About Haste, Casting Speed, GCD: Need to dispell confusions

[rubberbands]

Hi everyone, first off long time reader, first time poster. There are many confusing, conflicting and tedious comments about Haste and I hope to be able to get some clear answers about how it works. I would like to consider the following three as seperate properties: Haste Rating, Casting Speed, and Spell Haste (the last is especially ambigous)

What I do know (please confirm):

1. The GCD will never go below 1 second, no matter how many procs/trinkets/lusts you try to chain

2. The formula for GCD is as follows

3279
GCD = 1.5 X -----------
3279 + HR

Where HR is your haste rating (at 80 of course)

You can also replace 1.5 seconds with the cast time AFTER talents to make it look like this

3279
Spell Cast Time = Normal Cast time after talents X -----------
3279 + HR

What is ambiguous is (please help):

3. Bloodlust, Power Infusion claim to increase "casting speed". Moonkin and WOA totem (and moonkin is interchangable with ret) increase "spell haste" by 8%. Would the following be correct?

3279 1
Spell Cast Time = Normal Cast time after talents X ----------- X ----------
3279 + HR 1.08

4. Do the above buffs lower the GCD?

5. How do reduce cast time buffs (Serendipity, Tidal Waves) tie in with this? (also not sure if these affect the GCD)

6. How does the spell "queing" in wow work?

I know that this sounds like alot of mathcraft and TLDR, but im just trying to know more about haste. Posting in here since i'm a priest myself, and doesnt seem to fit into general. Many thanks if anyone can provide some insight. Question #4 would be most crucial.

[harky]

3: As far as I know haste is additive for spells, while it's multiplicative for melee and has some other caveats to discuss. Primarily attacks per minute as it relates to swing speed. This is also the reason for the 11% hard cap on haste of Disc (Penance becomes GCD capped at 1 second with BT).

4: As far as I know, yes.

5: Again, as far as I know yes. From what I remember those types of buffs do not actually alter haste in any way. Instead they actually change the base cast time. This means what is bringing the cast times to under 1.5 seconds is haste, which as we all know reduces the GCD. I'd need to respec at the moment to actually test this, but here's how you can test it: Take off all your haste gear and cast FH x3. Check your PoH cast time. Now put on your Haste gear. Check the cast time again. Check it once more when Serendipity wears off. It should be fairly clear after that.

6: There is no queue for spells in WoW. The only thing that is possible is to 'clip' spells. This refers to tracking your latency and beginning a new cast client side within the gap between synchronization with the server. For instance you cast a 2 second spell with 200 latency (.2 seconds). At 1.81 seconds of that cast, you instruct your client to cast another spell. It takes .2 seconds for the server to receive this information, which allows the first spell to properly cast. Note that this is unrelated to DoT clipping (recasting a DoT before it has expired), or the old term Shot clipping (a defunct Hunter term where a Steady Shot would prevent an auto-shot from firing). However, as mentioned, there is no spell queue in the normal sense. If you hit a GCD bound spell multiple times within a time frame less than the GCD time only one spell will be sent. If that's not what you're asking, you'll need to clarify.

[Liliyah]

3: As far as I know haste is additive for spells, while it's multiplicative for melee and has some other caveats to discuss. Primarily attacks per minute as it relates to swing speed. This is also the reason for the 11% hard cap on haste of Disc (Penance becomes GCD capped at 1 second with BT).

It is multiplicative for spells.

[Danner]

Answer to question #3:

* Haste rating stacks additively. You get haste rating from gear and trinket procs.
* Haste stacks multiplicatively. You get haste from Blood Lust, Power Infusion, Troll berserking etc.
* But keep in mind that EXTERNAL buffs do not stack! Only the biggest buff will count in this case.
- Any buff castable on others count as an external buff. It doesn't matter if you cast it on yourself; if you can cast it on others it counts as an external buff.
- This means that Power infusion and Blood Lust will not stack.
- But Bloodlust and Troll Berserking will, since Troll Berserking is self only!

Example:
If you have 328 haste rating (equals a 10% speed increase at lvl 80, as given by your formula)
And then gain bloodlust (yielding +30% haste)
And then gain power infusion (yielding +20% haste)
And then gain Troll berserking (yielding +20% haste)

Then you can calculate haste by eliminating all but the largest external buff (in this case; bloodlust beats power infusion; so your power infusion buff is pointless due to non-stackability). The remaining casting speed is calculated as:

1.10 (from gear) * 1.30 (from bloodlust) * 1.20 (from troll berserking) = 1.76 (your cast speed multiplier)

If your old spell took 3 seconds to cast, it now takes 3/1.76 = 1.7 seconds to cast.


Answer to question #4:

The GCD is also affected by your cast speed multiplier as seen above, but remember, you can still not break rule #1. The GCD will never drop below 1 second.

Keep in mind that all spells are subject to the global cooldown, even if that isn't normally apparent. Even if you had haste to get your cast down to 0.2 seconds worth of casting time, you would still have to wait for the remaining 0.8 seconds of the minimum global cooldown.

This means you will eventually reach a haste cap. If your spell is taking less than 1 seconds to cast, you are going too fast. There may still be some advantage to being over the haste cap; for example - if your spell is able to be cast in 0.2 seconds, that means you will be immune to interrupts and pushbacks for the remaining 0.8 seconds. But usually, this is a really worthless advantage.

Answer to question #5:

Serendipity and friends reduce the spell initial cast time. Using an untalented GHeal as an example; the base cast time is at 3 seconds. As seen above, a 1.76 cast speed multiplier reduce our Gheal to a 1.7 seconds cast.

Serendipity is basically modifying the base cast time, or the "3 seconds" number if you like. If you happen to have a 3 stack serendipity, you will get a -36% cast time reduction. It's given as a percentage to work better with Divine Fury. Basically, your GHeal would be cast in (100% - 36% =) 64% of the initial time; or 3 * 64% = 1.92 seconds.

With 3xserendipity up, it is this number that is modified by the cast speed multiplier, which in this example was at 1.76. Gheal is thus lowered to a 1.92/1.76 = 1.09s cast time.

If you are wondering; Divine Fury is applied before Serendipity; you can basically redo this example with a base cast tie of 2.5 seconds instead of 3 seconds if you want numbers with Divine Fury in them.

Answer to question #6:

Harky explained this one really good. You're wondering about the clipping feature. Basically, if you have a silly high 600 ms ping time, any transmission between you and the server will take 300 ms, and 300 ms back. Thanks, Antara! If you are chaincasting a spell with a 3 second cast time, this timeline occurs:

0: You press your cast. Client sends a CAST_START message to the server, locks down your GUI.
300: Server recieves CAST_START message, now your toon starts casting for real, serverside. Client told to display the castbar.
600: Client recieves word that the spell started casting, displays a cast bar.
3300: Server notes 3 the seconds of cast time is done, fires off the cast and sends a CAST_FINISHED to the client.
3600: Client-side castbar hits 3 seconds. Incidentially, since our PING is stable, the following will also occur:
3600: Client recieves CAST_FINISHED, fires off the casting animation and unlocks the GUI.

But you just spend 3600 ms casting a 3000 ms spell! That is going to hurt your DPS bigtime in the long run, and isn't remotely fair to those with a sloppy connection. Blizzard has countered the problem by allowing the client to track your PING, and anticipate the server's "spell finished casting" message. The new timeline looks like this:

0: You press your cast. Client sends a CAST_START message to the server, locks down your GUI.
300: Server recieves CAST_START message, now your toon starts casting for real, serverside. Client told to display the castbar.
600: Client recieves word that the spell started casting, displays a cast bar.
3000: The client notices that 3 seconds has passed, assumes the spell has been cast, unlocks the GUI. You can now cast again! At this point, your castbar is at 2.4s/3s. To the user it seems like he can "clip" his existing cast.
3300: Server notes 3 the seconds of cast time is done, fires off the cast and sends a CAST_FINISHED to the client.
3600: Client-side castbar hits 3 seconds. Incidentially, since our PING is stable at 300 ms, the following will also occur:
3600: Client recieves CAST_FINISHED, fires off the casting animation and unlocks the GUI.

This way, you get to cast a spell every 3000 milliseconds. The major reason is that the server let's you clip your own casts. There are addons out there allowing you to visually see when you can clip spells if you like the feature; I personally use Pitbull for this even though I must admit it's not a really useful feature. I usually just hammer the key of the spell I want to cast until it fires :P

[rubberbands]

Thanks harky and danner for taking the time to reply extensively. I think I can understand about multiplicative casting speeds and reduced casting imes for serendipity. I have 3 more questions (#8 being most pertinent)

(Danner)The GCD is also affected by your cast speed multiplier as seen above

Would you know how exactly it affects? Exactly the same as how it would affect a 1.5 sec cast? I think it's pretty established that at 1639.5 Haste Rating is where you get 1.00 sec GCD (lets ignore trees for now)

BigQuestion
8.Say I have a boomkin and a WOA totem in my raid. Does this mean I only need of 42% increased casting speed, or 1377 haste rating to achieve this 1.00 sec GCD?
By extension, 12%, or 393 haste rating during bloodlust for this 1 sec GCD?
Or would it still be 1639.5 Haste Rating at all times for a one sec GCD, due to casting speeds being "multiplicative"

(from http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t15393-global_cooldown/) Bloodlust and Heroism will not lower the global cooldown for abilities that do not benefit from spell haste. Abilities that make use of spell haste receive the benefit of Bloodlust lowering their global cooldown as noted above.

9. Is this really an issue only for "noncasters" like hunters?

The client notices that 3 seconds has passed, assumes the spell has been cast, unlocks the GUI. You can now cast again! At this point, your castbar is at 2.4s/3s. To the user it seems like he can "clip" his existing cast.

10. So GCD will always be client-side? Are there any disadvantages to, say, mashing the next spell repeatedly, before this 2.4s mark where the cast is done server side?



---------------------
I did read up some stuff prior to making this topic, but I'm not too bright and some of this info is unclear or confusing. It does not help that i cant find anyway to record the length of GCDs either.

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=2825 [I believe there are some false comments which were misleading me here]
http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t29742-s...ing_mechanics/ [thanks danner, that was much easier to understand than this]
http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t15393-global_cooldown/
http://www.wowwiki.com/Spell_haste

[Danner]

Answer to Question Number 7:

I actually made a tiny mistake earlier; spell haste is not given by your formula at all; I knew I should've doublechecked that.

If you want your haste percentage; simply divide your haste rating by the lvl80 haste rating requirement. That's what I did earlier, so my previous example still holds, just the notion that the number was given by your formula is incorrect. Aaanyway...

At level 80, 1% haste corresponds to 32.79 haste rating. At 1639.5 haste rating, this means you have a 50% haste; simply divide 1639.5 by 32.79 to get that number.

Your spell haste modifier from your cast time multiplier from haste rating is thus 1.5 (aka +50%). In my previous example, this number was 1.1 (aka +10%). Assuming no other sources of haste in this case, this is also the final number used to modify cast speed of spells and the GCD. It really works in the same way for both.

The GCD is divided by your cast time modifier just like any spell. A GCD of 1.5 seconds divided by the 1.5 cast time modifier will get you a 1 second GCD. Simple. Imagine replacing the word "GCD" with "Flash Heal" in the previous sentence and you get the idea.

As I already said, abilities taking more than the calculated GCD time will have to wait for the GCD time regardless. If you have 1639.5 haste, and employ a 1 second GCD, casting a spell taking 0.2 seconds will not help one bit - you will still need to wait the remaining 0.8 seconds before you can cast anything else. But this is wait-time, and thus works like the delay between instant casts.

But, assuming you are spamming Pyroblast. This spell takes 5 seconds to cast, you allows you to take advantage of haste beyond this initial GCD cap. If you by some means had 16395 haste rating, this would give you a cast time multiplier of 5 using the logic above, and that means the pyroblast would take ( 5 (seconds spell cast time) / 5 (cast time multiplier) = 1 second to cast. Which is still within the minimum GCD.

So as you can see, the GCD haste cap isn't really hard, it's possible to take good advantage of haste beyond the GCD cap by simply casting spells with a longer cast time. Though I'd like to see anyone stably reach 16k haste rating!

Answer to Question Number 8:

I'll assume you are talking about the GCD cap in this case. The 1.0 second GCD is acquired when your cast time multiplier surpasses 1.5.

* Wrath of Air yields a 5% SPELL HASTE (external, doesn't stack with other external buffs giving SPELL HASTE).
* Improved moonkin aura yields a 3% HASTE (external, doesn't stack with other external buffs giving HASTE).

These two actually does stack, since they don't offer the same benefit. Assuming you have both nearby, you need to solve the following equation:

X (haste multiplier from haste rating) * 1.05 (haste multiplier from WoA) * 1.03 (haste multiplier from moonkin) = 1.5
==> X = 1.387

Basically, if you attain 38.7% haste from haste rating, you will hit the 1.0 seconds GCD. Or 1268 haste rating if you like (just multiply it by 32.79). Your premise holds. Most people often even calculate Bloodlust into this equation, which I find questionable, but..

Answer to Question Number 9:

Haste rating works differently for weapon attacks. Basically, haste lowers your weapon attack speed according to some formula I never cared to memorize (probably something like your formula); i'm sure it's present on Wowwiki somewhere. However: Abilities works like spells , but with two exceptions. Noncaster abilities are almost always instant, but that's a techicality. And if you have a buff giving SPELL HASTE only, some abilities won't be affected by that haste as they are technically not considered spells. Aimed Shot, f.ex is not a spell, but works like an instant spell-like attack. So WoA won't affect it, you can not multiply the GCD form aimed shot by WoA's 5% haste.

Other than that, haste will reduce the GCD in the same way for noncasters and casters alike.

Edit: Answer invalidated since it's wrong. Noncaster abilities are with few exceptions not counted as spells, and will not have their GCDs lowered by haste. I refer to Harky's post further below for the correct answer.

Answer to Question Number 10:

The GCD is server-side. Everything except the pixels on your screen is server-side - you simply cannot trust the client; someone will find a way to hack it, Warden or not. So all decisions happen on the server side, including when to start a GCD and for how long.

The client has just been hardwired to measure the ping and allow for "clipping" casts up to 2x of the ping time. The server does the same measurement; and should your next spell get there "early", it will be delayed until it can actually be cast (my conjecture). No matter how you twist it; you will not be able to cast that 3 second spell more often than 3 seconds; the clip feature just ensures that you don't have to add 2xPing to the cast time for every spell.

There is no real advantage between mashing and precise clipping. If you know what to cast next, simply mashing that button usually means you get to cast it within a reasonable delta of the optimal time. It also makes your fingers sore and wears out your keyboard. And for better or worse, it puts you into a rythm - which can be devastating when you suddenly need to use some other spell very fast (like f.ex GS) but usually lowers the risk of failures for predictable fights as far as healing goes.

Precise clipping is probably superior, but it's also a bit tricky to get right - as I'm sure experienced shadowpriests can attest to! For shadowpriests in particular, the difference between precisely clipping a mind flay and spamming the mind blast key until it casts is enormous on the DPS meters.

[rubberbands]

Answer to Question Number 8:

I'll assume you are talking about the GCD cap in this case. The 1.0 second GCD is acquired when your cast time multiplier surpasses 1.5.

* Wrath of Air yields a 5% SPELL HASTE (external, doesn't stack with other external buffs giving SPELL HASTE).
* Improved moonkin aura yields a 3% HASTE (external, doesn't stack with other external buffs giving HASTE).

These two actually does stack, since they don't offer the same benefit. Assuming you have both nearby, you need to solve the following equation:

X (haste multiplier from haste rating) * 1.05 (haste multiplier from WoA) * 1.03 (haste multiplier from moonkin) = 1.5
==> X = 1.387

Basically, if you attain 38.7% haste from haste rating, you will hit the 1.0 seconds GCD. Or 1268 haste rating if you like (just multiply it by 32.79). Your premise holds.

Brilliant! Much thanks, this was exactly what I was looking high and low for, but could not find any answers. This has great implications, because it means im only short of about 120 haste to a passive 1 sec GCD in raids. definetely achievable for most mid-level raiders by 3.3 (if they choose to do this)

Most people often even calculate Bloodlust into this equation, which I find questionable, but..

I presume this is why the EJ compendium thread lists 11-12% as the "hard/soft" haste cap. This makes sense now.

[harky]

Haste rating works differently for weapon attacks. Basically, haste lowers your weapon attack speed according to some formula I never cared to memorize...

It's based on attacks per second.

1 / ( 1 / wspd * haste )

You can use any value though, a lot of people find attacks per minute easier to wrap their head around. Just use 60 instead of 1.

2.4 weapon speed equates to 25 attacks per minute. Adding 30% haste increases that to 32.5 attacks per minute, which is 1.846 weapon speed.

Haste also has no effect on the GCD of melee abilities.

The only 'non caster' that even runs into clipping problems is Hunter. In BC Steady Shot was overpowered, but also had problems which forced Hunters to use macros to DPS. Even if you timed the shots by hand, you needed a macro to force the auto-shot through. That problem is now resolved as Hunters can auto-shoot while casting it, the new 'problem' is actually the desire to get the cast time of Steady Shot down low enough to allow a better rotation. But, this isn't a 'non caster' problem, because Steady Shot behaves like a spell.

It's also important to remember with melee that procs and attack power modifiers apply based on the wspd before haste calculations. The same applies to rage gains.

[-Ethos-]

Brilliant! Much thanks, this was exactly what I was looking high and low for, but could not find any answers. This has great implications, because it means im only short of about 120 haste to a passive 1 sec GCD in raids. definetely achievable for most mid-level raiders by 3.3 (if they choose to do this)

I'm curious as to why you would need so much haste :L



Even more so after looking at your armoury :-\

[Danner]

Harky: Really? Even melee/ranged haste doesn't affect non-spell ability GCDs?

I know that spell haste doesn't affect non-spell ability GCDs, but if you are correct, then only "white damage" is affected by bloodlust for non-casters? That seems kinda harsh...

[antara]

0: You press your cast. Client sends a CAST_START message to the server, locks down your GUI.
300: Server recieves CAST_START message, now your toon starts casting for real, serverside. Client told to display the castbar.
600: Client recieves word that the spell started casting, displays a cast bar.
3000: The client notices that 3 seconds has passed, assumes the spell has been cast, unlocks the GUI. You can now cast again! At this point, your castbar is at 2.4s/3s. To the user it seems like he can "clip" his existing cast.
3300: Server notes 3 the seconds of cast time is done, fires off the cast and sends a CAST_FINISHED to the client.
3600: Client-side castbar hits 3 seconds. Incidentially, since our PING is stable at 300 ms, the following will also occur:
3600: Client recieves CAST_FINISHED, fires off the casting animation and unlocks the GUI.

This way, you get to cast a spell every 3000 milliseconds. The major reason is that the server let's you clip your own casts. There are addons out there allowing you to visually see when you can clip spells if you like the feature; I personally use Pitbull for this even though I must admit it's not a really useful feature. I usually just hammer the key of the spell I want to cast until it fires :P

You are correct in general, except a slight mistake. Ping is the roundtrip time, since this is the only way it can be measured. Which means if you have 300ms latency it takes 300ms for you "ping" to go to the server and "pong" return to you. So it is more like 150ms to get to the server and 150ms to return.
So it would go like this:
0: You press your cast. Client sends a CAST_START message to the server, locks down your GUI.
150: Server recieves CAST_START message, now your toon starts casting for real, serverside. Client told to display the castbar.
300: Client recieves word that the spell started casting, displays a cast bar.
3000: The client notices that 3 seconds has passed, assumes the spell has been cast, unlocks the GUI. You can now cast again! At this point, your castbar is at 2.4s/3s. To the user it seems like he can "clip" his existing cast.
3150: Server notes 3 the seconds of cast time is done, fires off the cast and sends a CAST_FINISHED to the client.
3300: Client-side castbar hits 3 seconds. Incidentially, since our PING is stable at 300 ms, the following will also occur:
3300: Client recieves CAST_FINISHED, fires off the casting animation and unlocks the GUI.

[harky]

Harky: Really? Even melee/ranged haste doesn't affect non-spell ability GCDs?

I know that spell haste doesn't affect non-spell ability GCDs, but if you are correct, then only "white damage" is affected by bloodlust for non-casters? That seems kinda harsh...

That's correct. Keep in mind that lowering the GCD would have a very limited impact on most melee though. The only thing it would do is help to get around cooldown clashing. All melee are governed by cooldowns, or other mechanics outside of the GCD system. Rogues are governed by Energy, DKs by their available runes and RP. Warrior, Shaman and Paladin are all governed by ability cooldowns. Shaman and Paladin do have more clashing than other classes, but the DPS gain would be minimal. DKs would get marginal short term gains for most specs and no gain for specs using UP, which manually sets their GCD to 1 second. Rogues, even during AR don't energy cap, so there would be no purpose even if their GCD wasn't rumored to be 1 second by default.

It does sound harsh, but it really isn't. If you look at possible rotations with shorter GCDs and the effective DPS increase you'll find most classes wouldn't notice a difference. For instance a Warrior would need to have a GCD clash during those 30 seconds, while Warrior rotations only clash about one a minute. DK only clashes between cycles if they have excessive RP. Rogue never clashes. That leaves Shaman clashing from MW procs and Paladin from having too many instant attacks to juggle. However, both of those classes gain a ton from BL as is due to on-hit procs. The haste naturally increases Seal damage and gives Shaman more MW procs and typically better returns from WF. It's hard to feel bad for them.

[Danner]

Antara:

The electronics engineer in me is groaning in pain over doing such a mistake. I'm going to have to sign myself up for some spanking later. Glad you pointed it out, but I hope everyone forget that blunder very soon. Because this was kinda embarrassing :P


Harky:

Thank you for the thorough tutorial; I learned something today. And when you put it like that it makes a lot of sense - being locked by GCDs is a caster thing indeed.

Also, considering how often I'm turned into a red floor decoration in 0.2 seconds by any melee class while waiting outside of a raid - I'll have to agree on the feeling sorry for them part. Bastards :P

[Strykzor]

I'm curious as to why you would need so much haste :L



Even more so after looking at your armoury :-\

Gheal snipes.
Its how the pros do it!

@Rubbaddie
Gem INT idiot and spec something like this
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...vuhd,-Ot,10522

[rubberbands]

Antara: thanks for the clarification. If i understand you correct, it means that whatever one's latency is say 150ms as in your example, one should try to aim to start the next cast 150ms before he *sees* his cast bar finish (assuming no pushback), if he wants to cast with no "time gap" in between.

Gheal snipes.
Its how the pros do it!

@Rubbaddie
Gem INT idiot and spec something like this
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...vuhd,-Ot,10522

Now it's totally fine if you disagree with my gear/gems/spec. I'm used to being questioned about this, but just because I dont follow the popular trend of Int stacking or take whatever EJ says as law, doesnt mean you can just come here and call me an idiot. Just beacuse you think you need a over 30k mana pool and renew, doesnt mean I need that. Just because you brazenly assume my haste is for "sniping heals", doesnt mean that's what its for (and for the record, I don't and I dont approve of this term). In any case, this topic is to help myself and others who are interested in understanding haste better get some good and easy-to-understand info. I believe there is a lack of this kind of info going around.

[llDemonll]

you do have a pretty retarded organization of stats, but if it works then it works. you should never need that amount of haste though, your raid would be better off without it as all the other healers will have more overhealing than they should due to you sniping heals they are attempting to make.

but why do all holy priests take inspiration? does the raid really need that extra damage mitigation from the....large physical aoe damage that bosses have?

[harky]

He is overboard on haste, but he didn't come here asking for gear advice. He just wanted some clarifications on how haste worked. Trolling him won't help anything.

As far as Holy Priests taking inspiration? You never know where PoM is going to wind up. CoH and PoH tag tanks all the time. There are a lot of fights these days where people may take incidental melee damage. Anub, Faction Champs, etc. Any boss with adds, a whirlwind, etc it can be useful. Besides that there just isn't much to gain by skipping it. You'll have to pick between a bunch of other situational talents that you may or may not use anyway.

[rubberbands]

(Demon) your raid would be better off without it as all the other healers will have more overhealing than they should due to you sniping heals they are attempting to make

The "heal sniping" situation is IMO a theoretical slippery slope that ignores an individual's playstyles and techniques and assumes a homogeneous healing team who cannot react. It also assumes that there is a only a grossly limited amount of damage going out, such that healers have to "compete" [whose heal gets in first], rather then [how fast can we respond to damage]. Anyways, this works for me and thanks for recognizing that that's possible

Besides that there just isn't much to gain by skipping it

. This is pretty much true, if you look closely at the first 3 tiers of the holy tree, most of these are highly situational (as mentioned) or subpar. Also personally, I don't exactly believe in rigidly sticking to your "healing assignments" wholeheartedly. There will definetely be many times where so called "tank healers" have to help out nontanks and viceversa. Whether and how much of this to do is really a snap judgement that all healers have to make (Your personal views on this or your guild's healing officers' attitudes might differ)

TLDR: Depends somewhat on how you do things, and what else would you be taking anyway?

[Khoii]

this topic is to help myself and others who are interested in understanding haste better get some good and easy-to-understand info.

You guys lost me after those initial numbers and the "simple maths" ;D

Never the less I`m impressed by people doing this calculations and putting in effort and lot`s of work into these kind of posts!
Will read this thrue at another time when I`ve eaten my vitamins and arent dead tired

To you mofos that tryed to ruin this thread by posting "How to gem and specc" lol guides I just want to say get a haircut and a job :

Best regards! // Khoii