Chaos Bolt cancels the Ardent Defender heal.

[masterprtzl]

Your logic is impeccable, presumably the error is in the tooltip - it should be phrased more clearly. Presumably the 'cheat death' effect is itself an absorb followed by a heal, and chaos bolt is piercing both absorbs.

So the tooltip should say : '... attacks which would otherwise heal you will be absorbed and you will be healed by up to 30% of ...'. Then everything would make sense.

Guardian spirit has the same issue, and the same lack of any clarity in the tooltip. Sadly I think we have to assume that if they wanted AD and GS to allow us to survive Chaos Bolts they'd have made them temporary immunities not absorbs.

Hey guys, lack of clarity has been clarified by this thread.

/thread

[Mindark]

...because it is independent of the "cheat death" effect

Kind of like AD's independent "cheat death" effect? That's what the whole "In addition" part of the tooltip means.

[Slavemaker]

Chaos Bolt:
Sends a bolt of chaotic fire at the enemy, dealing 1429 to 1813 Fire damage. Chaos Bolt cannot be resisted, and pierces through all absorption effects.

Ardent Defender:
Effect #1 Apply Aura: School Absorb (Arcane, Fire, Frost, Holy, Nature, Physical, Shadow)
Value: 20


Hmmmmmmm.

Doesn't sound like a bug to me.

[nazrakin]

Kind of like AD's independent "cheat death" effect? That's what the whole "In addition" part of the tooltip means.

No it isn't. The "In addition" is both the cheat death+heal, those two are definitely dependent on one another. The -20% damage part of the spell is the separate part and it still occurs.

In my opinion, the question is whether the anomalous interaction with Chaos Bolt (and, presumably, any other existing or potential damage sources which ignore absorption effects) is intended, or whether it's a bug that results from the way that Ardent Defender has been implemented. It should be Blizzard's intent that drives the game's mechanics; Blizzard shouldn't be restricted from doing what it intends just because the game currently handles things in a certain way.

Well, the truth is that Blizzard's intentions are often limited by the game engine. We've heard the excuse that the tech is insufficient or too complex for certain fixes many times in the past.

Anyway, we seem to agree that Blizzard needs to decide whether this should be an absorb or not. If it is a bug, Blizzard will then have to decide whether it is worth fixing now or later.

[Lakerdas]

The mechanics of Ardent Defender works like this:
*apart from the fact that it reduces dmg taken by 20% if you are under 35% of your
total life

*The part of the tooltip that says "In addition, attacks which would otherwise kill you cause you to be healed by up to 30% of your maximum health" actually works like a shield that absorbs the dmg that would otherwise kill you and, when the absorption occurs, it heals you for 30% of your max HP. CB ignores the absorption effect, the absorption never happens so the paladin dies instead of surviving the dmg and get to 30% hp. The paladin dies before the heal procs.
Excactly the same way is the Guardian spirit's death-preventing mechanic works. If the CB dmg can kill a player that has guardian spirit then the problem is quite obvious.

Howerver, instead of QQing because a warlock can abuse a survivability talent you use in PvP, that is meant to be used ONLY in "oh-shit" situations in PvE, go PvP with a normal spec.

[Lumidar]

Howerver, instead of QQing because a warlock can abuse a survivability talent you use in PvP, that is meant to be used ONLY in "oh-shit" situations in PvE, go PvP with a normal spec.

who says you can't PVP as prot? Warriors do it all the time so why can't I? your argument makes no sense.

Blizzard even said they want to make Prots viable in PVP which is why they gave us a silence on Avenger Shield, and the stun features on Judgement of the Just. The whole point of a Prot in PVP is to outlive your opponents since your damage is not as great so if talents that are meant for you to do this don't work properly then it's a problem.

if blizzard can actually say it's intended then let it be. until then i say it's a bug or bad programming.

[Azyoulike]

Howerver, instead of QQing because a warlock can abuse a survivability talent you use in PvP, that is meant to be used ONLY in "oh-shit" situations in PvE, go PvP with a normal spec.

Indeed - I'd have to question your assumption that AD & GS are only intended for PvE. By that argument Pain Suppression shouldn't work in PvE since it was intended for PvP right?

Blizz wants holy priests in PvP, which is why the tree contains PvP only talents. Some of which (hello Body & Soul) are seeing use in PvE.

It is quite possible that blizz needed to implement GS and AD as absorptions in order to track when they'd procced - since the way that immunity effects and damage reduction effects work may not allow them to be so easily tracked. All immunity's and reductions seem to run for a fixed amount of time whereas shields are capped - thus easier to use for these 'cheat death' effects. If that's the case they might reimplement DA & GS in future if they ever get the tech.

Finally, Ardent Defender not cheating death against Chaos Bolt has nothing whatsoever to do with

Effect #1 Apply Aura: School Absorb (Arcane, Fire, Frost, Holy, Nature, Physical, Shadow)
Value: 20

that's clearly the base 20% absorption and abilities with multiple effects don't result in effect #2 fizzling simply because effect #1 was ineffective. If they did then Frost Shock would do no damage to bosses, since they're immune to the snare.

The key information is

Effect #2 Apply Aura: Dummy
Value: 30
Server-side script

Which doesn't mention absorption. Still doesn't mean it's necessarily a bug of course.

[Cruzader]

So when Locks are the only ones that CAN kill a Prot Pala, that's a BUG?

No.

AD absorbs, CB pierces absorbs. I suppose it's a bug that Chaos Bolt goes through Anti-Magic Shell and Zone too? Perhaps even priest shields?

You didnt even understand my post.

[Cruzader]

"Im not a paladin, clearly this is working as intended, prot shouldnt be in pvp anyway!"

F**king Retards.

[Javanface]

Either Chaos Bolt not triggering the heal is a bug, or the tooltip is wrong; there is a problem here that needs to be fixed.

/Salute to you Oystersauce for actually thinking this through. This is basically the issue tbh, something is off - it should be looked into.

That said, coming here posting crap about it being a PvE ability, throwing around general hate towards prot or prot/holy palas in PvP isn't helpful at all.

I've a gut feeling that it is a bug seeing as the devs probably didn't foresee prot becoming a popular PvP spec and they may have just overlooked this in their testing of the talent. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I'm aware Chaos Bolt is currently the only spell that ignores absorb effects so I wouldn't be surprised if a potential bug of this nature has slipped by. Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if this is the intended design, but it just doesn't seem likely.

[nazrakin]

I did a quick google search for Chaos Bolt+Cheat Death and I found this blue post: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...&pageNo=13#253

Ghostcrawler specifically states that Cheat Death is an absorb (even though the tooltip does not say it is). That means AD and Gs are probably working as intended since they are the same mechanic as cheat death.

[necrozo]

Mmmm paladin tears again!

I love how exquisite and tasty paladin tears are--what a delicacy.

And who cares, l2lolskillbubble

[Merander]

Mmmm paladin tears again!

I love how exquisite and tasty paladin tears are--what a delicacy.

And who cares, l2lolskillbubble

This post is new and interesting and it is On Topic thank you for sharing your mind.

[Nixia]

working as intended

/thread

[The_Flying_Dog]

Mmmm paladin tears again!

I love how exquisite and tasty paladin tears are--what a delicacy.

And who cares, l2lolskillbubble

Quote for truth....

Prot palas are good enough in PvP now >_> One class can break this cooldown... like priests/warriors can bubble... And for 78% its working as intended soooo have fun paladins!

[Spamor]

Wait a min. Whats the point of this thread =?

About duells ? Nobody cears about duells, no your not gona tell me that you play Arena with full deff gear -.- and omg it happens ones in a while in Bgs there is allways a rogue around to jump the warlock for you.

Btw it´s a absorb all effekts that work like AD get canceled by Chaos Bolt remember holy Priest flaming about there 51 talent, same story

[Exure]

If you're pvping as a protadin, you're a faggot. You deserve to die. I'm gonna fuck you with a fork irl.

[Mordred]

that's clearly the base 20% absorption and abilities with multiple effects don't result in effect #2 fizzling simply because effect #1 was ineffective.

In order for effect #2 to trigger, effect 1 needs to be triggered too. Say fireball hits you, goes through effect one and reduces damage, but still not enough to save your life; so effect two triggers as well, healing you and saving your life. Chaos bolt ignores effect 1 and kills you outright, making effect 2 not even trigger.

Long stretch relation? Fall damage. You fall, take damage, ignores effect one, effect two never triggers.

[Lumidar]

If you're pvping as a protadin, you're a faggot. You deserve to die. I'm gonna fuck you with a fork irl.

i see you've been owned by them a few times :P

[draticus]

It seems obvious to me that the spells are working as "designed", though who knows whether its as "intended." The heal does proc but since CB already went through the absorb and killed you the heal does nothing. Heals that land right after death dont resurrect you. Just like how I can cast a Gheal crit for 16k on the tank and lose the mana for it but the tank still dies because he was actually dead right before the heal went off and latency still let me cast it. CB vs AD isn't latency related but its still a heal going off after death and having no effect.

Just because the devs may or may not have thought about this particular scenario doesn't mean its intended or not intended. If they dont want to change the mechanics to prevent this scenario then the wording of the tool tip obviously needs to be changed to something like "Attempts to absorb the damage of any blow that would normally kill you. If the absorb is successful your health is raised by up to 30% of you max health. 2 min CD"

Poor wording of tooltip does not necessarily imply what was or was not "intended." Technically speaking the spells are working exactly as mechanically designed. There is no "bug" in the code.