Massive 5 mans, or Winged 5 mans. What did you enjoy more?

[Harry Botter]

This is how I feel. I hate having the only item I need on the last boss, and having to go through all the way to it. Shorter is better for me.

AKA im lazy and want free gear. inc 50k tells about me being a jack ass and a troll.

[Phailzôr]

AKA im lazy and want free gear. inc 50k tells about me being a jack ass and a troll.

+1 that is so true. People like him fuel my rage. "I want fast gear free! I don't want to spend time playing the game to get my gear!"

[seam]

I fail to see how not wanting to run a 2 hour 5 man 6 times to get one item is lazy...

Some of us do have a life, believe it or not.

[Jagang]

Since the scarlet monastery, I'm fond of winged dungeons.
You have time : you go al around !

The thing is, BRD is winged. It just doesnt have 3 different portals. being divided into the only way you can go when you dont have your shadowforge key up to incendius/the bar run for mc attunements and thorium brotherhood handins/and the lyceneum and emperor. Ok, maybe just 2. Still, Any time I ever did an emp run, there was no reason to do anything before angerforge and you could skip him and golemlord if you wanted.

The real reason people hate brd is because its too hard to go to wowhead and look at a map. After you do it your first time, you know it. And after that, you begin to be able to respect the amount of thought put into it. That single(2 wing) instance pretty much has every type of encounter you could ask for in a 5 man. I'd prefer more like that. It really is a little lame when you look at something like hos and its literally 4-5 hallways.

Nobody ever forced anyone to do a full clear of brd. If you wanted something at the end, it was a straight shot to the bar, the problem you probably had was the lyceneum. Yes i remember the pally QQ about the lf piece off emp.

All in all, I would vote for bringing back larger, well thought out instances. the lore behind the ones we have in tbc and wrath is fine, I just think they lack cool factor and depth. Give me multiple ways to go and an actual dungeon to explore pl0x.

[Gilian]

As a few others have said, heroics in wotlk weren't quite so easy when we were all freshly dinged 80s, tanks could get hit quite hard and things didn't die the moment they were pulled. I remember the abomination boss (first) in CoS killing the tank once or twice whilst the healer was chained! I'm sure you all remember people complaining about Loken and the wipes there too, now with the dps being what it is you just stand there and take one AoE at the most.

Ofcourse the wotlk heroics where harder when no one was overgearing the instance. But you didn't wipe because of gear on Loken. You wiped because people can't do heroics without mistakes. That's why now (when everyone is overgearing heroics) everyone just stays in Lokens AoE and healers just heal through it. Wich is actually quite ridiculous.

Heroics are doable with freshly dinged level 80 characters with blue gear, but you have to clear it in a normal way (CC mobs, don't overagro every pull, don't ninja pull and use normal tactics). And not people doing 800 dps, but 1500-2000 dps wich is easily doable if you can read tooltips.


I prefer TBC heroics over wotlk heroics. It was harder and sometimes it took longer, but it was a lot more fun. But wotlk heroics have advantages like fast groups, fast runs, fast loot.

[seam]

I prefer TBC heroics over wotlk heroics. It was harder and sometimes it took longer, but it was a lot more fun. But wotlk heroics have advantages like fast groups, fast runs, fast loot.

I gotta comment on that, to agree with it.

Shadow Labs.
Full T5 group. Warrior tank, 2 dps locks, Shadowpriest, shaman.

We could not get past the first boss dude clearing the trash the the blackheart dude.
It's not that we were bad, but our tank was getting nearly insta-gibbed, our shadowpriest was pulling threat on the non-kill targets due to VP(I think?), and the locks couldn't CC at all.

Then I go to Seth.
Full T4 group, with a pug healer.

Last boss, pull one healer dies the aoe.
Pull two healer dies
Pull three Healer dies
Pull four, tank dies. Healer was too busy healing himself.

Granted one was a pug and we didnt have CC in another, how often do you get groups like that nowadays? Even overgeared in BC heroics were fairly tough.

Well...some were.
Others were a joke.

>_>
*cough*BMafterthespeednerf*cough*

[leto]

Then I go to Seth.
Full T4 group, with a pug healer.

Last boss, pull one healer dies the aoe.
Pull two healer dies
Pull three Healer dies
Pull four, tank dies. Healer was too busy healing himself.

Granted one was a pug and we didnt have CC in another, how often do you get groups like that nowadays? Even overgeared in BC heroics were fairly tough.

How often do we get people who can't move out of the fire? Way too often, unfortunately...

[Deleted]

I dont want massive 5 mans since you get stuck in there for hours. But I do want some heroics which require a bit more skill.

[Xzenoo]

YES! massive 5man instances are back with ice crown patch I cant wait to get into The Frozen Halls! :P

[jinreeko]

Wings, definitely. BRD is absolutely horrid to go back through. Id o not want 5 mans to take over two hours. Which BRD did.

Not that fond of UBRS either.

[Freyros]

Winged 5 mans. Sure, i'd like them to be massive, but after you run them 2-3 times, you just want some items from there. And since when you just want to farm a particular one for an item, you want to do it as fast as possible. So winged it is!

I couldn't agree more. Leave the massiveness to raids.

I'd prefer both...why blizzard refuses to add variety to the game beats me

I'd have no problem having a few instances like gun'drak etc then a few massive 5 mans i.e. BRD

Make the loot slightly better from the end bosses in the massive 5 mans, sorted

This won't work. The heroic gear becomes obsolete as soon, as people start raiding. What does not is the badges/emblems. In TBC everyone in my guild ran heroic Botanica, Slave Pens and Underbog almost daily, because these were the easiest and the fastest, and all everyone wanted were the badges. Everyone feared the trash pulls in Shadow Labyrinth or The Shattered Halls, everyone feared Nethermancer Sepethrea, Zereketh the Unbound, Pandemonius, Murmur and Kargath Bladefist, so people instictively avoided them. In WotLK there are no cockblocks like that (maybe except for the dragon fight in Oculus), so every dungeon has visitors often.

[Choda]

Fuck BRD, LBRS is teh shit.

Seriously though - Massive. As someone said before, BRD was FUCKING HUGE, but it wasn't linear, you could skip most of it and still get to Tharusian.

As for Strat... that didn't exactly take more than an hour... a bit longer than what you have today but then again I am a firm believer that stuff is too watered down these days.

[Synithin]

I would definitely like something like BRD or UBRS again maybe easier to find your way through since it was a pain to find the way through BRD sometimes with pug members getting lost ;D

But anyways, anything that would break the monotony 5Man dungeons have become.

If you think back on outland 5man compared to wotlk they were much harder and even though you had the best gear you could still wipe easily if you made a mistake or pulled an extra group, now its just like "Oops i pulled 2 extra groups, np well just aoe them down"

So just give something that would be an experience instead of just something you just go and "do"

[Eyerai]

Personally Ubrs/Lbrs were my favorite instances ever, i never had a dull moment in there, especially when it came to kiting drakki <3 it. But the 20 minute short welfarelootfilled HCs of WotlK are some what dull compaired to the quite difficult and rage induceing HCs of TBC which tbh had shitty loot compaired to the strain you went through to just complete some of them. Tbh i dont particulatly like how HCs have been implemented from the challenging TBC HCs to the just doing it for dat tier 8 baby attitude of the WotlK HCs, maybe a mix of both for cata would be ideal.

[Gron]

Current heroics are boring, at least in BC you could have a challenge / fun there with guild.
Worst is that all heroics now are supereasy, you go afk and clear it. At least some harder ones could bring back fun.

[Brince]

For those who played Classic, you will most likely of remembered the MASSIVE Instances like Black Rock Depths, that could keep you running for hours. They would have a Ton of bosses (some hard, some easy), and could gain you a level or two in one clear. They would contain little things that provided a change in pace, like the BRD Pub, and a dependence on Keys, so you can skip ahead. Required CC.

With BC and WOTLK however, most 5 mans have Wings leading to shorter instances. They contain a smaller complement of bosses that are most of the time much harder to kill. They would provide a part of a level worth experience. They contain Heroic Mode which made bosses harder. BC Instance required CC.

Now, in your opinion, what did you ENJOY more? Massive 5 mans, or Winged 5 mans? Or did you like elements from both?

You know, not everyone has 4 free hours to spend in a 5 man dungeon. Vanilla dungeons were a nightmare.
I vote for BC/wtolk dungeons for sure.

[DrJones]

I like vanilla dungeons better than todays dungeons, but I don't want cataclysm dungeons to become like them.

Back then you could farm one part of an instance over and over (lets say strat baron), but skip the rest of the instance.
If you would have something like that today, everyone would want to clear EVERYTHING EVERYTIME you go in there, since you can only do so once a day (at least on heroic), which might not sound that bad if you only think of baron and monastery, but strat had also stuff like that post-guy-whatever that people didn't want to do more than ocne even back than.
And well no one wants to farm a instance similar to brd on a daily basis, while killing every boss (all 13 or whatever it was).

So while I realy love the feel of brd, I know it wont work again if it there would be a brd 2.0 in cataclysm, in fact it would be horrible.

Enjoyment in past days: massive dungeons
Enjoyment in the future: winged dungeons with a little more awesomeness than current ones (as in more than zero).

[Yad]

<3 BRD and it's countless ways for clearing the instance or farming specific things!
allthough the whole blackrock, including the raids, was a masterpiece in design art and lore.

but the only thing i really want is that the 5 mans get challenging again.
i don't mean it to be like bc, which indeed was pretty neat.
i've something in mind more like scholomance pre nurf!
cuz that shit was really hardcore back in vanilla.....

[Deleted]

I am in two minds.

I like the quick 'lets do x instance quick before y has to go offline' then we go do that instance in 20 mins or so.
But I also like the older instances like Dire Maul and Scarlet Monostary, where you could literally spend hours with your guild doing all the 'wings'

I am glad they are bringing back an epic scalled instance for 5 men to enjoy.

[IhatePvE]

My favorite would be Dire Maul, which was almost a mixture of the two; it was winged, yes, but you could move from one wing to another without having to go through the hub. It also had some nice atmosphere, and might have been more fun if it wasn't brutal to navigate.

To be fair, Heroics *were* kinda hard early in LK, back when Naxx was new and most people lacked purples. I still remember PuGs skipping King Dred because his bleed would destroy the many undergeared tanks that took him on. Back then people *needed* the gear from Heroics in order to actually be able to perform in raids; they didn't have welfare epics because Naxx *was* the welfare epics, and even Naxx had a gear threshold (after a fashion). Nowadays, everyone is unilaterally overgeared for Heroics and it has become a mindless badge grind.

As to BC Heroics, I'll quote one of our Raid Leaders: "Run Heroics? Nah, let's just do Karazhan."

I cant say better thenthis guy did...I love DM most of all dangeons even now.