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  1. #21

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by Fancyfeast
    A CHALLENGER APPEARS
    If that's the case, the tooltip REALLY needs to be updated.

  2. #22

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by tbk2009
    False. Last night on firefighter after heroic twins, i took burst damage the whole 10 seconds, WAY more than 150% of my health, it was not that the combat log couldnt keep up.
    sorry, but i'm gonna have to pull out the famous "screenshot or it didn't happen" :-\


    i could be wrong but my information comes from elitist jerks, which i find to be one of the more reliable sources on the interwebz. and unless i missed something, it's still pretty accurate. i'd have to look through a lot of pages to find it unless you take my word for it.
    And Christ said to his disciples, "I shall grant you eternal Salvation!"
    The disciples fell to their knees and replied, "Give us kings n00b!".

  3. #23

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Sure i'll post the logs as soon as the guild uploads them (was last night)

    Sigh. Here is different example.

    go to http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/n...=11684&e=12020

    Under query builder, click remove for show all events.

    Now click add query, leave all boxes unchecked. Go to the Spell line and type in Divine Sacrifice

    now click save. Now click Run. Divine Sacrifice was active the whole 10 seconds, and if you scroll to the bottom, to view my second usage at the end of the fight (used without bubble), it only absorbed 15500 dmg. Which leaves the other 172000 absorbed from the first one with the bubble.

  4. #24
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    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascal
    sorry, but i'm gonna have to pull out the famous "screenshot or it didn't happen" :-\


    i could be wrong but my information comes from elitist jerks, which i find to be one of the more reliable sources on the interwebz. and unless i missed something, it's still pretty accurate. i'd have to look through a lot of pages to find it unless you take my word for it.
    ptr test < live test

    EJ arent gods btw ive seen a few of their calculation being false or misinterpreted

    with Abyssal shatter being hotfixed ingame, what else blizz could have forgot to add with 3.2?

  5. #25

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    I'm sorry but after the first page this shouldn't even be an argument anymore.

    The tooltip is correct. It COULD be elaborated on, but it still isn't wrong. Used in conjuction with the tooltip for Divine Shield makes it perfectly explanatory. As soon as they change the tooltip to properly describe how that ability correlates with others, people will complain up and down about how it's so ridiculous for Blizzard to have a tooltip for a spell that is 9 paragraphs long.

    As MANY people have said before, when you get all those "-0 (Absorbed)" numbers spamming your screen when you use both these abilities, you are not adding any damage towards that 150%HP cap. It's as simple as that, and this is what the tooltip implies, which is exactly what a tooltip is supposed to do.

    It's also implied by the tooltips for Divine Protection and Divine Sacrifice that the same amount of damage unmitigated or unabsorbed by a shield would potentially take twice as long to reach that 150%HP cap when Divine Protection is used as well.

    Should the tooltip for Holy Light describe how a heal would work with Avenging Wrath, but then also go into detail about how that new 120% heal would be reduced when the target is affected with Mortal Strike?

    The tooltip is fine. Your understanding of game mechanics is what is lacking.


  6. #26

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by ghola
    I've seen several threads reference the combination of Div Shield & Div Sac as not working the way I thought it did. My understanding of this combo is that while Shielded, I can Div Sac and take 40% (specced) of all nearby raid member damage for the duration of the Shield since I never hit the 150% of my health limit.

    Other users here have said it doesn't work this way. They say that even though the shield is up and I don't take damage, it still stops working after 150% of my health has been absorbed.

    I've never seen any patch notes or blue threads that clearly state how this combination works. Can anyone demonstrate absolutely one way or the other? I don't think this ability is really worth the talent points if the absorb actually stops at 150% with shield up.
    Divine shield + Divine sacrifice works like a charm... just pop out Divine shield first and its all good.

  7. #27

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by Nienniora
    ptr test < live test

    EJ arent gods btw ive seen a few of their calculation being false or misinterpreted

    with Abyssal shatter being hotfixed ingame, what else blizz could have forgot to add with 3.2?
    of course they aren't. still, most of the time they're fairly accurate. and if DiSanc was fixed in 3.2.2 chances are good that we'd have heard something about it by now.

    i've read reports were DiSanc broke while DS was active which, according to the DiSanc-can't-brake-while-DS-is-active-rule, should not be possible. i'll try to find a report confirming this, so take this with a grain of salt for now.

    before this thread derails and someone starts flaming me for not knowing what the hell i'm talking about:
    i'm simply repeating what i read from reliable( most of the time) sources. i'd love to find out the truth about DS+DiSanc aswell but unfortunatly, i can't test for myself right now, so i have to rely on other paladin's logs and statements.
    And Christ said to his disciples, "I shall grant you eternal Salvation!"
    The disciples fell to their knees and replied, "Give us kings n00b!".

  8. #28

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by tjanson
    However, if the raid is taking damage from an ability that hits everyone at the same time, I believe it bugs out
    This. It's been shown to work this way 5820573204 times on EJ. And yes, it still works this way on live.

    Basically the simultaneous damage registers on 24 non-bubble'd raid members at once and surpasses the 150% HP restriction immediately. The 40% absorb then continues to be in effect for the entire duration of DS/DS.

  9. #29

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by Liquid_Beaver
    I'm sorry but after the first page this shouldn't even be an argument anymore.

    The tooltip is correct. It COULD be elaborated on, but it still isn't wrong. Used in conjuction with the tooltip for Divine Shield makes it perfectly explanatory. As soon as they change the tooltip to properly describe how that ability correlates with others, people will complain up and down about how it's so ridiculous for Blizzard to have a tooltip for a spell that is 9 paragraphs long.

    As MANY people have said before, when you get all those "-0 (Absorbed)" numbers spamming your screen when you use both these abilities, you are not adding any damage towards that 150%HP cap. It's as simple as that, and this is what the tooltip implies, which is exactly what a tooltip is supposed to do.

    It's also implied by the tooltips for Divine Protection and Divine Sacrifice that the same amount of damage unmitigated or unabsorbed by a shield would potentially take twice as long to reach that 150%HP cap when Divine Protection is used as well.

    Should the tooltip for Holy Light describe how a heal would work with Avenging Wrath, but then also go into detail about how that new 120% heal would be reduced when the target is affected with Mortal Strike?

    The tooltip is fine. Your understanding of game mechanics is what is lacking.
    As i've stated before, the tooltip IMPLIES that it only transfers damage up to 150% of the persons max health onto them. It doesn't say damages the paladin up to 150%, therefore absorbs would negate it.

    This is all my opinion vs your opinion. Neither is 100% right. Don't be a jackass and assume my understanding of the mechanics is lacking.

    Bilbo, so what your saying is that 34k of dmg is absorbed in the first .2 seconds and its causing it to error out? Seems odd because in my example (log included) i took 172k over the full 10 seconds, which averages out to about 17k per second. I can't find anything in my logs that indicated 34k dmg is taken that fast. Please provide evidence of this.

  10. #30

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    It seems to me at least that when the raid takes damage from a single ability all at once, like a tantrum tick or lifespark aoe sacrifice only counts one tick of that ability towards the 150% that is why you see it lasting almost the entire duration.

    So instead of seeing 4kx24 dmg towards the cap it only sees 4k from one tantrum tick.

    Even only taking the minimum 150% dmg its still a good 30k+ dmg absorb for any pally and that doesnt seem like a bad amount for a single talent point. I just wish ret didnt have to put 5 pts into holy and at least 55 into ret now, i loved my 0/17/54 build.

  11. #31

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by tbk2009
    Hey buddy, read my post kay? I explained i used it without bubble the second time in the last 10 seconds of the fight because infernals were up and we decided to burn the boss.
    my post was to clarify what you said to let other people understand better and in no way was questioning what you said... :

  12. #32

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by bolivar
    The tooltip clearly states how the spell works. The confusion is that it used to be broken and would absorb damage the whole time it was active so long as you were bubbled. This was stealth-fixed in 3.2. While I don't have a Blizzard source for it, there have been plenty of parses done to show this on Elitist Jerks and other theory-crafting sites.
    This ^. Basically you pop DS+Bubble (Bubble Wall). Lets say you have 30k HP. It's not going to absorb 40% of the raid damage for 10 seconds. It will absorb 120k Damage then stop.

    Think about it this way.

    If you pop DS without a bubble, you're health will drop. Lets say 10k at a time. So the healers are bombing you with heals. They end up healing 120k damage on you (I.E Recount or Skada shows you as 120,000 damage taken). Now lets say you have 7 seconds left on DS. It's not going to keep sbsorbing damage. Why would it keep absorbing damage when you no longer take any?

    It's working correctly and this was a well known change in 3.2 I'm surprised people are waiting until nearly 3.3 to bring this up. There's a reason ret paladins spec into Aura Mastery Now. Double FrR, AM+Conc for Faction Champs, Yogg, Etc. FrR + AM for Frozen blows, etc.

    If you have any questions I'd be more than happy to answer them.

    Quote Originally Posted by schiwing
    I believe you're caught up in the tooltip wording.

    Divine Sacrifice will continue to transfer 30%, 35%, or 40% (depending on spec) of nearby raid damage to the paladin until 150% of that paladin's hp is reached through incoming raid damage.

    This means that when Divine Shield is up, there is no way to reach that 150% hp/damage marker; in which case the Divine Sacrifice ability will last the full 10 seconds.
    This is false. You still take the damage, it just gets absorbed by Divine Shield. You don't "not take damage" you get 100% absorption or immunity.

    Quote Originally Posted by tbk2009

    It specifically implies it will only redirect up to a maximum of 150% of the paladin's health. It no where describes it will only DAMAGE the paladin to a max of 150% of his/her health. It REDIRECTS the damage up to the maximum. Whether or not its resisted, absorbed, or received should not matter.
    This is also true. ^

    Do I give you Ret Dreams?
    "It's your $14.95 a month, but when you are in a raid, you are wasting our $358.80."

  13. #33

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Is it possible this is down to the order in which the spells are cast?

    ie. cast DShield first then DSac your DSac is uncapped, but in the other order it's capped?

    This would make sense if both effects are trying to process the incoming damage and only one can get it - the one that was in place first should 'win'.


  14. #34

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by Azyoulike
    Is it possible this is down to the order in which the spells are cast?

    ie. cast DShield first then DSac your DSac is uncapped, but in the other order it's capped?

    This would make sense if both effects are trying to process the incoming damage and only one can get it - the one that was in place first should 'win'.

    You may be on to something with this. Personally i ALWAYS pop bubble first (12 second duration vs 10 second on DiSac), and have never had it break early. I will try it the other way around sometime. Anyone else have experience or data on this?

    Sol Garrosh, where are you getting your numbers? If you have 30k HP, it will only absorb up to 45k (150% of 30k), not 120k.

  15. #35

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by tbk2009
    You may be on to something with this. Personally i ALWAYS pop bubble first (12 second duration vs 10 second on DiSac), and have never had it break early. I will try it the other way around sometime. Anyone else have experience or data on this?

    Sol Garrosh, where are you getting your numbers? If you have 30k HP, it will only absorb up to 45k (150% of 30k), not 120k.
    Yeah forgive my bad math early in the morning. For whatever reason I did 250% -_-;; lol

    And no, all parses show, and if you did your own you would see as well, the order dosent matter, it's capped off once it absorbs 150% of the paladins health as damage.

    Do I give you Ret Dreams?
    "It's your $14.95 a month, but when you are in a raid, you are wasting our $358.80."

  16. #36

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol Garrosh
    Yeah forgive my bad math early in the morning. For whatever reason I did 250% -_-;; lol

    And no, all parses show, and if you did your own you would see as well, the order dosent matter, it's capped off once it absorbs 150% of the paladins health as damage.
    Wrong.

    There's recent logs around where you can clearly see it absorbs 170.000-300.000 damage for its duration. This implies that there are certain conditions in which Dsanc doesnt cap at 150% of the paladins HP pool.

  17. #37

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by Mew
    Wrong.

    There's recent logs around where you can clearly see it absorbs 170.000-300.000 damage for its duration. This implies that there are certain conditions in which Dsanc doesnt cap at 150% of the paladins HP pool.
    Link or this is a lie.

    Do I give you Ret Dreams?
    "It's your $14.95 a month, but when you are in a raid, you are wasting our $358.80."

  18. #38

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    There is 2 links in this thread alone buddy, you just discredited yourself from this topic because you clearly can't read the whole thing before posting something you certainly know nothing about.

  19. #39

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol Garrosh
    Link or this is a lie.
    translation : "tl;dr"

  20. #40

    Re: Divine Shield + Divine Sac

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowulf
    translation : "tl;dr"
    This ^

    Do I give you Ret Dreams?
    "It's your $14.95 a month, but when you are in a raid, you are wasting our $358.80."

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