it was typical Blizzard.

  14. #14

    Re: Blizzard is sorry for dk's :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Exordium
    someone is obviously butthurt and a horrible at grammar/sentence structure.

    DKs are fine, everyone is fine, everyone will be tweaked from time to time. DKs got a lot of tweaking to make up for the 4 years other classes have had to be worked on.

  15. #15

    Re: Blizzard is sorry for dk's :P

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDrewww
    Your stupidity astounds me.
    I second that!!

    support++

  16. #16

    Re: Blizzard is sorry for dk's :P

    0/32/39 spec, good times, miss it > they can nerf abilities but i want my spec back.

  17. #17

    Re: Blizzard is sorry for dk's :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Watermage
    i love how people use the excuse that they have done raiding were most of them probably started raiding around the middle of TBC. so please Shut the fuck up.making a dk was not just a no brainer in the beginning. Hunter were much more powerful than dk and even now i can see rogues being way up there.

    Blizzard has departments, the department of wow which is quite large has people,
    people make mistakes.

    when you get a comment with number one being something like we messed up and then get 4 points of how they got all their information from beta testers sorry to say its frankly stupid.

    I have raided with my dwarf priest during vanilla and frankly i had tons of problems then, i have raided again with my dwarf priest during TBC and my undead warrior and again i had issues, issues that i found resolved with the dk class.

    In the beginning dk were OP and some changes needed to be made but what i see right now is little kids who finally get a piece of the pie and can swear and stuff. Please do not bore me with your stupidity of how dks are the superb classes and i wouldnt advance if that wasnt the case. Unlike some classes at least dk take rotations which is why the young population of blizzard does not understand how to play them.

    you give money to blizzard and i give money to blizzard and when i have to see my class being nerfed everytime in such a way that another spec may be more viable than what i was playing but i have to learn how to dps or tank differently then i becomes anooying to say the least.

    I do not miss the onyxia days the c'thun rotations and the fucking four horsemen fight which was equally hard for healers as was for melee because you had to heal all the noobs that wouldnt get out of the dots in time.

    dks are perfect even now with all the nerfs but perhaps blizzard should look into apologizing to all other classes that they didnt want to spend time changes like warriors improved rend in vanilla and TBC. Problem is that people with small penises kinda like you are stuck with what is.. just because a blizzard employ posted something that doesnt make it right because it was he who wrote it
    yes.. i totally agree that Dks were OP to begin with, and that was blizzards mistake, dks have been nerfed and now are a decent class, in total balance with others, if it was impossible to win a fight against a dk i would agree with you, but its very easy, the times ive been wasted by ret and holy palas, and even disc preists is massive, but just because they beat me in a fight doesnt mean they should b ripped out of the game. Hundrads of thoudsands of people play Dk's, blizards would not make a statement offending all of them, they are smarter than that.

    We were OP, now we are even, get that into ur head and next time think again before putting such a stupid thread on our forums.

    Thanks, Solidshock

  18. #18

    Re: Blizzard is sorry for dk's :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Watermage
    Well you are right I should not be unfair, but even that sounds ok with you.

    So what they basically say is that they made a great class and istead of improving every other class's talent tree they transformed something great into something mediocre!!!

    honestly even there i dont see much point for their thread.

    Also Dk do have useless talent trees, as is the will of the necropolis for example which is low on the blood tree having absolutely no purpose there.



    "honestly even there i dont see much point for their thread."

    Honestly I see NO point in yours.

    Its been a year, give it up already. Nobody wants to here you bitch and whine anymore.

    Pointless thread is pointless
    walls o' textual eyerape
    IT'S ALL FUN AND GAMES UNTIL SOMEONE LOSES THEIR ANAL VIRGINITY

  19. #19

    Re: Blizzard is sorry for dk's :P

    Solid dude I am sooo sorry i posted on your forums, i feel as guilty as committing murder.

    The point for the thread was not to whine about dks. I apologize for the bad sentence structure didnt go back to read it. However, please once again you want to state your point that dks are fine and i agree. my point is that if someone wants to apologize for the nerfs let them at least tell the truth because unlike you i was a beta tester for tbc and i dont appreciate it when someone blames me for their mistakes.

    And honestly solid dude if you are the person that i found in the armory please shut the fuck up and at least get into some more content before you post in OUR forums.

  20. #20

    Re: Blizzard is sorry for dk's :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Watermage
    Solid dude I am sooo sorry i posted on your forums, i feel as guilty as committing murder.

    The point for the thread was not to whine about dks. I apologize for the bad sentence structure didnt go back to read it. However, please once again you want to state your point that dks are fine and i agree. my point is that if someone wants to apologize for the nerfs let them at least tell the truth because unlike you i was a beta tester for tbc and i dont appreciate it when someone blames me for their mistakes.

    And honestly solid dude if you are the person that i found in the armory please shut the fuck up and at least get into some more content before you post in OUR forums.
    this post has totally confused me.... :-\ i really dont know what to say haha!

    Solid

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