Thread: Holy Pally

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  1. #21

    Re: Holy Pally

    I myself am an int stacker and have always been an int stacker, using DP basically when either my greatness trinket procs or I know when the Shammy in my group is going to drop tide or our priest will use Divine Hymn. It's pretty much always on cooldown. I'm in a guild who is 4/5 heroic ToGC and on heroic twins, which imo is one of the most healing intensive fights. I do about 10-12k hps w/o JoL. I Beacon the main tank, SS the off-tank, and when I crit off a holy shock, I FoL the SS'd tank. Of course if I crit back to back on a Holy Shock, I'll FoL the main tank who's other pally's SS is on. My mana pool raid buffed is over 38k and when my Greatness trinket procs, I have over 42k.

    Here is my armory(51/20 +imp devo):
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...huzad&n=Mizzou

  2. #22

    Re: Holy Pally

    Now a different post to respond to the OP without it getting lost:

    1. You don't have Aura Mastery. Especially for hard-modes, it is AMAZING. Ground Tremor on Freya, a fight you say you are struggling with, is one great example. Deafening Roar on Yogg. Flame Jets on Ignis. Faction Champions in general. I could go on - around 1 in 3 hard-modes could benefit from Aura Mastery.

    Aura Mastery can make an absolutely huge difference. If you can announce you're Aura Mastery'ing the next Ground Tremor over Vent, yes you're spending a GCD on it, but all the other healers can keep casting and get some timed heals out, like Prayer of Healing's that land right after the tremor.

    2. I know you have the SoW glyph, but are you using it to its full potential? For one, it can proc off judging from ranged, so if you can afford the GCD, it's in your best interest to judge as much as possible. Second, there's a ton of fights where you can get away with melee'ing half the fight. The key is knowing when. On Freya it's pretty easy to stack on the add tank during the Ancient Conservator waves and melee for almost the entire wave. You can't really get away with this on other waves, especially with the Detonating Lashers...

    3. ...since you mentioned struggling on Freya, my last point made me think. Is your guild doing the Detonating Lashers wave right? If that's where you're struggling to heal, or is forcing you to go OOM, that should be adjusted. It's a lot of healing but can be greatly minimized.

    4. Are you casting Holy Light even when not necessary? I changed my UI to show health deficits rather than %, so I see somebody as being -5341 rather than 82%. It allows me to see when Flash of Light will be large enough to heal my targets. You'd be surprised how often Holy Light just isn't necessary, even on healing intensive fights.
    Ephemera - Grievance - Thrall [H]
    Sybilfawlty - We Have Cookies - Stormrage [A]

  3. #23

    Re: Holy Pally

    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbobubblin


    Aura Mastery can make an absolutely huge difference. If you can announce you're Aura Mastery'ing the next Ground Tremor over Vent, yes you're spending a GCD on it, but all the other healers can keep casting and get some timed heals out, like Prayer of Healing's that land right after the tremor.

    Actually, Aura Mastery is off global cooldown, so you don't have to worry about it. In addition, it isn't holy, so you can use it while interrupted, and, if you are with conc aura already, it can be used when silencied.

    I really would like to hear someone explaning why using SP/mp5 gems, plus spell power enchants. I mean, I've seen some paladins with gear like this, while most still use int, but I haven't read anything serious anything about it. I mean, there is always a troll saying "I HAS SP I PWN", but I want to see the math behind it. I didn't belive that Int stack was truely the way to go until I read EJ theorycrafting. It just looked stupid and non-sense, without the math to prove it.

    I suppose there isn't enough theorycrafting to support stacking Spellpower yet, but it probably works fine. Int will always scale better than anything for holy paladins, but sometimes you do want other stat, and you can afford to use it. If your raid is skilled, you are skilled, and not doing things terribly wrong, there is no reason why you can't beat top encounters. Specialy at ToC, where a raid that does no mistakes will triumph, while a raid that does a mistake can wipe and lose the run for the whole week.
    I can't remember exactly which top-guild, but I did see a holy paladin stacking sp/mp5 and using a deadly libram. I though "Wtf, if you want spell power, please buy the relentless one, 1800 isn't hard for a top player", buy hey, he still have better pve progress than me. ;p

  4. #24

    Re: Holy Pally

    that is the first one i've seen in the top guild not stacking full int. I'm guessing since he's close to 1 sec fl, and has probably like 3.9k sp on his flashes, he's a tank only pally.

    u have to remember, these guilds have 14dps all doing 8-12k dps on every fight. and raid healers who can do insane healing. So if they wanted one pally, who could bring a ss that could absorb a ton if damage, and have 1 sec 8-11k heals on both tanks without stop in a fight, they can do that.

    He wont top "effective meters" but in a raid group like that it sounds perfect.

    in the real world of top 2000-500 raiding guilds, having the exact raid makeup and skill set to do such a thing might not be as easy.

  5. #25

    Re: Holy Pally

    Quote Originally Posted by Ternanus
    Thanks for the advice i am changing my gems going to get the +10 stats gem for helm and i have to keep a blue for the meta gem to work. Also i am going to change my talents and give it ago. ;D
    10 Stat all gem activates meta, no other gems required.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguissa
    Increase haste to 600+.
    675 for FoL 1sec cast = GCD that being fully raidbuffed.


    Gem int as much as possible as you get enough spellpower and MP5 from gear, that's all I can say to you.

  6. #26
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    Re: Holy Pally

    armory dillbag on kil'jaeden

  7. #27

    Re: Holy Pally

    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbobubblin
    I disagree. More and more high-end Pallies are starting to gem for some mp5.

    Zaroua of Premonition, for example:
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...27jin&n=Zaroua

    The Holy Pallies in the top 3 guilds on my server (who are all 4/5 ToGC Heroic) all stack SP/mp5. Many even use the PvP Libram to boost FoL.

    Point being, you can say they're not pro, but they're getting kills. And they've all stacked Int in the past - there has to be a valid reason why they're stacking SP/mp5 now.
    Zaroua has 328 mp5...my character has 302. But I have 10k more mana than zaroua. Is it better to have 26 more mp5 against 10k mana?

    2 types of 'stacker': int and sp (mp5 stacker is not the way to do it).

    If you're a spammer (FoL or HL), you want int. If you're a passive healer, you want SP. Example: Should I wait for tank to get 10k damage in 2 hits and cast my FoL for 10k or should I spam FoL for 5k in case the tank gets dmg.

    BTW, I recommand the pvp libram instead of renewal.

    ADD:

    In general, we can't spam HL like we use to do. There is always some exception, some people still find their way to spam HL without going oom or even use DP, but again in general, we can't.

    stacking int allows us to spam more HL in our rotation. SP stacking is more limited. For example, typically, int stacker would spam FoL 3 times and then HL. SP stacker would cast FoL, maybe 4 or 5 times before casting HL in their rotation. Either way is good. If you get the job done by stacking int or sp, you're a good pally.

    Stacking SP and spamming HL is a big waste: waste of mana and waste of healing.

  8. #28

    Re: Holy Pally

    I am new to Holy Pally (prot is main spec). So everything I read is stack Int gems, so I did. I have a strange mix of 200-226 (2 pieces of higher PvP gear) gear from odd pieces I picked up along the way. Unbuffed I have 1872 SP, and 24K mana. I went almost all Int gems, unless the socket bonus was like +7 int, then went int/other color.

    BUT when I run through Rawr, it tells me to change my int to int/SP or int/MP5. Is Rawr wrong or is my SP just too low at this time (just started yesterday). I healed VoA 25 man and 10 man, with no mana issues and a stupid amount over overheal (50%-60%).

    Since this was the first time I have ever healed, I am a bit confused on what I read (stack Int) and what Rawr is telling me.

    stats completely unbuffed:
    26.57% crit
    327 Haste
    1872 SP
    250 MP5
    23,969 unbuffed mana

    It also says http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40978 is better than http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47510 and http://www.wowhead.com/?item=48992 is better than http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47228

    It seems it is favoring the SP and MP5 more. Anythoughts for a healing noob (always been DPS and tank)
    "Peace is a lie"

  9. #29

    Re: Holy Pally

    Healing Pvp Gear will never be better than equivalent Pve gear. Rawr is wrong (never liked this addon for healer, actually). Pvp gear lacks from int and haste, two stats that you should be focusing on, they just have highier ilvl (s7 and s6 gear, compared to 10-man and 5-man pieces)

  10. #30

    Re: Holy Pally

    Quote Originally Posted by davesurfer
    I am new to Holy Pally (prot is main spec). So everything I read is stack Int gems, so I did. I have a strange mix of 200-226 (2 pieces of higher PvP gear) gear from odd pieces I picked up along the way. Unbuffed I have 1872 SP, and 24K mana. I went almost all Int gems, unless the socket bonus was like +7 int, then went int/other color.

    BUT when I run through Rawr, it tells me to change my int to int/SP or int/MP5. Is Rawr wrong or is my SP just too low at this time (just started yesterday). I healed VoA 25 man and 10 man, with no mana issues and a stupid amount over overheal (50%-60%).

    Since this was the first time I have ever healed, I am a bit confused on what I read (stack Int) and what Rawr is telling me.

    stats completely unbuffed:
    26.57% crit
    327 Haste
    1872 SP
    250 MP5
    23,969 unbuffed mana

    It also says http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40978 is better than http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47510 and http://www.wowhead.com/?item=48992 is better than http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47228

    It seems it is favoring the SP and MP5 more. Anythoughts for a healing noob (always been DPS and tank)
    I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense to compare a ilvl 219 http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47510 versus a ilvl of 245 http://www.wowhead.com/?item=4097


  11. #31

    Re: Holy Pally

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry
    I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense to compare a ilvl 219 http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47510 versus a ilvl of 245 http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40978

    Why? I have both and one is PvP and one is PvE. It seemes I give up a lot from the 219 and the 245 (being PvP) has budget spent on health and Res.

    As I said I just started with gear I have picked up along the way, so I am trying to see what is the best out of the gear I have
    "Peace is a lie"

  12. #32

    Re: Holy Pally

    Quote Originally Posted by davesurfer
    Why? I have both and one is PvP and one is PvE. It seemes I give up a lot from the 219 and the 245 (being PvP) has budget spent on health and Res.

    As I said I just started with gear I have picked up along the way, so I am trying to see what is the best out of the gear I have
    I don't use rawr because it's a personnal preference. Sometime, things can be obvious but when you reach a higher ilvl gear, rawr is not effective IMO when difference between two pieces of gear is slight. Bear in mind that nothing is predictible. First, Rawr doesn't consider how you play your pally. Second, Rawr doesn't take into consideration the synergy of the raid. Third, Rawr doesn't compute factors such as movements, such as pauses during transitions. RAWR model can't be applied to reality. In fact, you need to stand still and cast the same spell over and over and pop DP every CD to make the model viable. In reality....it's impossible. Like PAWN mod, it's a question of personal preferences.


    What is obvious to me is that your SP is low, your haste is low. MP5 is for your longivity to stay and heal the encounter. Intellect also helps you by giving an extra mana to start the fight, contributes to increase your SP, crit and mana restoration. But, to take advantage of high mp5 or huge mana pool in long-term, you need to keep the tank alive initially or save a wipe. Therefor, you need a minimum SP to increase your heals to a certain and acceptable amount. Haste allows you to cast more spells in a certain period of time. Low haste means you have to spam non-stop. Why? Logically, if you know your heals are slow, to prevent the dead of your taget, you would spam heals. The idea is it's better to overheal my target than miss a heal and the target die. But spamming heals means that the effect of mp5 would be reduced.

    Choosing gear:

    I prefer the pve waist http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47510 against http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40978
    because it has everything you need. Add an int gem to it.

    For leggings...idk. You need to test them. Try this: use the pve leggings with intellect gem. Equip everything you have that has haste in it. Eat a haste food. Drink a haste elixir. Try it. You'll be impressed that even with some lack of SP (pve leggings versus pvp), you can still compensate by throwing healings faster.


  13. #33

    Re: Holy Pally

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry
    Choosing gear:

    I prefer the pve waist http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47510 against http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40978
    because it has everything you need. Add an int gem to it.

    For leggings...idk. You need to test them. Try this: use the pve leggings with intellect gem. Equip everything you have that has haste in it. Eat a haste food. Drink a haste elixir. Try it. You'll be impressed that even with some lack of SP (pve leggings versus pvp), you can still compensate by throwing healings faster.

    Thanks, this is what I was thinking. Plus I plan on running prot through 10 man ulduar to get some gear, and healing 25 man.

    My main is a druid Boom/Bear. I rolled this pally to have another lockout to help the guild in other 10 mans, so Prot/Holy seemed to fit the holes. Since I am just about 30 emblems away from rounding out my peot set, I will focus on my heal set after.

    I know RAWR (optimizer) is usually a little off on gemming on my Boom, so I don't trust it 100%. What I was concerned about is there a min SP that I should have before stacking Int? Once again the stats I listed were with no buffs whatsoever, so when I Get buffed, flask, and eat FF, it obviously goes up.

    I MT healed VOA 10 man with a Disc Priest (all the bosses) and didn't have mana or healing issues. I also healed 25 man, but we had like 4 or 5 healers, so not a good measurement.
    "Peace is a lie"

  14. #34

    Re: Holy Pally

    Quote Originally Posted by davesurfer
    Thanks, this is what I was thinking. Plus I plan on running prot through 10 man ulduar to get some gear, and healing 25 man.

    My main is a druid Boom/Bear. I rolled this pally to have another lockout to help the guild in other 10 mans, so Prot/Holy seemed to fit the holes. Since I am just about 30 emblems away from rounding out my peot set, I will focus on my heal set after.

    I know RAWR (optimizer) is usually a little off on gemming on my Boom, so I don't trust it 100%. What I was concerned about is there a min SP that I should have before stacking Int? Once again the stats I listed were with no buffs whatsoever, so when I Get buffed, flask, and eat FF, it obviously goes up.

    I MT healed VOA 10 man with a Disc Priest (all the bosses) and didn't have mana or healing issues. I also healed 25 man, but we had like 4 or 5 healers, so not a good measurement.

    All things being equal, the minimum SP is 2000 for naxx, 2200 for naxx 25, 2400 for ulduar 25 and ToC+.

    There shouldn't be a limit to achieve before stacking int because you should get it along with the gear available to you through progression. In other words, don't stack SP just because you're low on SP. Get yourself some upgrades to increase your SP and keep stacking Int.

    IMPORTANT: Stack Intellect but don't forget to try SP stacking (3000+ SP). You have to see it by yourself and choose which school of 'stacker' you're confortable with.

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