does anyone else think wow heroes has ruined the raiding experence?

[Xuany]

There is no way you can pick out a scrub from a vast amount of people these days. Even with pugchecker and the Gearscore addon, gear is just about free to get and scrubs can get lucky and get pugged into more than half a guild run. So when you check what they've done they could have gotten carried through 25man ToC and do shitty heals or dps and die to the most stupid shit. So if their GS is high and they've cleared the place, you better hope they can carry their own weight :P

[yaij9841]

/shrug it's all well and good untill people are require stupid lvls of stuff for everything. sure you can require it for ToC and some hardmodes or ulduar.... but a 2300 GS according to wow-heroes for naxx or heroics? i mean seriously. I'd like my alts to get some crap when their guilds aren't on-line.

[Choda]

I hope this post will shed some light on why people use those tools and sites.

It's a story that happened to me, and is still ongoing actually...

My 10m group consists of people not entirely from my guild, yet they all play on par. Due to various things we have switched people in and out during the months. Right now we are lacking a stable warrior tank to fill in the last spot. The group cleared all the 10 content though, only missing Tribute to Insanity and Immortality.

Last week however we killed Anub with only 20 attempts left due to a shit tank from /2 whom I only checked gear by inspecting. Now (even as I type this) I am "recruiting" a tank in /2 and my standard is much higher than it was last week because I do not want that bullshit to happen again. Everynoe who whispers me gets inspect, pugcheck'd, gearscore'd and achievement checked.

None of those are failproof methods to determine if a tank, or any player for that matter, is good. However those are the tools available and I have to make due with what is given to me. Using those sites and tools, and my own personal judgement I am able to at least partially filter through all the new-age HUR DUR I R RAIDER players.

[Soulbender]

well, a chat to see if the player is mostly sober and is capable of roughly defining tactics is still the surest way to beat the encounter, imo

[JimPanse]

Never experienced someone checking wowheroes for these purposes.
It is a rather useless tool, since most people logg out like they want to, data is incorrect, information is false.

Anyway, i wish i could believe in it, because then i am the the top3 resto-shaman on my server.
Guess this makes me cool, amirite?

[Khad]

While i mostly agree with this "gear score sucks" attitude, ill try to give you a different pow.

I wouldnt use gear score as a requirement, what id cladly do is use the achievement/gear score to sort people out a bit. I wouldnt exlude non achievement palyers, but the next logical question if one would be missing the achi is "how much have you raided before and is this your main/alt?" See, if your putting up a 25 man raid, talking for a minute or two with all of them will take a ton of your time. Ask something easy like "can you, have you or will you" and you have a opener that gives you some feel of the player behind the keyboard. As a no go/go using the achievements sucks big time, as a tool to sort out/sort in people who want come its perfect.

Another thing, most of the time, people building the raid are NOT looking for multihour educational experience for beginners. They are building the raid for their selfish needs. As such, the given RL has all the reason in the world to make it the best bossible group. Actyally, he/she has an oblication towards the raid to NOT build a failing one. Ofcourse this means that some level of weeding must be done to get things right. As explaining new tactics is by far the most time taking part of raiding, it speeds up things tremedously if most of the people have done it before.

I ask all of you who have been left out from raid because too low gear score or becouse you missed the achi to think this from the raid leaders point of view aswell. IF you still think unjustise has been dealt for you, make the raid your self. See how big of a burden building a raid is, how much of your time it will take. Quite often, people who build pug raids manage to do it by their reputation. People make note who build a functioning pug, and whos was a failure. This again puts some pressure on who the RL will bring along.

This just gave me an idea. I think ill contact some friends and well try to build a naxx 25 pug with the sole intention of having 5-7 overgeared people to support it. And then just get in as many first timers as we can. See how that one comes out

Khad

[yaij9841]

/facepalm

10 million subscribers, many with alts, many still levelling? A cautious estimate would be that we have around 35 million toons created and in various states of levelling or functions as mules, farming alst etc.

And despite the fact that people keep repeating and repeating and repeating the "epics for casul" mantra...well..I am sure there are millions and millions of toons in greens, blues and epics sub 213. Hell...on my account with 10 toons, there are just 2 in raiding gear. The rest is just that..alts for fun, many not even 80.

As for the raiding community? Well..if wowprogress listed 55 000 guilds and if we are generous and estimate that 40 toons per guild raid regularely...that still makes only 2 million raiders.

The ones that are left out - and for the sake of argument might all be madly and diligently running daily heroics and such...they still won't be showered in ilv 219 gear. Damn Black Heart alone took me 39 runs to ToTc normal, which feels like beating up kids in the playground if you are raiding 10 man hardmodes on the side :/

I think you missed an obvious bit os /sarcasm.

the person i quoted said anyone with 200/213 ilvl gear isn't wroth taking to a raid.

I know sarcasm doens't carry over well based in taxt, guess i should make use of the italics and reiteration tools :-\

[grevari]

I understand the reasoning behind RL's doing this, but they are missing out on good potential. I have never been part of a guild that did top level raiding(never had the people). But I have a bunch of friends that have been or currently are. They were kind enough to bring me along in one of thier alt runs. So I was in the same type of gear. Afterward they tried recruiting me hardcore. While I appriciated the offer I declined since my guild is a family one.

The point is this. I am clearly not an idiot when it comes to raids. I just don't do them a lot becuase of the guild I am in. There are tons of players out there in guilds that do not progress that fast but are good players. Yes there are also tons of bad players out there and a good percent have as good as or better gear than I do. All you should have to do is ask them about the toughest fight in the raid that you are doing, and see if they get it. Really get it. not a "ya ya I know wat I doing. I L33T!!!" It may take time to build a raid but in the time it takes to do that, you will save time doing the raid(and probably with less wipes).

and I do look at WoW Heroes. but that is more of a fun thing for the people in the guild. as well as a good starting point for them to learn about the gear, enchants, and gems the use.

[barrsftw]

when i lead pugs i make sure the people's WHR is much higher than needed myself.... why would i take a 2000whr rogue when i could easily find a 2500 rogue? just makes no sence, sry i want to complete the raid faster, QQ more and farm heroics/daily for full t9.

[Huntardo]

Wow Heroes is my hero. I even armory people when I run heroics. I'm not playing this game to gear people or carry them through heroics or whatever unless they are a RL friend. If they need to be carried go join a leveling guild. But I think that wow-heroes has made raid leaders job a bit easier, and it also shows if you are putting the best enchants possible.

One more thing is if you don't like people looking up your gear score make a pug raid yourself.

[Zargzak]

What are Wow Heroes?

[Oneleg]

Hardly.

Only retards judge people by their wow heroes rating and achievements. In fact, I think wow heroes score is based solely on ilvl so a dk wearing full lvl245 spellpower plate would get higher score than a dk wearing lvl213 str plate.

you are correct,

[Tankyouverymuch]

I'm going to guess that an overwhelming majority of WoW players - and pug raid leaders - have never heard of WoW Heroes, and they wouldn't know what to do with it even if they were aware of it.

So I'm going to go with no on that one.

[PaladinOfHolyness]

:

i'm sure there is absolutely no way a person can still be wearing 200/213 lvl gear today in this time at all.

because when your alt dings 80 they come equipped with ilvl 213+ gear amirite?
also - low pops.

[Marath]

WoW heroes is useless...

Its not hard to figure out if someone knows how to gear their class... takes all of 2 minutes using wowarmory...

things to avoid:

-Hunters with MP5, SP and STR
-Caster DPS with MP5 (rings is the exception here though... not too many caster dps rings in the game right now)
-Healers with hit
-Melee with def
-Tanks under def cap or with less than 30k unbuffed (for current content)

thats just a rough ruleset to follow

Quick look at the achieves to see what content they have successfully cleared...

Using a system that just adds the ilevel of all the items you are wearing is just stupid... i could fully gear with 245ilevel gear using a mixture of healing and dps gear... doesnt mean its a good set. One of the best caster trinkets is ilvl 213 afterall

[Alenko]

I love the people saying "just put on some really high ilvl stuff to fake your whr" YEAH, that will work GREAT when I look at your gear to make sure its gemmed/enchanted correctly as it lists you gear directly below you whr....

[jsemon2]

more times then not, I just say 'invite' and i get an invite. i've pugged so much it's pathetic, granted i've since retired.

if you get stiff players like this that require X amount of gear it's just better off not pugging with them because more then likely you'll get even more attitude from them once the raid is actually pulling trash and ready to go. i once got booted for a raid for the following raid chat.

Me: Lets get this shit started already.
Raid Leader: Hey, lets watch the language.
Me: I am, I watched every single character being displayed as I typed it.
Me has be removed from the raid.



So every pug has it's random crap you have to take in with a grain of salt. Now if it's the norm of your realm, maybe you should consider changing your server. And every raid I've ever lead and pugged I have wow windowed and I'm getting a general feel for how the gear is and looking at their 1-2 key stats on wowarmory. may take an extra 10 minutes but i feel i have a better sense of what i'm going into with then having someone link me a fake achievement or what ilvl score they have. you see random crap this way.

[Nest]

I've heard of WoW Heroes. Never really arsed to check up what it is.

It rates the gear of Your character or sumthin'? ;o
Cause that's just useless.

[Grunthunter]

Here is the thing when it comes to WHR ,there r only a few servers that use it. If u don't like it transfer out. Whr is correct and should b used for info on pugs(other sites like gearscore work just as well). The reason it ruins the game is u get the hardcore raiders who clear out the raids within the first week or too. And then they go and pug it but demand ridiculas whr and since ppl see that, they set that as the raid standerd for the server. Not only that but when u join the group and wipe, ppl flip a shit and leave. Whr accounts for gear ppl not skill

[HellBurn]

Hardly.

Only retards judge people by their wow heroes rating and achievements. In fact, I think wow heroes score is based solely on ilvl so a dk wearing full lvl245 spellpower plate would get higher score than a dk wearing lvl213 str plate.