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  1. #1841
    I never clip the first bod anymore, after that its kind of hit and miss of if I remember what I had when I cast it before though I will usually always clip if I have meta and any other kind of proc at the same time. I will be switching glyphs, I'm not bothering now because spine isn't until tomorrow night and I do 5mans and easy crap just to play the character for fun. Doomguard might've been better if I wasn't fumbling after casting a damn soulstone, lining him up with cooldowns was actually fun when I started to get more serious on warlock but what is good doomguard damage then? Like slightly more, or does it look hundreds of thousands too low?

    My haste is as is + a bit more since I switch cunning for valor trinket, reforged to mastery. It'll be like 2250 on spine, 2k~ right over the corruption extra tick with cunning on instead. My DI target was just a random lfr dude and the two boomkins were both in mostly pvp gear so I wasn't very interested in them. For lfr I'd just prefer a resto druid lol but none of those either.

    And for pre casting, I guess I can try, but my warlock has been pugging almost every run since I started playing it, couple of mostly friend runs. I only just joined a pug and got asked to stay with them last week and they were good on their own, but even then they were kind of fixing tanks, so it was all in flux.

    I had 3k~ haste before but it's so impossible trying to get meta up everytime on 25% now. I think the first time I ever tried spine it was like 15%, and even then I couldn't guarantee it. If it was 0(or I guess 5% with that huge tendon nerf) I would probably stick with pure haste and try for a meta every lift. I'd probably cut off my own arm than want to play warlock on spine before the big nerf hit.

    I guess some of those top logs(heroic) are with faster killing groups, legendary and maybe a PI or something; it just doesn't seem like I can compete at all.

    Oh and here for that macro.

    I didn't know the recording wouldn't pick up my cursor so it makes it a little funny to watch(clicked the meta icon on the top row left side) and I didn't realize CoE was still up, but you see it refresh and me use meta all in one go. Even if I just cast meta and then curse of elements manually while everything looks like it's on cooldown, little spinning colorization thing, it does go off. Though until you said so I didn't know this seemed weird, it does now. Oh and yes I only press the macro once for both spells.
    Last edited by vortextk; 2012-06-30 at 09:26 PM.

  2. #1842
    Stood in the Fire gracfuldeath's Avatar
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    For demo, I've seen numbers from 900k-1.2mil ish for doomguard. So, 150k off might not sound like a lot, but for one gcd spell, it is.

    Imo, from my personal experience and the wrath of the rng gods. 2250 is still way too low for spine (later reading, you do make a point with the nerf at 25% and how that alone makes it hard for several metas regardless of haste) . I used to run with 2.6kish, and still had 4/6 metas per lift at best. Right now since it's on farm and we kill one tendon in one go, I just stick with my afflic reforge of 3k+ haste. That's a bit overkill though. Here's how you should look at it. If on the first lift of each plate, your group is consistently getting it to <40%, more comfortably in the 20-30% range, then having a meta the second lift doesn't matter as much since they probably kill it as you finish dotting up. This means you can stack a bit more mastery, and even use the MWC trinket over the VP trinket (for the trinket swap, I'd definitely consider it only if you get it to the 20-30% range). What that train of thought is: if the group can kill the tendons the second time each time without your meta, then you can stack more mastery for more umph into the first lift. If you can't and you need meta for the second lift, drop mastery for more haste. But either way, still have a decent amount of haste for actual tendon dmg.

    Dont just switch glyphs for spine. Also respec back into Bane. Still use incinerate as a filler, but Bane is a must.

    And I did try to cut off my own arm on spine. And that was only the at 5% nerf. :x

    As for precasting, you should try. Especially if you're looking to get into a harder progressing group. With a proper countdown, you can finish your precast, pop a potion, and start casting your first dot, and the tank pulls just before the precast hits. Just imo, if a group doesn't care enough to do a proper countdown, they aren't going to go far. I'm not saying every countdown has to be perfect, but it's not hard to just go 3 2 1.

    As for the macro, I understood what you meant. I was just wanting to point out that it uses up 2 GCDs. For spine tendons, that's something that matters. Because you have 30s of meta (since you unglyph it for spine), but only 18s on tendon dmg window, you pop meta and CDs before the tendon appears. This way every since move you make goes directly into a dmging affect. With CoE, on spine that's something to definitely make sure you know if someone else auto puts it up. But like I said, there's been several in depth threads here about spine itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by vortextk
    I guess some of those top logs(heroic) are with faster killing groups, legendary and maybe a PI or something; it just doesn't seem like I can compete at all.
    If by compete you mean not able to rank. Then yea. With the 25% nerf, time length becomes a much larger determining factor in ranking. And as always, some people do tricks or special buffs to a specific person to get them to rank. For example, want to try to rank on Yor? Be the only one to aoe on the Yor adds, and have several black phases. For many classes, that's a guarunteed rank. But most people just have everyone aoe them down to make things easier.
    Last edited by gracfuldeath; 2012-06-30 at 11:50 PM.

  3. #1843
    Well I mean true ranking, not padding(aoe and multi-dotting with others not), like ultraxion or something. Even then a rogue was offering thousands of gold for my unholy frenzy on dk once lol but unless all 200 top warlocks for ultraxion are getting outside buffs their damage just seems so high, guess I would need to look.

    Is losing power torrent the only problem with doomguard? I'm usually watching my WoU stacks with an eye on the int proc that will drop the soonest, soon as I get to like 2s I summon which again is usually 7-9 int stacks. That opener was just fubar'd but I wouldn't be sure what else to do to up its damage.

    Let's see..Yeah, I just can't see myself getting double meta anymore. It was difficult before and the amalgams go so fast now. Tendon damage seems like it'll be fine, we got to like 10% on the one try we did do in 2 lifts with the rogue literally falling asleep and being kind of new to that character. I had a few mistakes and I'm sure overall we would get it in 2 easy, and that was with only 1 meta anyway in a haste build. It was late and people were complaining about going longer. I can't use mwc because this character was made in like december and I would start from scratch in molten front dailies lol, though I thought about it(until I read where I would get it from). Honestly I don't even think I have to try much harder for it to not be a problem, but I want to beat people a warlock "shouldn't" be beating on tendons, heh.

    I had to look up that talent because I honestly forgot what it was called but yes, I do need to get bane back again before I go tomorrow thanks. As for count down, sure they do and I usually pre-pot, but they were swapping tanks a lot with one terrible pug(can't face zonozz the right way literally 7 times) and people filling in, but it's more stable now.

    That macro is just my opener I'm tinkering with since I don't have hotkeys for felstorm and having a shift # and ctrl # as opener spells suck and I'm already used to them there when I just need them one at a time, it's not a spine macro. Spine I manually use meta earlier but I'm pretty sure I forget to keep fel flaming the amalgam for int stacks as it blows up.


    Overall I can't tell if going down to the corruption haste point and stacking more mastery helps on a long boss as demo. Sure in a 5man I do more since I'm never going to see two metas even if everyone else pulls 10k, I just couldn't pull off 2 metas on spine and I was going to try a full run next week to see if it felt stronger or weaker for me.

  4. #1844
    Stood in the Fire gracfuldeath's Avatar
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    As for just ranking on Ultrax. Time is still a large factor. Many guild are killing it within 4 HoT's and less. But if you're killing it relatively fast to other ranking guilds, and still not ranking, it comes down to a couple possibilities. 1) You're missing an important buff, like lust or 5% haste. 2) You're spending too much time faded out, meaning you're hitting your button and staying faded out for almost the full duration instead of waiting until the last moment to hit it in order to maximize your dps time. 3) For that particular run, you had a vast majority of the Fading Lights, further decreasing your dps uptime. 4) You're actually not performing/gearing the way you think you are. In that case you should review the logs, run simulations to better gear/reforge, use places like this, etc.

    I haven't done demo in a while, but I pass rank limit each week on Ultrax for destro/afflic without any special buffs (like PI). Not top 10 ranks or anything, but top 100 level. So it's doable, you just have to figure out what you're missing. However with demo, and rng with Impending Doom, being able to rank is a bit more volatile and based on number of metas you can get. In some ways, more haste builds for more total metas

    Quote Originally Posted by vortextk View Post
    Is losing power torrent the only problem with doomguard? I'm usually watching my WoU stacks with an eye on the int proc that will drop the soonest, soon as I get to like 2s I summon which again is usually 7-9 int stacks. That opener was just fubar'd but I wouldn't be sure what else to do to up its damage.

    Overall I can't tell if going down to the corruption haste point and stacking more mastery helps on a long boss as demo. Sure in a 5man I do more since I'm never going to see two metas even if everyone else pulls 10k, I just couldn't pull off 2 metas on spine and I was going to try a full run next week to see if it felt stronger or weaker for me.
    That was your problem on that log with doomguard. PT and LW far outweigh an extra stack or two of WoU. It would take 5-7 stacks of WoU to equal just PT OR LW. Might have just been the fubar'ed opener to missed the perfect window, but just wanted to make sure you knew when the perfect window to pop it was. It's when PT/LW/Pre-pot are all rolling w/ as many stacks of WoU you can get before one falls off. Assuming you can't get both LW and PT to proc at once, LW/Prepot is better than PT/Pre-pot by 80 int. And Prepot alone >>> LW/PT in case neither proc before prepot falls.


    For single target, haste breakpoints mean little. The value of haste belongs more in the amount of movement for a fight. More movement, higher the value of haste. And on the part I bolded, I'm assuming you 2 metas per tendons. It's rare, even at the much lower nerfs to get 6/6 metas per lift was near impossible, but due the the length of the fight, you should get a minimum of 3 metas (1 for each first tendon lift of each plate).

  5. #1845
    I know when to use it with everything, but using that soulstone did screw me. I hit hour of twilight with very little time on it, 1.5ish usually. Yes, 2 metas per tendon I think is impossible now, I didn't mean to say spine. 36k just feels incredibly low for ultrax at that ilevel, we had lust, obviously coe and magic crit debuff, a decent DI target and magical haste. I think I was just missing 3% damage.

    Couldn't actually do spine or madness this week since we couldn't fill in a third healer, so we just took who we had on and pugged the rest for gems. I afk'd half of both fights in a spec without meta glyph, left my bottled wishes on instead of cunning kind of accidentally kind of not caring and just stayed in demo on madness since I had like 1k less haste, didn't feel like going affliction and multi-dotting(especially cross platform) on normal madness only wipes you anyway now at 25% debuff. Lol I really hate how boring and pointless those fights are on normal, wasn't any good reason to actually switch from super burst spine mode to anything else to beat them.

  6. #1846
    I don't know if I still care, I don't know if anyone else cares to look, but full logs from last week. When super great play really matters again, I don't think warlock play will resemble much of what it is now(I have beta but haven't played it, not keen on leveling temp characters).

    Logs and epeenbot, for one specific reason, ultraxion(lol, again)
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/f...?s=3583&e=3831
    http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/kil%27jaeden/yuriia/

    Happy with the first 3 bosses, hagara is whatever, spine I did 4.4mil on tendons pulling third barely behind second so I'm happy there and didn't really bother attacking much else on it and madness I was playing affliction a bit poorly(been forever since I multi-dotted madness!) and people were going way too crazy on the bloods early so I didn't spellweave pad at all. I had like 200k damage on bloods. And then ultraxion. All these 80+ percentiles on the fights I cared about this week, and then a 50? I feel like I'm really doing something wrong if I do so much worse comparatively on a complete stand still and dps fight than all of the movement related fights earlier(I don't stay on boss on zonozz or yorsahj and am obviously running to crystals on morchok), but I don't feel as if I play any different, so are the best people just THAT much better when they don't have to focus on moving or swapping targets?

  7. #1847
    Stood in the Fire gracfuldeath's Avatar
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    For Ultraxion, ranking becomes a lot more than just how well you play. Time length is a crucial factor, so is lust and 3% dmg, and number of fading lights. For example. Top demo rank fight length was 2:25min, and 200th rank was 3:08min. Your fight was 4:07. It's a significant enough difference to drop you behind in overall dps. Longer the fight, less uptime on things like meta, which means more times that you're not doing your highest possible dmg, which means less average dps.

    You didn't lust at the start. The best time to lust on a fight, dps wise and barring any mechanics like Warlord who takes more damage later on in the fight, is at the start. If it's because your healers want lust for when "the healing gets hard" then you should have been having the healers fade out at the start, lust, their faded so they don't get lust/sated, and then they can lust again when they want to. Or you can tell them to suck it up because you don't get to the heavy healing part with a 4min kill anymore.

    You're two healing it. All 10ms solo heal Ultraxion since like the 5% nerf or less. Your shammy should be more than capable of doing it, and your pally has to be really really really bad to not be able to do it (top 35+ world 10m heroic ranks are all pallies). The fact you're two healing it is hurting your time length. And because you're two healing it, they shouldn't need lust at all.

    You were shadowbolt spec. These days to rank (or at least rank well) you have to be incinerate spec for this fight and get really lucky ID procs. You will get more dmg out of incinerate at this point for you as well. Looking at the top ranked lock. Only 46 incinerate casts (2:25m length), 1.7mil dmg. You had 51 Shadow bolt casts, 1.3mil dmg. Pretty big difference. Looking at the 200th ranked locked, he was SB spec, 1.9mil dmg, 62 casts.

    EDIT: Looking more at the 200th ranked lock...what are you doing half the time? He had a full minute less of a fight, and 10 more shadow bolt casts than you. He's either running a full haste set, and I mean a really full haste set, or...when you fade out, you're fading out way too early and 3-4s of if just sitting there waiting for whatever you faded out for to happen. The closer you can push it to pressing that button at the last moment, the better damage. Or you're not hitting something on GCD, every GCD. Or you're spending too many GCDs doing other things, such as overclipping dots. Or you're not casting a filler and waiting 1-2s for a CD like HoG or shadowflame to come off cooldown and hit that instead. That's a no no. Every GCD must be used. And that 1s of waiting is 75%ish of a incinerate cast. Meaning it hurts you more to do nothing and wait than to fill in and hit HoG/SF .5s after it's off CD.

    You're still probably overclipping BoD. At first I thought it was just because of lucky meta timing, but no, it's overclipping. There's a chance that whoever logged the fight faded out during the time it fell off and you refreshed it, so it wasn't recorded. Or you're just overclipping.

    You're sometimes overclipping Corruption. You're either spot on right before it falls off, or you're clipping 3s too early. For 15 casts, about 5 of them were a bit early. So work on that timing some more. Incinerate spec with a faster filler will help a bit on that too. /ENDEDIT

    Your doomguard was still very weak as demo. If it were afflic/destro, I'd say it was ok. 760k dmg for demo? Kinda low. Both the 1st ranked and 200th ranked locks have over 1mil dmg from their doomguard. You popped it at the best time you could. PT/LW/Prepot all up and 9 stacks of WoU. Which means the problem lies within your gear. You're not stacking enough int or mastery somewhere, and you're not in your demo reforge so I can't tell. With the concern of gems, and costs of regemming when changing specs. The only gear with yellow sockets that you will keep are your chest and your legs (both tier). You should work on getting two of each, one for MS and one for OS. One set with int/haste, one with int/mastery. Your boots, by now you should have well over enough VP to buy a second set for the same reasoning. For your gloves, you want greater mastery for demo, enchants are much cheaper to change, especially since the 50 haste is so cheap.

    Also, because of the extended length of the doomguard for demo, HCoC/HICM can be the better combo, if ICM is used right. Above all procs, Doomguard is popped while ICM is up. You still wait to see what other procs you can get rolling at once, but ICM is the key. But again I believe the main source of the loss of damage is within the gear. #1 ranked lock just used WoU/CoC. But it doesn't hurt to pick up ICM instead of DEing it, it is BiS for destro.

    You did have 5 fading lights, which meant they were spread out amongst people kinda evenly. But that's not good for you, you want it all on others and none on you.


    Oh........Your DI target died. And you didn't re DI him. You did want to try to rank, right? :P
    Last edited by gracfuldeath; 2012-07-12 at 05:18 PM.

  8. #1848
    Did I want to rank? No, never, but 50th percentile? Bah. I was shadowbolt because I had kept it from earlier and didn't want to go back and forth for boss kills. I've done it in incin and did worse or the same before anyway.

    This isn't about ranking, this is about just looking really low overall. Like I said, 80th+ on like 4 boss fights, and then 50 on ultraxion.

    This IS my demo refoge, I'm haste build. I'm not reforging after every fight because it's just not needed at this debuff, time spent, and 80th~+ on 3 fights as haste spec demo, it was just ultraxion I don't understand. I have a lfr insignia, I haven't used it in like 6 months. If it's gear or spec or rotation it feels like I should be very middle of the pack on all the fights. Some of those people MADLY complain about the time every single raid, even though we did an entire heroic clear(the first most of those have ever seen on any character, my dk is already done) in much less than 3 hours for the first time doing spine/madness so I just don't want to leave every fight and come back reforged or in a new spec.

    I think lust was down at the start and we just waited for it, but I've had it at the start before and never do the numbers I assume I would do anyway.

    I definitely have the maximum allowable int in my build. Pure epics in all heroic pieces, every int enchant, double profession.

    If it's just bad lust time, slow kill from other people, some randomness with my meta, then I guess I have to live with it. However that damage is higher than what I did the past few kills I believe, and it just makes me feel like I'm playing wrong.
    Last edited by vortextk; 2012-07-12 at 05:14 PM.

  9. #1849
    Stood in the Fire gracfuldeath's Avatar
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    Sigh. You mistake my "want to rank" for "want to do good." Feel better now?

    Haste demo build wit that long of a fight? You won't do well compared to others then on Ultrax. In a sense, yes. You are playing demo wrong. Haste demo builds are only considered on high movement fights, and/or very short fights, or spine.

    Dont use LFR ICM.

    Lust at the start is BiS because every single enchant/trinket/buff that can proc that could proc will proc all at once. Combine that with faster attack/casting speed. And win.

    The int and mastery comment was more reference to getting better gear. Otherwise I would have noted not having the right gems. My bad for not specifying that.

    Make sure you reread the middle of my wall of text for my edited section. There's more to it than just bad lust time, meta, and slower kill.

    You don't want to change spec or reforge between fights, especially since most of them have trash beforehand and time to kill, and the reason is because you don't want to waste time. Then why are you trying to compare yourself to anyone? The time it takes to change these things is <<<<<<<<<< time to kill trash before bosses. If you're group complains about your damage if you're not allowed to, then you have the right to tell them to butt suck it for and QQs on your dmg.

    You're not doing your best to perform your best. You knowingly do this. And then you go back and question why you are doing poorly.

  10. #1850
    I give up, I don't give a fuck then ok.

  11. #1851
    Hiya, I've been raiding as Demonology for a few months now so I'm still new. I keep getting rather low (comparatively) DPS on Heroic Madness and I'm just not sure if it's because of the nerfs and my higher geared raid comp downing adds too quickly for my CD's/DoT's to be fully effective or if it's a straight up spell priority issue.

    Here is my latest Madness log:

    worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-6jnmhvyiog5ihrcw/details/1/

    And my armory:

    battle.net/wow/en/character/cenarius/Mestra/simple

  12. #1852
    Quote Originally Posted by vortextk View Post
    I give up, I don't give a fuck then ok.
    5 - Yuriia Demonology 902 9395566 1497336 244143 False 37914.9 - 47528.5 79.8%
    That 80% of the one who logged 200. All over it are crazy crit streaks, no fades, magic intent, mastery-pre-pull set, faster kill timer and whatever. If all that would be in your luck you would have reached even greater numbers. But be sure there is also things you can improve yourself as already mentioned..
    Last edited by Keren; 2012-07-13 at 08:51 AM.

    Wildstar Black Ops - loved by strangers

  13. #1853
    Stood in the Fire gracfuldeath's Avatar
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    I don't know which was funnier, the pulling random numbers out of no where (which you edited out), or the fact that his rank limit was actually the 80% he wanted and not 50%.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-13 at 07:56 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Xandy View Post
    Hiya, I've been raiding as Demonology for a few months now so I'm still new. I keep getting rather low (comparatively) DPS on Heroic Madness and I'm just not sure if it's because of the nerfs and my higher geared raid comp downing adds too quickly for my CD's/DoT's to be fully effective or if it's a straight up spell priority issue.

    Here is my latest Madness log:

    worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-6jnmhvyiog5ihrcw/details/1/

    And my armory:

    battle.net/wow/en/character/cenarius/Mestra/simple
    Armory wise, you're over hit cap by almost a full percent. And you're reforged into too much haste. For demo we stack mastery. I recommend using a site like wowreforge.com, it can get pretty precise in it's calculations and iterations.

    Madness is a pretty difficult fight to inspect, but I'll do my best. Generally, the nerfing does hurt your damage. Bloods die faster, so less cleaving/dotting/spellweave whoring you're allowed to do otherwise you'll accidentally kill them at the wrong time (assuming you don't kill them immediately). The faster you push each platform, the less cataclysm uptime you have, which is a big damage boost (although this wasn't an extremely fast kill, so this might not have happened).

    There's some hellfire using going on, not sure if it's by accident or not since it's for very small lengths, but we don't use hellfire on Madness because it doesn't proc spellweave. Rain of Fire is the aoe we use for bloods. You are saving meta/Demon Soul for each mutated corruption, which is a good thing. You didn't use meta on the fourth platform, not sure why, but it should have been off CD for it. If you were concerned about it not being up for phase 2, you shouldn't be. It should be up, and most strats don't call for the zerg on the head until after the first or second add wave.

    You need to make sure you're casting Hand of Gul'dan on CD. Sometimes it was on CD, but most of the time it was between 20s, 30s, or even a minute after it was off CD. This includes Shadowflame as well if in melee range (if you aren't, you should ask if you can be in since it is a damage gain). Personally I have weakauras to help remind me of them.

    Your corruption uptime could use a bit of improvement, especially on the third and fourth platforms. Because we don't have quick short bursty moves, your goal on the blistering tendons is to get out as many dots as you can quickly, and then settle on the ones that are usually gotten to last by others. Multi dot them with corruption, this will also give you the chance for some instant SB procs to help kill them faster.

    For when it comes to zerging the head, make sure you still keep up all your dots. You didn't ahve a BoD or BoA on the head at the end, which is a loss because any dots up buff your felhunter.

    A good chunk of where you can gain damage is by using certain spells on CD, HoG really helps with immolate because you'll only need to cast it once on your primary target. After that, it's really where you can pump out more spellweave damage. A kill is a kill, and besides working on keeping those spells on CD, buffing up spellweave damage leads more into meter padding which isn't always productive. Based on what you're doing with the bloods, it can be productive, but only to a point.

    For aoeing the bloods in general, always start out with a good shadowflame on all of them, and drop a rain of fire on them.
    Last edited by gracfuldeath; 2012-07-13 at 06:26 PM.

  14. #1854
    thanks for the response gracfuldeath

    Armory wise, you're over hit cap by almost a full percent. And you're reforged into too much haste. For demo we stack mastery. I recommend using a site like wowreforge.com, it can get pretty precise in it's calculations and iterations.
    That's actually my alternate gear set, I have a mastery gear set (18.25 mastery) which was what I used for that fight. I use reforgenator add-on right now but maybe I'll try wowreforge again and see if I can get closer to hit cap.

    There's some hellfire using going on, not sure if it's by accident or not since it's for very small lengths, but we don't use hellfire on Madness because it doesn't proc spellweave. Rain of Fire is the aoe we use for bloods. You are saving meta/Demon Soul for each mutated corruption, which is a good thing. You didn't use meta on the fourth platform, not sure why, but it should have been off CD for it.
    Yes the Hellfire was used for the moving bloods in phase 2 and I was asked to save Immolation Aura for the phase 2 bloods as well by not using Meta on the fourth platform. I will raise this issue to my RL next run.

    You need to make sure you're casting Hand of Gul'dan on CD. Sometimes it was on CD, but most of the time it was between 20s, 30s, or even a minute after it was off CD. This includes Shadowflame as well if in melee range (if you aren't, you should ask if you can be in since it is a damage gain). Personally I have weakauras to help remind me of them.

    Your corruption uptime could use a bit of improvement, especially on the third and fourth platforms. Because we don't have quick short bursty moves, your goal on the blistering tendons is to get out as many dots as you can quickly, and then settle on the ones that are usually gotten to last by others. Multi dot them with corruption, this will also give you the chance for some instant SB procs to help kill them faster.

    For when it comes to zerging the head, make sure you still keep up all your dots. You didn't ahve a BoD or BoA on the head at the end, which is a loss because any dots up buff your felhunter.
    Yea that's definitely bad, I will focus on those CD's and keeping my DoT's up on all adds and on the Head during phase 2, though I think I recall having to stop DPS on the Head at some points.

    This was my first or second Madness Kill and I'm still learning, I'm also pretty new to Warlock and I only started learning Demo when I got into a heroic progression guild a few months back for the SP buff. Anyway I'll try to do better thanks again for the reply.

  15. #1855
    Stood in the Fire gracfuldeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xandy View Post
    That's actually my alternate gear set, I have a mastery gear set (18.25 mastery) which was what I used for that fight. I use reforgenator add-on right now but maybe I'll try wowreforge again and see if I can get closer to hit cap.
    Definitely use a site over reforgenator or reforge lite addons. Those don't do as many iterations as the website does (due to addon memory use) and find a quick result rather than a more accurate result. That site I listed also give you the option to set in your stat weights, as well as adjusting stat weights after certain stat ratings. Such as if you wanted to decrease the value of haste after 2681, you can set it to put haste at a minimum of 2681, and then have a new stat weight of something lower than mastery but higher than crit. This way it'll look for more mastery after that point, but still prioritize haste over crit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xandy View Post
    Yes the Hellfire was used for the moving bloods in phase 2 and I was asked to save Immolation Aura for the phase 2 bloods as well by not using Meta on the fourth platform. I will raise this issue to my RL next run.
    If killing the bloods is a problem and they're solving it by having you save and use meta for them, then that's their call (although personally I would suggest the issue lies with everyone else providing more damage themselves, since meta is a strong damage CD and should be use more for the zerging the head. But again, RL's decision in the end). But regardless, still use Rain of Fire instead of Hellfire. What actually kills the bloods is not the aoe, it's the aoe spellweave proc from your attacks. With or without meta, your blood aoe should always include shadow flame which gives a initial burst to proc spellweave plus a fast ticking dot on multiple targets to proc spellweave on each tick, followed by dropping rain of fire in a way that the bloods will be moving through it as long as possible, meaning drop it a little ahead and let them travel through it. Rain of Fire is chosen as the aoe spell because of again, how fast it procs spellweave. The ticks between each hit are faster than casting SoC + travel distance + detonation, and hellfire unfortunately doesn't proc spellweave.


    Quote Originally Posted by Xandy View Post
    Yea that's definitely bad, I will focus on those CD's and keeping my DoT's up on all adds and on the Head during phase 2, though I think I recall having to stop DPS on the Head at some points.
    Yea, most strats call for stopping dps at certain health percents. I didn't mean to say keep dots rolling during one of the stop DPS points, that is a definite no no. I apologize for that confusion. What I meant was that at the point that it appeared it was "dps it until the kill," you were missing BoA/BoD. Sometimes people think "Oh it's a burst time, so more filler and I don't have to put up a rarely ticking dot like BoD," but you're losing damage since Shadow Bite isn't hitting as hard as it could.

    I am assuming you're doing a strat that's along the lines of:
    -dps to 16-17% and stop, wait for tentacle adds
    -kill tentacle adds, kill two tanked adds, push past 15% hp
    -kill bloods, continue pushing to 11-12% and stop, wait for adds
    -kill tentacle adds, kill tanked adds, push 10% hp, kill bloods, continue pushing until the kill, ignoring all adds but the bloods at 5%

    That bolded part of the strat is what I mean by "dps until the kill."

  16. #1856
    Hey guys below is our guilds Ultraxion Log from last week. We ran out of time on heroics for the week and had to switch it down to normal. That said this was the week of our DPS competition and we were all preparing heavily for it. I'm asking if you guys could check out what I did and offer any suggestions and also I wanted to ask a few things about Warlord.

    But first, I wanted to perhaps say that I've always done very well on the meters, usually 1 or 2, and 1-4 in 25m (casual hardcore) but my prefered spec has been Affliction for the past few tiers and I've only used Demo in the past for an AoE gimic fights such as Maloriak adds...I got very good with Affliction double dotting and making sure my Bane of Doom always had the highest spellpower, coupled with Demon Soul when possible. As long as you didn't f up your execute you were golden, I loved it. I'm finding Demo more challenging, very roller coaster style on the meters, and weaker on overall strengths. I much preferred the steady but good dmg off aff with you coming in for the lead sub 25%, amazing 2 target dmg, and passable AoE dmg. Demo you can be riding way low on the meters to come up to the top it seems just on a Meta/Doomguard, only to sail back down heavily...The only reason I'm playing atm is I'm the only person providing our raid with any spellpower buff at all...

    On Ultra I went ahead and got a Mastery gear swap set and I had about 1400 extra mastery pre pull. I was riding top of the meters until I feel like the last 1min or so when our hunter over took me and then finally within maybe 15 secs of the fight ending the rogue overtook. I believe I'm correctly follow my rotations, any advice would be great. We're all very close on dps I think he edged me as he got 1 fading light and I got 2 but I'm not sure. However I simmed higher than him so...maybe it should have been a wash?

    As to my Warlord Questions. I'm wondering when I should be popping Doomguard? The last black phase? or the begin with a mastery gear swap? I would think during one of the higher dmg phase fights but I'm finding our guild is struggling to kill the adds and I'm getting almost no time on the boss. I'm assuming MWC might be the best trinket here for the on demand mastery for demo in the black phases? Here I very much I was affliction so I can just, apply my dots to one add, soul swap my dots and keep them all rolling on Warlord pretty easily...I don't try to keep up dots on the boss as Demo atm, as we've been trying to down the 3 adds we're assigned to in the black and Demos not as strong on dots anyway but more single target, but I do multi dot both and focus on 1 until dead.

    Much appreciated!

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-09...?s=7808&e=8015

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Rannoch/simple
    Last edited by rap87; 2012-07-14 at 09:59 PM.

  17. #1857
    Hello, after a long break I decided to activate my account again and thought I'd drop by here to ask for a little help. For a long time I only played as an affliction warlock unless asked specifically to play as another spec. So after about a one year break, I'm back to the game and apparently demo is the best spec out there followed closely by affliction. However try as I might I can break the 25k barrier. Perhaps that's because I'm not used to demo just yet but still, I would have expected better. I've read past posts in this thread and it appears to me that I'm not doing so bad with dots and all. I'm not actively raiding so I've done a single ultraxion kill earlier today and I thought I'd post it here of reference.

    WoL: worldoflogs.com/reports/qdsoau7xpty1g568
    Armory: eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/earthen-ring/Cracks/simple

    PS: I think I should mention my reforges since mastery is better than haste for demo. I've been demo specced for a couple of days only so all my reforges are to get as much haste as possible (for affliction). Enchants aren't the best either but that's only because the items are very prone to be replaced right now.

    Thank you very much in advance.

  18. #1858
    Stood in the Fire gracfuldeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    Hey guys below is our guilds Ultraxion Log from last week. We ran out of time on heroics for the week and had to switch it down to normal. That said this was the week of our DPS competition and we were all preparing heavily for it. I'm asking if you guys could check out what I did and offer any suggestions and also I wanted to ask a few things about Warlord.

    Much appreciated!

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-09...?s=7808&e=8015

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Rannoch/simple
    As for demo and it's up and down on the meters, you can view us somewhat like arcane mages. With meta we go PEWPEWPEW, then without meta we're just pew..pew. The longer a fight goes, the lower our dps gets because the overall amount of time we're in meta keeps decreasing. Looking at where you popped meta and the time length of the fight, you were about where you're getting close to meta being ready again, but then the fight ended. After our meta, our dps # steadily declines until we pop meta again. So you were at your lowest dps point just when the fight was ending :/ If it had lasted another 30s to a minute ish, you probably would have had meta to pop and would have come out on top. Or if the fight had ended soon after your second meta, you would have been far out on top as well. Simming also =/= actual combat. If you simmed patchwork, well patchwork is not ultraxion. When you simmed it, the fight length might have been different. And simming is the average of thousands of fight runs, which include many that are higher than the average and many that are lower than the average.

    Gear first. For all the specs, the mastery/run speed is the way to go. If you're purely demo and refuse to get the run speed, then get the mastery. If you're super always purely demo, then int/mastery orange gems is the way to go. Eventually you can get multiple sets of a piece and have them gemmed differently for afflic and demo, because it gets pretty expensive if you try swapping gems every time you change specs. But if you run affliction often, sticking with int/haste won't hurt, just won't help with demo. Get +20 stats to chest, it's not expensive and yes it's worth it. Imo, no excuse to not have bis enchants, unless it's the start of a new tier and the epic enchant mats are still like 10k cuz no one DE's an epic at the start xD

    Talent wise, Demonic Aegis >>>>> Master Summoner. So swap that 2/2 point in MS for 2/2 into DA.

    Looking at Ultrax for any bigger mistakes first.

    You're opener is slightly off. You did immo > corruption > BoD, and you didn't soulburn until after those. Soulburn needs to be cast before dotting, and you dot Immo > BoD > Corruption. Everything else in the opener looked fine. Your dot uptimes were good, Corruption needs a tiny bit of work and Shadowflame needs to be cast on CD every time, not just most of the time.

    You're overclipping BoD. BoD is only clipped when Buffs present > Previous buffs when cast. Simply put, if you put BoD up with Meta, don't clip it when you don't have meta. Never clip your first BoD since it is amazin (lots of procs and DS:Felguard and meta). When in doubt, don't clip.

    Your doomguard was a little weak. Unlucky RNG gave only a 2s window of opportunity for the optimal time to pop it, but you didn't pop it until 5s after that which shows to me you didn't realize when the perfect time to pop it is. The optimal time to pop the doom guard for most fights is during the opener, when you have as many procs proccing (power torrent, lightweave, WoU stacks) while your pre-pot is still active. In your case, You had Power torrent and Volcanic Destruction (DMC:V) procced at the same time for ~2s before Power Torrent faded. Sometimes it's a small window, sometimes it's huge, and sometime's you don't have a window. If PT and DMC:V aren't procced at the same time, popping doomguard during DMC:V is better than during PT (1600 int vs 500 int).

    If you want to get a bit fancier, it is beneficial to recast BoD when you summon your doomguard at it's best time as well. But, if you clip that BoD, you're basically wasting the benefit of rebuffing it in the first place.

    Look at warmaster, you're multidotting is pretty low for the first set of adds, only multidotting one melee and one drake. The second set was better, but didn't get them out as fast on each of them. The third would have been the best, but you didn't get corruption up on a drake as it flew over. And in all cases you didn't get dots up on both drakes as they flew over. Affliction makes multidotting a lot easier on this fight, and more fun imo lol. And rocket fuel leak

    For warlord, again, shadowflame on CD as well as all I said for Ultrax. As for doomguard popping, it's after the last time you expect the ball to hit the boss, assuming the doomguard dies before the boss does. You have to completely judge it by how you're group seems to be able to kill it each time.

    As for heroic, expect minimal time on the boss during the black phase as a ranged. You each should be assigned an add or two, and you should think about it as this: Faster I kill my specified adds, the faster I can get back on the boss and do a shit ton more of dps. Affliction or destro is definitely the way you should go for heroic. If you were specified one add only, I'd say destro because it can burst a single target add. But since you're designated to hit three adds, I'd say affliction. If worrying about dots on the boss is hurting you, then don't do it. If anything, make sure you've refreshed your dots on the boss just before you go off to your adds, at least then you'll have left with a fresh set on him. As for pet management, if your focus is the farthest one away, send him straight to that. If you can kill it without your pet, keep him on zon.

    I also don't know a lot about boomkins, but I know how to track dots. Looking at the 2min+ fights, it wasn't until try #7 that I saw any multidotting. He should also be using solar beam on the eyes, and you can spell lock them too with the felhunter to reduce the damage they deal out.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-15 at 07:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by wisredz View Post
    Hello, after a long break I decided to activate my account again and thought I'd drop by here to ask for a little help. For a long time I only played as an affliction warlock unless asked specifically to play as another spec. So after about a one year break, I'm back to the game and apparently demo is the best spec out there followed closely by affliction. However try as I might I can break the 25k barrier. Perhaps that's because I'm not used to demo just yet but still, I would have expected better. I've read past posts in this thread and it appears to me that I'm not doing so bad with dots and all. I'm not actively raiding so I've done a single ultraxion kill earlier today and I thought I'd post it here of reference.

    WoL: worldoflogs.com/reports/qdsoau7xpty1g568
    Armory: eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/earthen-ring/Cracks/simple

    PS: I think I should mention my reforges since mastery is better than haste for demo. I've been demo specced for a couple of days only so all my reforges are to get as much haste as possible (for affliction). Enchants aren't the best either but that's only because the items are very prone to be replaced right now.

    Thank you very much in advance.
    Welcome back then! Personally I just deactivated my account :x But luckily nothing changes until MoP stuff.

    All three specs are actually balanced to be pretty equal. The difference comes down to fight mechanics and skill, and sometimes a bit of luck. Where you might see someone ranked on demo as #1 being >>>> to #1 afflic for ultrax, it's because they got 2 metas in a 2min fight (getting lucky and making meta a <1min CD instead of a 2-3min CD).

    As for your gear, Foul Gift of the Demon Lord (FGDL) is a crappy trinket for all specs. If you can get your hands on a DMC:V, that'll be one of the best next to DS trinkets. The 50 int to bracers is the enchant you'll want for those when you deem they're enchantable, which is really any ilvl 378+ imo, as well as mastery/run speed to boots and greater mastery to gloves for demo. Also Power Torrent to the weapon. And don't forget your helm enchant!

    As for the logs. You're opener is slightly off. The general opener for demo is pre-pot> pre-cast Shadow Bolt or Incinerate (based on demo spec) > combat > CoE (if needed) > Meta/DS:Felguard + Felstorm when pet in range > Activate Soulburn > Immolate > BoD > Corruption > HoG > Shadowflame (if in melee range) > Filler (shadow bolt or Incinerate based on spec). And the moment feltsorm ends (38s left on the CD, or when he stops spinning), use the activated soulburn to summon the felhunter.

    You did Corruption > BoD > Immolate, and you waited too long to swap to the felhunter. The felguard got in several regular melee attacks before he was swapped out. Shadowflaming was amazing, keep at that. Soulburn can be held off until you actually swap pets since you don't have 4pc, but it'd be good practice for now to do it before dots since it will eventually give you a buff.

    BoD was done appropriately, not clipped when it shouldn't have been. Though you could have refreshed it during the third meta, but it's fine if you don't. The important part is not clipping a buffed meta, which you did correctly.

    Your doomguard was very weak. 250k for demo is very very low. Some of it is because of the lack of higher gear and proccing enchants (like PT) to pop it with, but you still need to make sure you pop it at the optimal time. The optimal time to pop the doom guard for most fights is during the opener, when you have as many procs proccing (power torrent, lightweave, WoU stacks) while your pre-pot is still active.

    Looks like most of your problems are fine tuning a few things, definitely several gear related issues (PvP and spirit gear), and having the better enchants (they do a lot more in your dmg than people generally think).

  19. #1859
    1. Going paragraph by paragraph. Well much appreciated this awesome response. I just had a few questions. Thanks for confirming the feeling/results of DEMO being so up and down. With that in mind should you be using DEMO on CD as much as possible (I assume this is an obvious yes). But are there ever fights where holding it is worth more say Warlord for the 100% dmg and if so how much time should you wait before it is a big dps loss?

    2. Will get these upgrades and also noticing my competition had put all +50 gems in his, time to put the +50 in at least my 397 pieces, but those boys are really expensive on my server. On the +20, I'll get that if its within a reasonable price, but I wanted to at least get a 397 first. Just cause I'm low on cash. But trust me I'm a guy that agrees with min/maxing and what not. I did the dailies for MWC when I mainspecced Affliction just in case I ever went Demo...lol glad I did heh. And also ran the 5mans like crazy for that week getting mastery pieces when I found out about that mastery gear swap heh.

    Talent wise, Demonic Aegis >>>>> Master Summoner. So swap that 2/2 point in MS for 2/2 into DA.

    3. Will do on the talent swap any suggestions for the extra point? I typically have never used the trinket talent for the demon?

    4. For the opener I had only did BoD last hoping I got more procs in case I didn't have time to overwrite it a second time for more spellpower etc. Is it a huge dps loss for say 1 proc and BoD with DS vs. couple procs and DS? Or if it gets close don't worry about overwriting? As for what needs work for Corruption should I clip that with big spellpower buffs? Or just wait till its about to expire?

    5. For clipping BoD understood I was probably definitely overclipping. My next question would be would you consider clipping the last one under 14 secs if you got great spellpower procs? Or would you just left it fall of completely and just overwrite the new one when you got a better hand?

    6. On the Doomguard I knew when to pop it but I guess I misunderstood the mechanic. I know my Doomguard snapshots stats. Does it also snapshot my Meta and do the Meta dmg the whole time? I was thinking that I would want to get my DG out as fast as possible after a reasonable amount of procs because I thought I'd waste 5 or more secs of Meta time with no DG up...If he just snapshots my Meta then yeah I should wait until the last possible second for the most procs...Also for Immolation Aura is it better to wate for the big spellpower one or try to get in 2? I've been going for the big spellpower buff lately, after reading some guides.

    7. For MultiDotting as Demo should you do Immo/Corruption on everything first and then tab back for Agony and how long would it have to live for Agony to be worth it? So far I've just tried to put up all 3 and move on?

    For warlord, again, shadowflame on CD as well as all I said for Ultrax. As for doomguard popping, it's after the last time you expect the ball to hit the boss, assuming the doomguard dies before the boss does. You have to completely judge it by how you're group seems to be able to kill it each time.

    8. So your saying just pop in when I think I'll get the full duration out of it? And on this fight you would use MWC I would guess to pop for that?

    Lastly, I remember I have my snypase springs just macroed to shadowbolt but I notice I get a CD on it with other trinkets etc when used. Am I losing a ton of DPS on Doomguard by missing that one buff or in general is it fine? I think its just when I have MWC equipped and when I gearswap its usually fine and up when I need it but I notice when I run MWC its harder to line up...Also usually didn't precast a SB because of the CD of it.

    Much appreciated. I don't expect you to analyze these too much but maybe give a quick opinion. I felt tonight I did great on Morchok and with the shorter fight time I think you can see the gear swap gave me a nice lead. I didn't multi dot bosses were way to far off. I was also having to call the stomps crystals out and still did well. Also Warlord we had to go back to normal but me and the hunter were dead on and I ended the fight with like 25 secs left on meta . Thanks again. Going to fix gems/enchants and work on my rotation more. I think putting into practice these lil things and correcting misconceptions will get me to where I was as Affliction, I'd say without the pet swapping and If I could use the same gear between specs I'd love Demo a bit more heh.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-x6...?s=3086&e=3300

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-x6...?s=9573&e=9770

    *Also side note any idea what type heals should be going out on Warlord?*

    Again really appreciate this very thorough response I will definitely be putting this into practice. I love being a "Good" lock player and pushing my limits..

    *edit fixed boot enchant, fixed the socket bonus items to +mastery, and went to wow-reforge and redid my reforge for 1993 haste after that mastery reforges. Also put +50 in gloves. Going to see if I can get some more +50 at raid tonight.
    Last edited by rap87; 2012-07-16 at 07:29 AM.

  20. #1860
    Stood in the Fire gracfuldeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    1. Going paragraph by paragraph. Well much appreciated this awesome response. I just had a few questions. Thanks for confirming the feeling/results of DEMO being so up and down. With that in mind should you be using DEMO on CD as much as possible (I assume this is an obvious yes). But are there ever fights where holding it is worth more say Warlord for the 100% dmg and if so how much time should you wait before it is a big dps loss?
    For most fights, yes meta on CD or at least wait no more than 15s, except for things like phase transition about to hit where you'd be in meta doing nothing. For a fight like Warlord...it ends up being an on the spot call with how many circumstances there could be. If you're on multiple adds, why demo in the first place? Is it adds going down that's the trouble? then using meta on them would help. If they're no trouble and they will be down within at most 30-45s and back to the boss, you might be able to save it. If you're on the boss and not adds, if the ball will hit him in the next 30-45s then you could save it since you'll be guaranteed boss only attacks.

    There's rarely a definite answer. Your gear also matters a lot too, such as how much haste do you have? Because that increases the chance of ID procs to lower meta, which affects your average meta CD. Generally speaking though, if you hold meta off for longer than a minute, you're probably hurting yourself. And you also want to make sure that when you are popping meta, it's during a damage time, not a running around to the next add time. Sorry I cant give a definitive yes or no, but many things are a on the spot call.

    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    2. Will get these upgrades and also noticing my competition had put all +50 gems in his, time to put the +50 in at least my 397 pieces, but those boys are really expensive on my server. On the +20, I'll get that if its within a reasonable price, but I wanted to at least get a 397 first. Just cause I'm low on cash. But trust me I'm a guy that agrees with min/maxing and what not. I did the dailies for MWC when I mainspecced Affliction just in case I ever went Demo...lol glad I did heh. And also ran the 5mans like crazy for that week getting mastery pieces when I found out about that mastery gear swap heh.
    If you want to find the perfect mastery set, look into this thread (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...mo+mastery+set) it has the setup of the highest obtainable amount of mastery for a preswap set.

    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    3. Will do on the talent swap any suggestions for the extra point? I typically have never used the trinket talent for the demon?
    Because the health regen in far superior in terms of progression and survivability than half a second of casting a demon, which you don't have to do as demo unless your pet is dumb (meaning you don't manage him well) and dies more than once every 2 minutes. Even one point in Aura of Foreboding is better than Master Summoner, but that's much more of a personal choice since AoF would only affect adds in a fight. (EDIT: Reread it and it was a "I'll do it" statement but ended with a ? so I though it was "Why do it" lol)

    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    4. For the opener I had only did BoD last hoping I got more procs in case I didn't have time to overwrite it a second time for more spellpower etc. Is it a huge dps loss for say 1 proc and BoD with DS vs. couple procs and DS? Or if it gets close don't worry about overwriting? As for what needs work for Corruption should I clip that with big spellpower buffs? Or just wait till its about to expire?

    5. For clipping BoD understood I was probably definitely overclipping. My next question would be would you consider clipping the last one under 14 secs if you got great spellpower procs? Or would you just left it fall of completely and just overwrite the new one when you got a better hand?
    Rolled these into one.
    You do BoD before Corruption because it has a higher DPET in the opening rotation. Recasting it later with tons of procs also leads to 5 buffed procs. It's not going to be a 5k dps difference if you don't, but it can mean the difference in terms of a rank or for those really close meter races. As for corruption, you don't really need to micro manage and refresh it at those point, but you do not let it fall off. Always clip corruption just before the last tick. However, whenever you pop a lot of CDs (like meta), do refresh corruption relatively quickly because that is a difference. Immolate will be update with your next HoG cast, and you would refresh BoD at some point during meta.

    Personally, I like to focus on the fight itself and things, and I only pay attention to the times I'd have Power Torrent and Lightweave rolling together to refresh BoD, or if I was Demo I'd 90% of the time do it at the start of meta, then once again before meta falls off (which gives 6-7 meta buffed BoD ticks). Micromanaging your buffs like this is not always easy. Easier route is to make sure you put up BoD at the start of each meta and between the 30s mark on BoD and before meta falls off again, don't clip it otherwise. If you do notice an example like question 5, you clip it. When you put a fresh BoD up, it will have 4 ticks (45s, 30s, 15s, 0s), but when you clip a BoD, it will have 5 ticks (1min, 45s, 30s, 15s, 0s).

    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    6. On the Doomguard I knew when to pop it but I guess I misunderstood the mechanic. I know my Doomguard snapshots stats. Does it also snapshot my Meta and do the Meta dmg the whole time? I was thinking that I would want to get my DG out as fast as possible after a reasonable amount of procs because I thought I'd waste 5 or more secs of Meta time with no DG up...If he just snapshots my Meta then yeah I should wait until the last possible second for the most procs...Also for Immolation Aura is it better to wate for the big spellpower one or try to get in 2? I've been going for the big spellpower buff lately, after reading some guides.
    The doomguard snapshots your int, haste rating (not %, meaning it doesn't benefit from lust/hero, but it does benefit from ICM), mastery (maybe), spellpower. He does not snapshot your % damage from your meta. It doesn't matter how fast you get your doomguard out, it matters when you get him out. And that when is at the point where you have the best procs procced. It's not the last possible second, I usually find it within the first 15s of the fight that I have both PT/LW, and then I just wait to get as many WoU stacks before one falls off.

    For Immolation Aura, you pop it in the same manner as the doomguard. ICD trackers make it easier to know when the procs will proc again for the second/third/etc meta. Rule of thumb, if 20s of meta have gone by without a proc, go ahead and use immo aura so that you don't waste any of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    7. For MultiDotting as Demo should you do Immo/Corruption on everything first and then tab back for Agony and how long would it have to live for Agony to be worth it? So far I've just tried to put up all 3 and move on?
    For agony to be worth it, they'd have to live for it's full duration (most of it's damage is dealt at the end). Unless you're affliction, I usually don't find BoA worth it for myself. But always dot Immo/Corruption.

    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    8. So your saying just pop in when I think I'll get the full duration out of it? And on this fight you would use MWC I would guess to pop for that?
    Sort of. You pop it as late into the fight you can, as long as you get a full duration. Another reason for skipping BoA as demo, because if it's during a black phase then your doomguard will spend half the time running around to get in ranged of BoA targets. And no to using MWC for popping Doomguard. MWC is for meta. If it happens to be at the same time, then cool beans. I can't find the thread from long ago where it was stated how exactly mastery (as a stat) affects the doomguard, sorry. But the biggest things that affect the doomguard are int and haste rating.


    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    Lastly, I remember I have my snypase springs just macroed to shadowbolt but I notice I get a CD on it with other trinkets etc when used. Am I losing a ton of DPS on Doomguard by missing that one buff or in general is it fine? I think its just when I have MWC equipped and when I gearswap its usually fine and up when I need it but I notice when I run MWC its harder to line up...Also usually didn't precast a SB because of the CD of it.
    Whenever you use an on use trinket/gear piece/tinker, it puts all other on use trinkets/gear piece/tinkers on CD for 30s. You have two options: 1) Easier and raid friendly route: just deal with the fact your first tinker use is delayed. Yea it'll mean your doomguard isn't as maxed buff as possible since it would benefit better from that than MWC. It's not going to kill your dps, but it would mean the difference in 1-2 rank spots and those very close meter races. 2)More specific and raid angry: Have your raid do a 20s countdown. Pop MWC at the start of it, then towards the end of the count down pop meta and swap back into your regular gear and enter combat. This will mean your tinker CD will be ready within 10s of the fight and you can better buff your doomguard, and you still had MWC active for meta. But this is pretty specific, risk wasting MWC if someone yells NOT READY at the last moment, and your raid will be annoyed at waiting for a 20s countdown.

    Either route, you will cast SB as your first damaging spell for the SnF debuff. Dots do NOT auto update to it because blizz is dumb.

    Quote Originally Posted by rap87 View Post
    Much appreciated. I don't expect you to analyze these too much but maybe give a quick opinion. I felt tonight I did great on Morchok and with the shorter fight time I think you can see the gear swap gave me a nice lead. I didn't multi dot bosses were way to far off. I was also having to call the stomps crystals out and still did well. Also Warlord we had to go back to normal but me and the hunter were dead on and I ended the fight with like 25 secs left on meta . Thanks again. Going to fix gems/enchants and work on my rotation more. I think putting into practice these lil things and correcting misconceptions will get me to where I was as Affliction, I'd say without the pet swapping and If I could use the same gear between specs I'd love Demo a bit more heh.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-x6...?s=3086&e=3300

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-x6...?s=9573&e=9770

    *Also side note any idea what type heals should be going out on Warlord?*

    Again really appreciate this very thorough response I will definitely be putting this into practice. I love being a "Good" lock player and pushing my limits..

    *edit fixed boot enchant, fixed the socket bonus items to +mastery, and went to wow-reforge and redid my reforge for 1993 haste after that mastery reforges. Also put +50 in gloves. Going to see if I can get some more +50 at raid tonight.
    Not sure what you meant by the bolded section. If you're questioning why warlord gets healed, that's from his psychic drain move. It deals out 100k+ in front of him, and returns 10x the damage dealt as health. Hence why the tank faces him away from the raid. If it hits the tank, than that's just 1mil returned. If it hits the whole raid, the raid will live, but that's 10mil health he gets back.

    Morchok was pretty nice. You still should be able to at least put one set of dots up on Kohcrom when they first split, after that you just have to yell at your tanks until they finally learn that if that if they phase the bosses towards each other, they're more likely to put crystals in their facing direction, which keeps everyone in ranged. Just don't get too in ranged, or you'll take stomps from both

    As for your Heroic Warlord progression. Looks like you're struggling with deaths from the adds and your tank keeps getting hit by the void. As for the tank thing, you guys can't have the ranged group too close to the boss or the void will become "hitable" within range of the tank. On the same note, tank needs to be away of this too and pull him back. The two spacings I've done is having the boss sit on the claw spawn point from after the first black phase and for the rest of the fight, with the ranged group either in the middle of the water pool or about where you stack for normal, just facing the claw point.

    As for healing, is it not enough heals? Not enough damage to the adds? All but one, maybe two adds should be dead within 5s of the black phase ending, and the last one dying off at the latest when the ball forms. Boomkin needs to step it up on damage too. If the adds are dying like that, then it's more of a healer issue (though the adds can certainly die faster), and if that's the case it may be a strat issue with who's in range and when for heals. Also, is your priest going oom a lot?

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