1. #1

    Quick Holy Pally Question...

    Recently, I have been seeing different opinions about how Holy Pallies should gear. I know with patch 3.2 that crit was less appealing to Holy Pallies and MP5 was buffed to make it decent for Holy Pallies. My question is how should I gem/enchant. Right now I am gemming SP, MP5, and Intellect. Right now, I am sitting at 23k mana, 2300 SP, 28% crit, 486 haste, and 364 MP5 unbuffed. The reason why I am asking this question is because people tell me I should be stacking Intellect and just getting the other gems for the meta gem requirements. However, I never run out of mana with my current set up. I would like to know what would be better, what I have now or stacking Intellect, so I would not have to make such a huge investment. Thanks!

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n=Badjudgement

    ^ Armory if needed and yes I know my meta-gem is not great, I was testing something.

  2. #2

    Re: Quick Holy Pally Question...

    Intellect has received a HUGE boost with WotLK mechanics, and is now the best stat for Holy Paladins by far. Let me list what 100 Intellect gives you:

    * 126.5 Intellect, with BoK and Divine Intellect
    * 1897 Mana at the start of the fight
    * 39.5mp5 from Divine Plea, if its used on CD.
    * 21.3mp5 from Replenishment, with 90% uptime.
    * 4.7mp5 from Arcane Torrent, if you are a Blood Elf.
    * 25.3 Spell Power
    * 0.759% Spell Crit

    - From Elitistjerks.com

    http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t35975-h...n_guide_wotlk/

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Lafayette, CO
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    394

    Re: Quick Holy Pally Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by Triplenick
    Recently, I have been seeing different opinions about how Holy Pallies should gear. I know with patch 3.2 that crit was less appealing to Holy Pallies and MP5 was buffed to make it decent for Holy Pallies. My question is how should I gem/enchant. Right now I am gemming SP, MP5, and Intellect. Right now, I am sitting at 23k mana, 2300 SP, 28% crit, 486 haste, and 364 MP5 unbuffed. The reason why I am asking this question is because people tell me I should be stacking Intellect and just getting the other gems for the meta gem requirements. However, I never run out of mana with my current set up. I would like to know what would be better, what I have now or stacking Intellect, so I would not have to make such a huge investment. Thanks!

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n=Badjudgement

    ^ Armory if needed and yes I know my meta-gem is not great, I was testing something.
    Note: I Have not completed 25 Ulduar, and have only gotten to Yogg on 10 man, and have cleared 10 man normal ToC, and up until twin valks on 25, pre-buff.

    I've just stayed the same in how I gem/gear, you can see my shit on armory in my link below, it hasn't hindered me one bit, sure I notice mana drain more but on longer fights it seems to not matter due to DP, and CD's.

    ALSO NOTE: I purposely try not to use any mana pots at all during any fight so I can manage my mana well, and thus far this has proven to be VERY effective as I normally stay above 30% no matter what, and top the healing charts as well (Beacon tank healing baby!).

    The way I look at gear is basically, int first and foremost, then crit, then haste, then mp5. I still consider it a junk stat as we don't tend to be out of the 5 second rule like druids can be.

    My stats are below as I said.

    Edit: Spelling.

    Edit: Forgot to note I've done, HM's for Steelbreaker/XT-002/Ignis. Hodir could be done if my guild wanted to dps that hard (we're lazy for some reason there), and the rest we've been working on. We're just a quaint 10 man guild :P

  4. #4

    Re: Quick Holy Pally Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by Triplenick
    Recently, I have been seeing different opinions about how Holy Pallies should gear. I know with patch 3.2 that crit was less appealing to Holy Pallies and MP5 was buffed to make it decent for Holy Pallies. My question is how should I gem/enchant. Right now I am gemming SP, MP5, and Intellect. Right now, I am sitting at 23k mana, 2300 SP, 28% crit, 486 haste, and 364 MP5 unbuffed. The reason why I am asking this question is because people tell me I should be stacking Intellect and just getting the other gems for the meta gem requirements. However, I never run out of mana with my current set up. I would like to know what would be better, what I have now or stacking Intellect, so I would not have to make such a huge investment. Thanks!

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n=Badjudgement

    ^ Armory if needed and yes I know my meta-gem is not great, I was testing something.
    follow mine or hers:

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...Ganis&n=Aniria



    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...Ganis&n=Dinaye

    one thing i should note is with the mana pool you have now you wont last in Hardmodes.

  5. #5

    Re: Quick Holy Pally Question...

    Basically for Holy Paladins... When in doubt, get more Intel!

    lawls, i suck at rhyming.

  6. #6

    Re: Quick Holy Pally Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by Omgitschris
    The way I look at gear is basically, int first and foremost, then crit, then haste, then mp5. I still consider it a junk stat as we don't tend to be out of the 5 second rule like druids can be.
    I just wanted to point out the MP5 stat gives you that set amount of mana every 5 seconds regardless of you're casting or not. You're thinking of the spirit based OOC/not casting regen that priests and druids get.

  7. #7

    Re: Quick Holy Pally Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fcpremix
    Intellect has received a HUGE boost with WotLK mechanics, and is now the best stat for Holy Paladins by far. Let me list what 100 Intellect gives you:

    * 126.5 Intellect, with BoK and Divine Intellect
    * 1897 Mana at the start of the fight
    * 39.5mp5 from Divine Plea, if its used on CD.
    * 21.3mp5 from Replenishment, with 90% uptime.
    * 4.7mp5 from Arcane Torrent, if you are a Blood Elf.
    * 25.3 Spell Power
    * 0.759% Spell Crit

    - From Elitistjerks.com

    http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t35975-h...n_guide_wotlk/
    pretty sure that is prenerf, nobody updaded that one.

    100 int times 1.1 for kings and 1.1 for talent is.

    121 intel now instead of 126.5. rest of stats r all slightly less, close just to figure 96% of the list.... but that means int is only best stat for holy pally by like 100 times instead of 150.

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Lafayette, CO
    Posts
    394

    Re: Quick Holy Pally Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by op3l
    I just wanted to point out the MP5 stat gives you that set amount of mana every 5 seconds regardless of you're casting or not. You're thinking of the spirit based OOC/not casting regen that priests and druids get.
    Well a mix there, yeah I'm thinking of that spirit based regen but I'm also saying that, to get the equal amount of mp5 from crit, you'd need a ton of mp5, at least this is my assumption, which is why i called it a junk stat (which it is anyway). But yes I guess I should have worded it better.

  9. #9

    Re: Quick Holy Pally Question...

    for healers, the same rules of thumb count:

    1. did your healing assignment(s) (MT for paladins mostly) survive?
    2. did you go OOM during the fight?

    if your answer to the first question is "yes", and the answer to the second question is "no", then you are a good healer. if not, practise more (for 1.) or stack more of the regen stat for your class (for 2.).

  10. #10

    Re: Quick Holy Pally Question...

    Int...i dont fkin care...stack int. anything less than 28-29k with king wont last you in the REAL hardmodes etc. firefighter/3 trees/Anub in TOGC.

    Mp5 is still crap. i only get it for meta gem. aka 10 int 5 mp5.
    I guess I'm back? Sighhhh....

  11. #11

    Re: Quick Holy Pally Question...

    did the math.

    1% crit is worth 14mp5 in the best case, spamming HL at a 1.3 second clip over a 1 min time frame. when u are casting hl less, or using flash it gets even worse. real worse. can get to the 1% crit = 4-5 mp5 range.

    isn't it like, 43 crit rating to get 1 % crit?

    so gemming for mp5 is bad? yes, but so is for crit. 10 mp5 gem > 20 crit gem.

    only thing crit gives u is slightly more throughput that is mostly overheals anways. so don't drop gear peice a that has 20 int, 100sp, 30 haste and 25 mp5 cuz your 18 int, 95sp, 30 haste, 45 crit peice is better, because it's not. things change.

  12. #12

    Re: Quick Holy Pally Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by Force
    Int...i dont fkin care...stack int. anything less than 28-29k with king wont last you in the REAL hardmodes etc. firefighter/3 trees/Anub in TOGC.

    Mp5 is still crap. i only get it for meta gem. aka 10 int 5 mp5.
    Get a 10 all-stat gem, it activates the meta with the minimum loss of intellect. Or else use a 10SP-5MP5 gem atleast.

    To OP:

    Gemming SP / MP5 is a complete and utter waste. 100 SP won't make a difference as holy light over heals for alot regardless of outcome, and the with the buffs in the raid you can pop the neccesary heals anyway. Intellect would be the most wise because of DP and replenishment. Also you get the most of your Sp from Int and also the crit, though not very reliable on anymore because of the recent Illumination nerf. The mana Hyhm from priest is also based on mana, and greatly effective in combo with DP. I have around 37.6k mana fully raidbuffed and flasked at I can keep going for a long time, and if needed I can backup if another healer dies. And to Darthceltic, I'd go for crit anytime over MP5, as FoL crits are a very useful way of raid healing. If you have 675 haste, which is softcap for FoL. MP5 Isn't really needed and I can last long enough, even in 10 mans without replenishment or BoW.

    If you got any questions feel free to ask

  13. #13

    Re: Quick Holy Pally Question...

    Int is the clear winner when gemming, although i have seen some pretty top end Paladins gemmin 12sp/10int and that's all i can see gemming other than for meta's and int. if your doing anything other than that your doing it wrong

  14. #14

    Re: Quick Holy Pally Question...

    Some people are of the school of thought that if you regularly finish fights with plenty of mana to spare, then you should be gemming for spell power instead of intellect. The general logic behind this is if mana is not an issue, you would want to make your spells more powerful to more easily sustain a tank.

    I disagree with this. Given the low spell power coefficient of holy light and the fact a lot of your holy light is going to be overheal, spending item points in spell power seems wasteful to me. If you want to increase your HPS to better sustain a tank during high damage, then it would make sense to gem for haste/intellect over spell power/intellect, assuming you aren't already at the soft-cap for haste.

  15. #15

    Re: Quick Holy Pally Question...

    Quote Originally Posted by bolivar
    Some people are of the school of thought that if you regularly finish fights with plenty of mana to spare, then you should be gemming for spell power instead of intellect. The general logic behind this is if mana is not an issue, you would want to make your spells more powerful to more easily sustain a tank.

    I disagree with this. Given the low spell power coefficient of holy light and the fact a lot of your holy light is going to be overheal, spending item points in spell power seems wasteful to me. If you want to increase your HPS to better sustain a tank during high damage, then it would make sense to gem for haste/intellect over spell power/intellect, assuming you aren't already at the soft-cap for haste.
    Not that I want to make it sound like there's only one way to heal as a pally... depending on your healing comp, how geared you and your other healers are, what your assignments are, the fight, etc. etc., there are no limits really to how you shoudl gear/spec.

    nevertheless, with tanks hitting 50k hp buffed in raids, how on earth is a more powerful HL (stacking sp after hitting 30k+ mana) useless? I know it will overheal a lot of the time anyways... but when you NEED it to hit for as much as possible (when tank drops to 10% from a double hit) it's a godsend to get the extra couple thousand HP out of the heal.

    Again, more int just means more mana/regen from DP. if you don't need it go for sp... personally I'd go for haste cap before upping sp too high... but again... see what your situation is and get more of the stat you need once your Mana pool (int stack) is high enough.

  16. #16

    Re: Quick Holy Pally Question...

    before 3.2 released, our guild only brought one holy pally to the ulduar hard mode. we did firefighter before big nerf after at least 90 wipes.
    and i am the only holy pally. before 3.2, i had about 2300sp and 31k mp without raidbuff and 660 haste. and of course i gemmed int all the way.

    however, after 3.2 and t9 4 sets bonus, i reconsidered my choices. and my guild brought another holy pally because TOC 25 hard mode, bosses do hit hard.
    with our tank with t8 gear and we tried first boss in toc 25 hard mode. phase one, the boss hit really hard, and i felt even holy light spam couldn't keep them alive. because it's not fast enough.( at that time i had like 700 haste)

    so i think let the other holy pally spam holy light and i went to gem spell power. after regemming everything, i still had 26k mp without buff but with alm,ost 3000sp. after raid buff and flask, you should have close 3300sp. and your flash light will crit over 9k
    according to the fomular of sacred shield, i should provide 600+75%x3000. a almost constant 3k shield on the tank. don't forget the shield make your falshlight crits 50% of the time and with a 100% hot over 12 second. and with that much of the haste, my flash light is 0.98 second. and i use holy light when needed with divine illumination. ( my holy light crits over 20k:P). do i heal less than the other holy light spammer? the answer is no. we did about the same healing done after i checked WMO.

    i wanna say that there is not only one way to heal/gem as holy pally.
    if you needed spell power/haste, go gem it.
    it's not gonna work if you have 200 haste but 30k mana. or 1900 sp.

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