In cataclysm, should druids get a Spell tanking form? Panzerkins Return!

[Elunedra]

Druids need a new land form to replace the ground mount and phase out mounts completely.

that i agree, maybe swift travel form something like a stag ;D

but i think it be cool to get new forms (0.01% chance it actualy going to happpent but still ^^)

like a new balance form something like a flying spel caster beast (that cannot attack while flying or fly while in combat ofc) something like a feiry dragon for night elfs or a chimera. and this form tobe based on aoe dmg like an aoe breath, a wing cleave and such things.

and then focus moonking form more on singletarget nuke so that balance druid got to adust thier forms to the situation. then blizz gets what they want by letting us shift more and balance will require a bit more skill.

as for ferals i still want tobe able to shapeshift into other animals that i encounter on my adventures and then taking over thier abilies ;D (ofc not on bosses but jsut normal animals for fun)

[FourofaKind]

Again, I love the elitism, but here's some news for you. This game is not just for the hardcore raiders. Blizzard would be not be as rich as they are if it were, and hence they have no interest in doing it that way.

How is it not elitist (albiet hypocritical as well) to assume that Bliz is point the game in "a direction which would not allow for caster tanks" (Correct me if I have misinterpreted your point). Which btw, is an incorrect statement in itself...

Hardcores are being locked into specs, this is sad but true, however moonkin aren't even involved in this lock down. If anything, moonkin tanks would be one of the more likely outcomes based on how druids have evolved from... Resto Healers (classic, if you did anything else, you were wasting your class, see t1-3 bonuses for details with VERY SITUATIONAL feral tanks) to Resto Healers + Feral Tanks <With slight instances of Moonkin dps> (BC T45&6 set bonuses sucked for Balance) to Quad spec Feral/Balance DPS Resto Healer and Feral Tank.

So
Classic
1 1/3 viable roles
BC
2 2/3 Viable roles
WOTLK
4 Viable roles
Cataclysm
5 1/3 Viable roles (5th role being caster tank, idk the 1/3 this time)

Again, just speculation

[Degrador]

How is it not elitist (albiet hypocritical as well) to assume that Bliz is point the game in "a direction which would not allow for caster tanks" (Correct me if I have misinterpreted your point). Which btw, is an incorrect statement in itself...

Uhh, elitism has nothing to do with what I think Blizzard's direction for the game is. Elitism is the assumption that the game's higher level raids should only be possible for those who are very good at the game (which is exactly what I wrote that comment in response to). Me believing that Blizzard intends to only have melee mainstream tanks is simply my interpretation of Blizzard's previous actions. It might be presumptuous, but not elitist.

Hardcores are being locked into specs, this is sad but true, however moonkin aren't even involved in this lock down. If anything, moonkin tanks would be one of the more likely outcomes based on how druids have evolved from... Resto Healers (classic, if you did anything else, you were wasting your class, see t1-3 bonuses for details with VERY SITUATIONAL feral tanks) to Resto Healers + Feral Tanks <With slight instances of Moonkin dps> (BC T45&6 set bonuses sucked for Balance) to Quad spec Feral/Balance DPS Resto Healer and Feral Tank.

It may be true that viable roles in raids have increased over WoW's history, but the specs from the talent trees have not. Balance has always been a caster DPS tree (even if not raid viable), feral has always been for bear (tank) & cat (melee dps) forms, resto has always been for healing. IMO this will never change.

[Alltat]

Again, just speculation

Speculation based on a statistically insignificant sample size; you can't really expect to get good numbers using that method across two expansions. Every push for druid form viability has been about taking something that was already there since release, and improving it without changing its basic idea or role. Cat form was designed from scratch to do melee DPS. Bear form was made for tanking. The balance tree has always been about spell DPS. The restoration tree was designed around healing. Nothing has been added that wasn't already intended since vanilla beta, at which point moonkin form did not even exist (though the balance tree did, so the idea of a DPS caster druid is nothing new).

So if you wanted, you could break it down to:
TBC
New roles added: 0
WotLK
New roles added: 0
Cataclysm
New roles added: 0

[Kryostasys]

If anything, moonkin tanks would be one of the more likely outcomes based on how druids have evolved from... Resto Healers (classic, if you did anything else, you were wasting your class, see t1-3 bonuses for details with VERY SITUATIONAL feral tanks)

I disagree with this entirely. Feral was quite viable in the latter half of vanilla. It required open minded guilds however. I was lucky enough to be one of the better geared ferals on server and was always in raids as dps (doing competant dps as well) or tanking (which a lot of healers favoured me doing over our 827582475 warriors). Set bonus' are a terrible thing to base this judgement on. While in a lot of cases people took teir gear over offset items, this was mainly down to easy itemisation, and generally a lack of understanding of gearing back in the day compared to now. Offset items made "offspecs" very, very compentant back in vanilla. Pretty much every bit of offset AQ leather is a testament to that.

[arel00]

I disagree with this entirely. Feral was quite viable in the latter half of vanilla. It required open minded guilds however. I was lucky enough to be one of the better geared ferals on server and was always in raids as dps (doing competant dps as well) or tanking (which a lot of healers favoured me doing over our 827582475 warriors). Set bonus' are a terrible thing to base this judgement on. While in a lot of cases people took teir gear over offset items, this was mainly down to easy itemisation, and generally a lack of understanding of gearing back in the day compared to now. Offset items made "offspecs" very, very compentant back in vanilla. Pretty much every bit of offset AQ leather is a testament to that.

QFT.

It was a ficking nightmare to grab the right items, since itemization was lacking (especially pre-AQ) but the items were there if you knew where to look for them. Also, vanilla Patchwerk + being armor capped = profit.

[Nirual]

I wouldn't mind being able to tank as balance but I feel it won't really help with the lack of tanks for heroics.
Looking at the feral tree this would probably bloat up the balance tree aswell so you can't tank and dps equally well and stay competitive. Unless you dualspec in balance.

I disagree with this entirely. Feral was quite viable in the latter half of vanilla. It required open minded guilds however.

QTF. Some people are so closeminded that I'd still be getting flak for tanking as feral, much more for dps, in late TBC. Often before the run even started because they'd see me in my kitty gear/form and tell me I can't tank with such low hitpoints. No shit sherlock.

[Chamass]

The only thing blizzard needs to do to make panzerkin possible again, is give druids, like paladins a aura buff that decides if u go for the 70% of damage threat or the 190% version (dont kill me for numbers, top of my head, but u know the deal) like Righteous fury.

With a nice spec, a panzerkin with about 200% of its current threat would be a very decent heroics tank just cause of the massive hp and armor.. its not like u actually NEED to block/dodge/parry in heroics xD look at all the stam-stackers who get thru just fine xD

[FourofaKind]

With a nice spec, a panzerkin with about 200% of its current threat would be a very decent heroics tank just cause of the massive hp and armor.. its not like u actually NEED to block/dodge/parry in heroics xD look at all the stam-stackers who get thru just fine xD

Massive HP?
We dont get +stam in moonkin form like bears do, just +armor.

A threat producing talent would be one of the keys to allowing a Balance Tank in wow but I think that shortgrips the longterm concept of the OP and I know of my own points/examples.

The argument of 0 role increases by Alltat is very solid, if they are to continue with this mind set, I will be a bit disappointed to be honest.

All I can really say about this topic in the long run is

I like how your all riding Fourofakind for imagining the possibilities even though he is the only 1 with an open mind, and has apparently imagined what is possible... This thread inst meant to FORCE BLIZZ to make a furblog spell tank form. im just saying it would be a cool idea, and what four is just saying... is that they might make this a "reality" since they are in fact REMAKING, and in a way redesigning the game...

^This

[Alltat]

Often before the run even started because they'd see me in my kitty gear/form and tell me I can't tank with such low hitpoints. No shit sherlock.

People are idiots, and you'll get the same with any spec. I've had groups freak out when I joined as a healer, saying I didn't have nearly enough mana to handle the instance... when I was using my feral offspec in full feral gear. Zero intellect, so go figure.

[DrgnDancer]

People are idiots, and you'll get the same with any spec. I've had groups freak out when I joined as a healer, saying I didn't have nearly enough mana to handle the instance... when I was using my feral offspec in full feral gear. Zero intellect, so go figure.

I got that just recently.

"Sure, I'll heal your PuG"
"OMG, you only have 5000 Mana! WTF!"
"Um, perhaps you've heard of this brilliant (not so) new concept of dual spec?"
"Oh, sorry... Some people might try to heal that way."

I mean seriously, like I was going to try to heal his heroic group with 5K mana and 150 HPT rejuvs. if he actually has had people try to do such a thing, I feel sorry for him, but trust me to know at least the most basic mechanic of my class at 80.

[Zuldain]

Good idea. IMO what druids really need is a 5th viable spec. The class has always been lacking in versatility.

[Cassini]

Good idea. IMO what druids really need is a 5th viable spec. The class has always been lacking in versatility.

hahaha, my thoughts exactly.

feral tanking damage
feral tanking mitigation
feral dps pve
feral dps pvp
resto pve
resto pvp
moonkin pve
moonkin pvp

yeah, what they definitely need is another possible spec. Is the OP on crack?!