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  1. #21

    Re: Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyros
    Stop being retarded, the paladin should die but the ardent defender should still heal.
    Can't heal that which is dead. As said in post before yours; ability procs absorption effect, chaos bolt, working as intended, ignores it and kills paladin.
    Heal triggers on absorption of damage, of which none is absorbed because it hey, ignores absorption effects.

  2. #22
    Titan
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    Re: Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pielord
    /facepalm

    The heal would proc, IF you weren't dead already. Ardent Defender stops you from dying via an absorption effect that absorbs the hit which would otherwise kill you, AND THEN it heals you. Chaos Bolt penetrates absorption effects. This means you're low on health. Get Chaos Bolted. Ardent Defender procs a shield, but chaos bolt hits you for full damage anyway, so you die. There is never any time for said heal to proc, since youre dead already.
    You're partially wrong. When it procs, it leaves an undispellable debuff on you to show it's procced. The heal procs REGARDLESS of what it was that "killed" the paladin. The ONLY effect that goes through this is something like Yoggy's hard-enrage which is channeled for a short amount of time.

    If the damage dealt > your current HP, the heal would proc. It's predictive. While Chaos bolt may go through the absorb effect of it, the heal is still meant to proc regardless.
    [...]

  3. #23

    Re: Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

    I can confirm this, but it seems to be working as intended tbh...
    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Outland&n=enbee
    -> I might be logged out in protpvpgear

  4. #24

    Re: Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

    why do you guys keep saying it procs off the absorption. the talent says "any damage that would normally kill the paladin put him at 30% HP" chaos bolt would normally kill me so it should put me at 30% HP regardless of it bypassing the 20% damage reduction part of the talent.

    if they did make it part of the absorption then it's bad programming.

  5. #25

    Re: Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

    i think that since the shield never was activated since CS went through it, the heal was never prompted to proc
    If the Burning Legion is such a problem, why not just throw water on them? Then they'll just be a Legion
    Quote Originally Posted by Vongimi View Post
    What is wrong with having a character show up again? Some people are so dumb and will hate on anything blizzard does. Seriously, if you hate it so much that you cant see straight when they show a character a 2nd time, then you should just quit. Also, never read a book. Ever. You will be mad.

  6. #26

    Re: Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumidar
    why do you guys keep saying it procs off the absorption. the talent says "any damage that would normally kill the paladin put him at 30% HP" chaos bolt would normally kill me so it should put me at 30% HP regardless of it bypassing the 20% damage reduction part of the talent.

    if they did make it part of the absorption then it's bad programming.
    Agree with you. Blizzard needs to change tooltip or change mechanic of skill.

  7. #27

    Re: Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruzader
    Locks where the only thing that could kill a prot pala, becuase of this bug,
    broken class qq
    ~I am going to explain this to the morons in this thread very clearly because you guys are indeed retarded.
    Ardent Defender must proc, BY PROC I MEAN ABSORB 20% INC DAMAGE, for it to proc the heal.
    Chaos Bolt ignores the Ardent Defender because for the heal to proc, the first part has to proc, WHICH IS ABSORBTION.
    TO REITERATE WHAT I HAVE JUST SAID:
    ARDENT DEFENDER HEAL = ABSORPTION MUST HAPPEN
    CHAOS BOLT SAYS NO TO ABSORPTION
    because the broken class can actually LOSE to something 1v1 NO, 5v1 probs, it must be fixed AMIRITE
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  8. #28

    Re: Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by cineplex
    broken class qq
    ~I am going to explain this to the morons in this thread very clearly because you guys are indeed retarded.
    Ardent Defender must proc, BY PROC I MEAN ABSORB 20% INC DAMAGE, for it to proc the heal.
    Chaos Bolt ignores the Ardent Defender because for the heal to proc, the first part has to proc, WHICH IS ABSORBTION.
    TO REITERATE WHAT I HAVE JUST SAID:
    ARDENT DEFENDER HEAL = ABSORPTION MUST HAPPEN
    CHAOS BOLT SAYS NO TO ABSORPTION
    because the broken class can actually LOSE to something 1v1 NO, 5v1 probs, it must be fixed AMIRITE
    Gee way to take it out of context...
    BO0ooOOooOOo0oooOO0OOooOO0ooo0OOOo0oOO0NEST0RM!

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...uttnikk/simple
    ^Deepz served here^

  9. #29

    Re: Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by cineplex
    broken class qq
    ~I am going to explain this to the morons in this thread very clearly because you guys are indeed retarded.
    Ardent Defender must proc, BY PROC I MEAN ABSORB 20% INC DAMAGE, for it to proc the heal.
    Chaos Bolt ignores the Ardent Defender because for the heal to proc, the first part has to proc, WHICH IS ABSORBTION.
    TO REITERATE WHAT I HAVE JUST SAID:
    ARDENT DEFENDER HEAL = ABSORPTION MUST HAPPEN
    CHAOS BOLT SAYS NO TO ABSORPTION
    because the broken class can actually LOSE to something 1v1 NO, 5v1 probs, it must be fixed AMIRITE
    Let's just double check what Ardent Defender's tooltip says, shall we? Let's see, hmm:

    "Damage that takes you below 35% health is reduced by 20%. In addition, attacks which would otherwise kill you cause you to be healed by up to 30% of your maximum health (amount healed based on defense)."

    According to the text which we are supposed to read to understand how the ability is intended to work, the death-mitigating effect that heals for up to 30% of max health is in addition to whatever wizardry is going on with the absorption effect - that is, it doesn't matter whether the absorption effect procs, because the heal is in addition to the reduced damage.

    If the mechanics of the ability work so that it doesn't trigger a heal when the absorption effect is bypassed, that is bugged according to the tooltip. If it is intended to work in this way, the tooltip should be amended to reflect that. If it is not intended, the paladin should receive a heal if Chaos Bolt would have killed him or her. Either way, a change is called for.
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  10. #30
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Re: Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

    protpala is just a tempspec for scrubplayers to enjoy some ratingboost anyway, why even discuss what CB vs Argen should do... *yawn*

  11. #31

    Re: Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oystersauce
    Let's just double check what Ardent Defender's tooltip says, shall we? Let's see, hmm:

    "Damage that takes you below 35% health is reduced by 20%. In addition, attacks which would otherwise kill you cause you to be healed by up to 30% of your maximum health (amount healed based on defense)."

    According to the text which we are supposed to read to understand how the ability is intended to work, the death-mitigating effect that heals for up to 30% of max health is in addition to whatever wizardry is going on with the absorption effect - that is, it doesn't matter whether the absorption effect procs, because the heal is in addition to the reduced damage.

    If the mechanics of the ability work so that it doesn't trigger a heal when the absorption effect is bypassed, that is bugged according to the tooltip. If it is intended to work in this way, the tooltip should be amended to reflect that. If it is not intended, the paladin should receive a heal if Chaos Bolt would have killed him or her. Either way, a change is called for.
    omg.
    what heals you? ardent defender.
    what does cb ignore? ardent defender.
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  12. #32

    Re: Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

    It is bugged if you consider the healing effect to be seperate from the shield provided and that is should proc regardless of shield not being touched.

    It is not bugged if you feel that the heal should only work if the shield absorbs something which, in this case, it can't as CB surpasses all shields except immune shields which this one isn't.

  13. #33

    Re: Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis
    protpala is just a tempspec for scrubplayers to enjoy some ratingboost anyway, why even discuss what CB vs Argen should do... *yawn*
    There's a reason healing palas played protholy, a little bit cause protholy was OP, but mostly because holy is/was underpar aswell ^^


    I don't play protholy btw, I play protret, more tools, funner playstyle.

    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Outland&n=enbee
    -> I might be logged out in protpvpgear

  14. #34

    Re: Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumidar
    pretty much but the heal never procs
    It does, you're just dead, so it can't activate.

  15. #35

    Re: Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by cineplex
    omg.
    what heals you? ardent defender.
    what does cb ignore? ardent defender.
    OK, look, I'm sensing I'm wasting my time but I am gonna give this one more try, all right?

    Ardent Defender is this thing here, it's the tooltip which describes the ability:

    "Damage that takes you below 35% health is reduced by 20%. In addition, attacks which would otherwise kill you cause you to be healed by up to 30% of your maximum health (amount healed based on defense)."

    That is Ardent Defender. Ardent Defender does not say "attacks which bypass the reduced damage effect do not trigger the heal" in any way. No part of the ability's description says that the heal relies on damage being absorbed. It doesn't say that only attacks which take you below 35% and would otherwise kill you cause you to be healed, does it? Any attacks, it says, not just those that would trigger the reduced damage effect. So what you said above - here, let me get it again, it was priceless:

    Quote Originally Posted by cineplex
    omg.
    what heals you? ardent defender.
    what does cb ignore? ardent defender.
    That right there is meaningless crap. Get over whatever pathetic hangups you have about warlocks or paladins and use your brain. Either Chaos Bolt not triggering the heal is a bug, or the tooltip is wrong; there is a problem here that needs to be fixed.
    Generation 29:
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  16. #36

    Re: Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oystersauce
    That right there is meaningless crap. Get over whatever pathetic hangups you have about warlocks or paladins and use your brain. Either Chaos Bolt not triggering the heal is a bug, or the tooltip is wrong; there is a problem here that needs to be fixed.
    Your logic is impeccable, presumably the error is in the tooltip - it should be phrased more clearly. Presumably the 'cheat death' effect is itself an absorb followed by a heal, and chaos bolt is piercing both absorbs.

    So the tooltip should say : '... attacks which would otherwise heal you will be absorbed and you will be healed by up to 30% of ...'. Then everything would make sense.

    Guardian spirit has the same issue, and the same lack of any clarity in the tooltip. Sadly I think we have to assume that if they wanted AD and GS to allow us to survive Chaos Bolts they'd have made them temporary immunities not absorbs.

  17. #37

    Re: Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

    As any healer will tell you, Death > Healing.

    What I mean is that if a player takes a death blow and a heal at the exactly same time, the player will die... even if the combat log records the heal before the death.

    So it really doesn't matter whether or not the heal should occur, since the Paladin would die either way. Instead, the question is whether Argent Defender should be considered an "absorption effect".

  18. #38

    Re: Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by cineplex
    omg.
    what heals you? ardent defender.
    what does cb ignore? ardent defender.
    This is stupid logic. CB ignores block value, but it doesn't prevent me from using the block value from the same mechanic to bash his face.

    And yes, CB ignores guardian spirit too. And I don't think heals on that target AREN'T increased by 40% because GS is ignored by CB too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiili View Post
    Murder can be justified and to a certain extent I believe genocide can be justified aswell.

  19. #39

    Re: Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin
    So it really doesn't matter whether or not the heal should occur, since the Paladin would die either way. Instead, the question is whether Argent Defender should be considered an "absorption effect".
    In my opinion, the question is whether the anomalous interaction with Chaos Bolt (and, presumably, any other existing or potential damage sources which ignore absorption effects) is intended, or whether it's a bug that results from the way that Ardent Defender has been implemented. It should be Blizzard's intent that drives the game's mechanics; Blizzard shouldn't be restricted from doing what it intends just because the game currently handles things in a certain way.

    Oh, Azyoulike - thanks, and I'd probably agree with your conclusion.

    And Mindark - yes. Thank you.
    Generation 29:
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  20. #40

    Re: Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mindark
    This is stupid logic. CB ignores block value, but it doesn't prevent me from using the block value from the same mechanic to bash his face.

    And yes, CB ignores guardian spirit too. And I don't think heals on that target AREN'T increased by 40% because GS is ignored by CB too.
    Actually, I'd say your examples are terrible. GS's 40% healing still occurs because it is independent of the "cheat death" effect, the target doesn't even have to be taking damage to get the buff. The same is true of block value enhanced attacks.

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