is there a such thing as TOO much mana?

[bolivar]

To be honest, around 32,000 unbuffed mana, it's probably time to look at your haste. If you're not haste softcapped, you'll generally get more out of stacking haste/crit or haste/MP5.

The reason for haste/MP5 is to increase your overall HPS and keep you from using Divine Plea as often. This is really only targeted at guys running ToC hardmodes in 258 level gear at this point. Most of the current stuff from Elitist Jerks is talking around 32-33K unbuffed mana being enough to start gemming for other things.

[Nichpish]

35k mana unbuff on my shammy when ulduar was "new" : : :P

[darthceltic]

why the f....

would a shammy want 35k mana? they are all about throughput.

sp, crit, haste

[nwo]

35k mana unbuff on my shammy when ulduar was "new" : : :P

bad troll is bad?

anyways, ill keep it short and sweet: for a pally, there is no such thing as too much mana because int is still the best stat for a holy pally.

[darthceltic]

now think of this, more mana more mana cost.... so if you have it cool if you are going to stack it ehh not so cool

hey look, its the guy that thinks more mana makes it cost more. i'll quote since you are too dumb or lazy to go back and look.

[darthceltic]

how is it more mana cost? Spells are based on your base mana not your maximum mana so no matter what your mana pool is, the spell cost remains the same.

oh snap, here's u quoting the guy...

[rambam]

going beyond 676 haste is making your flash of light equalling GCD. You really don't need to gem it to get to that level. Keep stacking Intellect no matter what is what I think.

haste may theoretically soft cap at that point for Flash of light, but it is still beneficial, it will slowly edge the spell towards being "instant" although never getting there

this allows you to respond better to spike damage, although not good when chain casting

also, haste can attempt to compensate for latency

additionally for holy light, if your lights grace drops off, there is occasionally an un-easy/un-comfortably long holy light, which during fights with a lot of spike damage can be deadly.

that said though, haste is like intel, it isn't the be all end all of stats for a holy paladin

while you will find haste on gear with MP5, it is good to understand that haste doesn't work well with mp5, because mp5 is static regeneration, where as crit scales with the number of spells you cast, and although crit doesn't really count as regeneration, more spell cost reduction, this should be considered when gearing.

[thoukaia]

while you will find haste on gear with MP5, it is good to understand that haste doesn't work well with mp5, because mp5 is static regeneration, where as crit scales with the number of spells you cast...

wrong. crit is static aswell, but as a percentage of the mana you use, while mp5 is a certain mana return regardless of the amount of mana being used. think of it like this:

Within 60 seconds you cast 30 spells that heal for 20k and cost 1000 mana each. assuming a 50% crit chance, Illumination will return 150 mana back per spell for a total of 4500 mana. Mana lost: 30.000-4500= 25500. (over)Healing done: 600k. HPM: 600k/25500=23.52

Within 60 seconds you cast 20 spells that heal for 20k and cost 1000 mana each. assuming a 50% crit chance, Illumination will return 150 mana back per spell for a total of 3000 mana. Mana lost: 20.000-3000=17000. (over)Healing done: 400k. HPM: 400k/17000=23.52

TLDR crit will return more mana back through Illumination when you're spamming heals, but when doing that you'll spend more mana overall. the HPS needed depends on the fight, but the HPM remain the same regardless of haste/number of casts/overall mana. So yea crit is static mana regen like mp5

[Raiss]

also, haste can attempt to compensate for latency

I dare say it's just the opposite. I never play with less than 250 ms, normaly having 300ms in a good day. So, if I lag 0,3 each GCD, I can say that i don't need haste for the 0,3 , so a laged soft haste cap would be lower.

[Firecrest]

haste may theoretically soft cap at that point for Flash of light, but it is still beneficial, it will slowly edge the spell towards being "instant" although never getting there

this allows you to respond better to spike damage, although not good when chain casting

also, haste can attempt to compensate for latency

additionally for holy light, if your lights grace drops off, there is occasionally an un-easy/un-comfortably long holy light, which during fights with a lot of spike damage can be deadly.

that said though, haste is like intel, it isn't the be all end all of stats for a holy paladin

while you will find haste on gear with MP5, it is good to understand that haste doesn't work well with mp5, because mp5 is static regeneration, where as crit scales with the number of spells you cast, and although crit doesn't really count as regeneration, more spell cost reduction, this should be considered when gearing.

Wow. So much wrong in here, I don't even know where to begin...

[darthceltic]

yeah, i just left it at that, cuz it confused me just trying to read it.

[meroko]

Assume you use Divine Plea every minute which in hard modes you mostly do. (unless it's the start of a fight or you manage to keep yourself within a reasonable mana pool)..

Here is what you earn if you time Divine Plea with Greatness (with Power Auras this is extremely easy to do)

At 37,000 raid buffed (we'll use my mana pool as an example) you earn the 25% from Divine Plea plus an additional 25% from greatness.

That means every minute if needed you can earn 50% total mana back versus the standard 25%. I ran this test without a replenishment (which will give even more) in all the full buffs for int. Gift, AI, and Guru's Elixir/Mighty Thoughts

Now do the math. 25% of 37,000 is 9,250 mana every minute. Divide that by 12 you get ~771 mp5 from one trinket alone. Please direct me to a trinket that comes close to this regen?

I rest my case.

/thread

[Zenaur]

At 37,000 raid buffed (we'll use my mana pool as an example) you earn the 25% from Divine Plea plus an additional 25% from greatness.

That means every minute if needed you can earn 50% total mana back versus the standard 25%.

woah.... wait a second here.... WTF are you on? you have a 37k mana pool and a single greatness proc equals out to being an equal and additional 25% of your total mana pool?

Correct me if im wrong but i was under the assumption that greatness gave a static 300int (aka 300int*15mana/int = 4500 mana).... assuming fully buffed you do have 37k mana 4500 mana would only be 12% of your overall mana pool. even if you do manage to hit greatness on EXACTLY every min so that you can plea EXACTLY when it is proced then you receive only 1125 mana from it (4500*.25=1125) so basically you are now getting 93MP5 (1125/12=93.75) from being able to DP on every proc. not this crazy 771 you are claiming.

Now do the math.

srsly how do you fail at math that much?

I rest my case.

/now STFU and GTFO of this thread if you dont know what the hell you are talking about




EDIT: oh yeah..... and this is from EJ -- the discrepancy int eh numbers from mine is that they are including the 90int that you get all the time and i was just talking about the proc rate

"If you use Divine Plea only during the trinkets uptime you will gain an extra 1706.25 mana more than if you did not have the trinket equipped. This averages out to around 94.79 mp/5 as you will only be able to use divine plea once every 90 seconds (due to the trinket cooldown not coinciding with DP's cooldown).

If you use Divine Plea whenever it is up it will only coincide with the trinket cooldown every 3 minutes, greatly diminishing the usefulness of the trinket."

[darthceltic]

he is a failadin, no point in trying, cuz this guy will always think the world is flat and 2 plus 2 is 7. You cant fix stupid.

[Firecrest]

At 37,000 raid buffed (we'll use my mana pool as an example) you earn the 25% from Divine Plea plus an additional 25% from greatness.

That means every minute if needed you can earn 50% total mana back versus the standard 25%.

Wow. I normally would assume bad troll is bad, but I honestly believe you actually think this load of garbage is true. I feel sorry for you and for whatever guild is carrying you through what little content you manage to experience.

What you're saying here is that you double your Plea output with the trinket proc up. In order for that to be the case, you would have to be doubling your mana pool while this Super Plea is running. If the 300 Int given by this trinket's proc doubles your mana pool, you've got some serious issues.

[darthceltic]

i think i just found out why this guy thinks he's elitist and in a good guild. his guild is 2nd on his server, and has never downed a boss in heroic 25 toc. the top guild has downed 2 bosses.

elite.

[Zenaur]

i know but what is beginning to piss me off is that he is showing up in every damn forum post that somehow brings up trinkets or plea in any which way and is telling all the people coming here for real advise that we are all idiots and how imba he is cuz he can use his greatness and get "771MP5" out of a trinket that is really only worth like 94MP5.

the sad part is that some people are actually beginning to follow him and say we are just idiots cuz we care more about ilv then a good trinket.... i sware i really didnt think stupidity could be this contagious.

[Grunthunter]

no

[Shawaam]

I'd say: If you can go a full fight without going oom nor using any mana replenish cooldowns, you got too much mana. :P

THOUGH, that haven't happened yet, so stack on!