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  1. #1

    Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    I've seen several threads reference the combination of Div Shield & Div Sac as not working the way I thought it did. My understanding of this combo is that while Shielded, I can Div Sac and take 40% (specced) of all nearby raid member damage for the duration of the Shield since I never hit the 150% of my health limit.

    Other users here have said it doesn't work this way. They say that even though the shield is up and I don't take damage, it still stops working after 150% of my health has been absorbed.

    I've never seen any patch notes or blue threads that clearly state how this combination works. Can anyone demonstrate absolutely one way or the other? I don't think this ability is really worth the talent points if the absorb actually stops at 150% with shield up.
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  2. #2

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by ghola
    I've seen several threads reference the combination of Div Shield & Div Sac as not working the way I thought it did. My understanding of this combo is that while Shielded, I can Div Sac and take 40% (specced) of all nearby raid member damage for the duration of the Shield since I never hit the 150% of my health limit.

    Other users here have said it doesn't work this way. They say that even though the shield is up and I don't take damage, it still stops working after 150% of my health has been absorbed.

    I've never seen any patch notes or blue threads that clearly state how this combination works. Can anyone demonstrate absolutely one way or the other? I don't think this ability is really worth the talent points if the absorb actually stops at 150% with shield up.
    The tooltip clearly states how the spell works. The confusion is that it used to be broken and would absorb damage the whole time it was active so long as you were bubbled. This was stealth-fixed in 3.2. While I don't have a Blizzard source for it, there have been plenty of parses done to show this on Elitist Jerks and other theory-crafting sites.

  3. #3
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    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/n...=11684&e=12020

    If it's broken or been hotfixed, please explain why in 14 seconds (2 uses, 1 without bubble at the end to make sure the raid doesnt die from infernals) it absorbed almost 200k.

    The tooltip is wrong, or it is still broken. I'd personally like to know if this is functioning the way its meant to, or if its bugged. If it's bugged, i'd like to not get reliant on this spec if it'll get fixed.

  4. #4

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by tbk2009
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/n...=11684&e=12020

    If it's broken or been hotfixed, please explain why in 14 seconds (2 uses, 1 without bubble at the end to make sure the raid doesnt die from infernals) it absorbed almost 200k.

    The tooltip is wrong, or it is still broken. I'd personally like to know if this is functioning the way its meant to, or if its bugged. If it's bugged, i'd like to not get reliant on this spec if it'll get fixed.
    The real way to explain this is "how was it up for 14secs in 2 uses when it's a 10sec duration". if by that we mean a full 10sec for having it while bubbled and then 4 sec another time by not having it bubbled but stopping at 4secs cus it reached the 150% mark.


    if that's the case then Blizzard put the 150% limit so that people could use it without bubbling as long as they got healed otherwise they'd keep taking damage for the full 10sec and they'd definitely die. so THAT was the intention of the change

  5. #5

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    I believe you're caught up in the tooltip wording.

    Divine Sacrifice will continue to transfer 30%, 35%, or 40% (depending on spec) of nearby raid damage to the paladin until 150% of that paladin's hp is reached through incoming raid damage.

    This means that when Divine Shield is up, there is no way to reach that 150% hp/damage marker; in which case the Divine Sacrifice ability will last the full 10 seconds.

  6. #6
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    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumidar
    The real way to explain this is "how was it up for 14secs in 2 uses when it's a 10sec duration". if by that we mean a full 10sec for having it while bubbled and then 4 sec another time by not having it bubbled but stopping at 4secs cus it reached the 150% mark.


    if that's the case then Blizzard put the 150% limit so that people could use it without bubbling as long as they got healed otherwise they'd keep taking damage for the full 10sec and they'd definitely die. so THAT was the intention of the change
    Hey buddy, read my post kay? I explained i used it without bubble the second time in the last 10 seconds of the fight because infernals were up and we decided to burn the boss.

    Schiwing, Re-read the Tooltip please.

    "30% of all damage taken by party or raid members within 30 yards is redirected to the Paladin (up to a maximum of 150% of the Paladin's health). Lasts 10 sec."

    It specifically implies it will only redirect up to a maximum of 150% of the paladin's health. It no where describes it will only DAMAGE the paladin to a max of 150% of his/her health. It REDIRECTS the damage up to the maximum. Whether or not its resisted, absorbed, or received should not matter.

  7. #7
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    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by tbk2009
    Hey buddy, read my post kay? I explained i used it without bubble the second time in the last 10 seconds of the fight because infernals were up and we decided to burn the boss.

    Schiwing, Re-read the Tooltip please.

    "30% of all damage taken by party or raid members within 30 yards is redirected to the Paladin (up to a maximum of 150% of the Paladin's health). Lasts 10 sec."

    It specifically implies it will only redirect up to a maximum of 150% of the paladin's health. It no where describes it will only DAMAGE the paladin to a max of 150% of his/her health. It REDIRECTS the damage up to the maximum. Whether or not its resisted, absorbed, or received should not matter.
    From my assumption, the game would read the damage in the form of damage taken, much like they do for the achievement "Going Down?" does.

    Since the damage is negated and removed from the combat table completely, it takes off 0 damage off the 150% max DPS counter (hence all the -0s that fly across your screen).

  8. #8

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    the 150% is 150% of you max hp at the time of use, and its the MAXIMUM amount of dmg you can have redirected to you. so if you have 40k health when you use it it will redirect 30/35/40 % of all dmg taken by nearby raid members to you and the effect will stop after either a) 10 seconds or b) 100k dmg has been redirected in total.

    not sure if it can be anymore clear but thats about as clear as I can make it. also there WAS a bug just like the one with Hand of Sacrifice where they had to fix it. this one I thought was fixed at the same time but maybe not.

  9. #9

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by Alenko
    the 150% is 150% of you max hp at the time of use, and its the MAXIMUM amount of dmg you can have redirected to you. so if you have 40k health when you use it it will redirect 30/35/40 % of all dmg taken by nearby raid members to you and the effect will stop after either a) 10 seconds or b) 100k dmg has been redirected in total.

    not sure if it can be anymore clear but thats about as clear as I can make it. also there WAS a bug just like the one with Hand of Sacrifice where they had to fix it. this one I thought was fixed at the same time but maybe not.
    150% of 40k isnt 100k :P
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  10. #10

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by friggo
    150% of 40k isnt 100k :P
    damit wrong mechanic in mind when I made that post, but the concept is what matters (was thinking of something along the lines of a 150% increase which would make it 100k)

  11. #11

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    I'd wager that when Divine Shield is active you're technically taking 0 damage per incoming damage so thus won't add to the 150% since in most circumstances I've seen the duration run out before it faded prematurely due to damage intake. Granted, I've rarely used Divine Sacrifice outside of 5-mans without Divine shield.

    Though, I could be wrong and just don't pay that much attention, but meh. It's still useful no matter the formula.
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  12. #12

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    I have a lot of experience with this, and here's what I've come up with as to how Dsac and Divine Shield work together. No, I don't have any numbers to prove it, but I've spent some time carefully observing this so take it for what it's worth.

    What other people have said is correct, it used to be bugged so when Divine Shield was up, it would absorb damage far past 150% of your max HP - basically infinite amounts of damage as long as Divine Shield was up. They did fix this, and under most circumstances it will only absorb the correct amount.

    However, if the raid is taking damage from an ability that hits everyone at the same time, I believe it bugs out, and only counts as an absorb from one person, instead of say 24 people. Some examples would be the pulsing AOE damage from Twin Val'kyrs, the Tympanic Tantrum from XT(every time I pop DS on tantrums it lasts the full duration of the spell... and that's much more than 150% of my HP), the Ground Tremor from Freya, or even(and this is hilarious when you do this) Gluth's Decimate.

    So yes, under certain circumstances your Divine Sacrifice will absorb much more than the 150% of your HP that it says on the tooltip.

  13. #13

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by tjanson
    I have a lot of experience with this, and here's what I've come up with as to how Dsac and Divine Shield work together. No, I don't have any numbers to prove it, but I've spent some time carefully observing this so take it for what it's worth.

    What other people have said is correct, it used to be bugged so when Divine Shield was up, it would absorb damage far past 150% of your max HP - basically infinite amounts of damage as long as Divine Shield was up. They did fix this, and under most circumstances it will only absorb the correct amount.

    However, if the raid is taking damage from an ability that hits everyone at the same time, I believe it bugs out, and only counts as an absorb from one person, instead of say 24 people. Some examples would be the pulsing AOE damage from Twin Val'kyrs, the Tympanic Tantrum from XT(every time I pop DS on tantrums it lasts the full duration of the spell... and that's much more than 150% of my HP), the Ground Tremor from Freya, or even(and this is hilarious when you do this) Gluth's Decimate.

    So yes, under certain circumstances your Divine Sacrifice will absorb much more than the 150% of your HP that it says on the tooltip.
    I would agree with this. It's supposed to take 150% of the paladin's health (so 34,500 absorption for a 23,000HP holy paladin). But it is still buggy in some situations despite the partial fix.

    Another possible consideration is that the combat log reporting is actually what's buggy and that the ability, in reality, is working as intended. If the combat log is just reporting incorrect values, parses would obviously be incorrect as well.

    After doing 25-man Hodir last night, I can guarantee it's not helping as much during frozen blows as it use to.

  14. #14
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    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Use recount and select friendly fire, then use the ability during xt hardmode tantrum or flame jets on ignis. You can see it transfers way more than the 34000 it should transfer. (Don't count lightbombs on xt tho)

    Either way, its broken (by the tooltips standards). It in fact should transfer 150% of your max health (23k example, 34.5k effective). Whether or not you absorb it should not be a factor.

  15. #15

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Have you considered the possibility that it transferes 150% of your maximum health, not in total, but from each member? Just saying...
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  16. #16

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by tjanson
    I have a lot of experience with this, and here's what I've come up with as to how Dsac and Divine Shield work together. No, I don't have any numbers to prove it, but I've spent some time carefully observing this so take it for what it's worth.

    What other people have said is correct, it used to be bugged so when Divine Shield was up, it would absorb damage far past 150% of your max HP - basically infinite amounts of damage as long as Divine Shield was up. They did fix this, and under most circumstances it will only absorb the correct amount.

    However, if the raid is taking damage from an ability that hits everyone at the same time, I believe it bugs out, and only counts as an absorb from one person, instead of say 24 people. Some examples would be the pulsing AOE damage from Twin Val'kyrs, the Tympanic Tantrum from XT(every time I pop DS on tantrums it lasts the full duration of the spell... and that's much more than 150% of my HP), the Ground Tremor from Freya, or even(and this is hilarious when you do this) Gluth's Decimate.

    So yes, under certain circumstances your Divine Sacrifice will absorb much more than the 150% of your HP that it says on the tooltip.
    this. it's been tested numerous times and the most logical explanation was that if a lot of damage happens in an instant, the combat log just can't keep up.

    /thread.
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  17. #17
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    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascal
    this. it's been tested numerous times and the most logical explanation was that if a lot of damage happens in an instant, the combat log just can't keep up.

    /thread.
    False. Last night on firefighter after heroic twins, i took burst damage the whole 10 seconds, WAY more than 150% of my health, it was not that the combat log couldnt keep up.

  18. #18
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    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    With bubble it should be on for the full duration.
    As i see it, it seems like it's programmed to transer the damage, and then count how much you take. So with bubble, even though it transfers damage, it'll just add 0's and thus never reaching the 150% mark.

  19. #19

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    one of our XT HM still great absorption 375k damage absorbed during tantrum.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/P...=11098&e=11732

  20. #20

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by Zikron
    Have you considered the possibility that it transferes 150% of your maximum health, not in total, but from each member? Just saying...
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