Does arcane need a crit buff like scorch?

[tommystep]

Arcane is an awesome spec but it lacks buffs need in 25 mans; 5% crit bonus to all casters. Fire has it, Frost has it even frostfire has it. Basically with out arcane bringing this buff there will have to be a mage applying scorch in raids, yes i know warlocks can cover that buff but really affliction dps is just terrible. Do you guys think arcane should get something similar to scorch?

[Sensei_Sin]

No.
If Arcane mages could apply that debuff w/o sacrificing DPS, then everyone would spec Arcane.
Currently Arcane provides good personal DPS, Fire gives good personal DPS, AoE DPS and even has a very good raid DPS boost (Scorch).
Keep the specs separated from each other so we, mages, can actually have a choice, instead of every mage and their pets spec'ing Arcane because of flavor of the month.

[tommystep]

But without it, you are forced to play a certain spec.

[Micke]

frost applies the debuff, fire applies the debuff, makes sense to make arcane do so aswell, just change fires way of applying it to make it smoother and its set. aff/demo locks get an easy way to apply the buff but that is totally wasted since most are destro anyway, may aswell give fire the same treatment.

and I'm pretty sure I read somewhere GC saying that the scorch debuff was prob a bit too stretched way to apply the debuff and they would look to change it, maybe in 3.3 seeing the ptr notes are far from done?

can hope.


edit: and yes its easy to get forced to having to play fire if no one else will apply the 5% crit debuff

[Linek]

I have a feeling you (not intended to be a troll) have not read the 3.3 Patch Notes Arcane is getting a Raid Utility. But No we (I am an Arcane mage) do not need a crit debuff. If we did the clear dps answer would be Arcane. At present both Fire and Arcane can Vie for Top Dps in some boss bouts which is great to see, If anything the mage community including Blizz should be now focusing on how to bring Frost PvE Deeps up so we can see it in raids as well, but it is not just mages that have a spec that is lacking in PvE (Subtlety). Anyways I will post back if you would like with a quote as to the specific raid utility Arcane is getting.

For the sake of the argument I scrolled down a little on mmo-champs main page. Here is the utility arcane gives;
Arcane

* Arcane Empowerment additional effect - In addition, when you score a critical hit with Arcane Missiles, Arcane Explosion, Arcane Blast, or Arcane Barrage all party and raid members have all damage increased by 1/2/3% for 10 sec.

[Micke]

I think we all read the patch notes, but PTR stuff ARE NOT final, and whats the problem discussing things that might have been a smarter solution to arcanes utility issue?

and why would arcane be the clear dps answer if they could apply the crit debuff too? fire still have better aoe, and like I said the scorch debuff may get a makeover in some form before cataclysm

[tommystep]

I have a feeling you (not intended to be a troll) have not read the 3.3 Patch Notes Arcane is getting a Raid Utility. But No we (I am an Arcane mage) do not need a crit debuff. If we did the clear dps answer would be Arcane. At present both Fire and Arcane can Vie for Top Dps in some boss bouts which is great to see, If anything the mage community including Blizz should be now focusing on how to bring Frost PvE Deeps up so we can see it in raids as well, but it is not just mages that have a spec that is lacking in PvE (Subtlety). Anyways I will post back if you would like with a quote as to the specific raid utility Arcane is getting.

For the sake of the argument I scrolled down a little on mmo-champs main page. Here is the utility arcane gives;
Arcane

* Arcane Empowerment additional effect - In addition, when you score a critical hit with Arcane Missiles, Arcane Explosion, Arcane Blast, or Arcane Barrage all party and raid members have all damage increased by 1/2/3% for 10 sec.

Ya i did read them and that "buff" is totally useless in 25 mans. Ret pally?

[Linek]

I apologize I did come into this with a different idea as to the topic, and Tommy you are correct that utility is exclusive with a Ret Pally buff so its eh compared to Fire's but it is a utility. For me (am a noob at fire) Arcane has a nice flow and I enjoy it. I do see more fire and as Micke stated fire is great AoE and Single Target. At the moment though there are a lot of threads about how Arcane is dominating over Fire and a lot of QQ around that. I entered this swinging thinking it would turn into another Arcane Needs Nerf Thread. On a the topic I think instead of say a dmg increase Arcane could bring in a haste buff to the raid. Nothing Major but still nice. There are a lot of talents in Arcane that focus on reduced cooldowns. Or and a far off one add a replinishment effect like frost has.

[tommystep]

i like that haste idea ^_^

[Linek]

The confusion with that personally is now with the alteration to what each attacks chance to proc Missile Barrage is does arcane benefit more from Crit now than Haste. I had geared Haste>Crit till now and I have not dropped more than 100 dps total and hit harder. Anyone able to enlighten upon that problem? Now onto that Haste buff. Say give us an trait like Frost has with Icy Veins but lower it some and then allow it to effect the entire raid. Like a shammy's Bloodlust or Heroism whichever you call it. Hmmm or maybe (FAR OP) an ability to command our Mirror Images and give them Arcane Blast as well which in turn adds to our current count. Now that would be AWESOME! Imo

[Hephastis]

no.

/end thread

[Mipsy]

yes. and I'll venture as far as to say that mages should be the only class with the 5% crit debuff. I would be our bloodlust, if you will.

just give it to each spec so we aren't suckered into playing something we don't like, as we are currently.

maybe tie it in with arcane barrage so we use that more, since it's dying more and more each content patch

[Hephastis]

yes. and I'll venture as far as to say that mages should be the only class with the 5% crit debuff. I would be our bloodlust, if you will.

just give it to each spec so we aren't suckered into playing something we don't like, as we are currently.

maybe tie it in with arcane barrage so we use that more, since it's dying more and more each content patch

Fail post. All of it.

Bloodlust benefits the entire raid. Fail.
We are not suckered into playing anything right now. Arcane and Fire are both equally viable specs. Fail.
Arcane Barrage is fine. For trash mobs you dont have time to release a 4 stack AM proc, you done waste the 4 stack and throw a ABarr instead. Its totally usefull and completely still "alive". Fail.

[tommystep]

Fail post. All of it.

Bloodlust benefits the entire raid. Fail.
We are not suckered into playing anything right now. Arcane and Fire are both equally viable specs. Fail.
Arcane Barrage is fine. For trash mobs you dont have time to release a 4 stack AM proc, you done waste the 4 stack and throw a ABarr instead. Its totally usefull and completely still "alive". Fail.

but they are both not viable because arcane doesnt bring a crit buff like other mage specs.

[Shawaam]

Arcane gets raid utility in the next patch. In my opinion, scorch would need a buff. Why have fire mages have to SACRIFICE dps to buff the raid? Demo/affliction warlocks get the crit buff from their regular shadowbolt spam. Frost mages gets it from their regular frostbolt spam. Mages have to either sacrifice a glyph or spam scorch on every single new target.

[Jexar]

Fail post. All of it.

Bloodlust benefits the entire raid. Fail.
We are not suckered into playing anything right now. Arcane and Fire are both equally viable specs. Fail.
Arcane Barrage is fine. For trash mobs you dont have time to release a 4 stack AM proc, you done waste the 4 stack and throw a ABarr instead. Its totally usefull and completely still "alive". Fail.

fail

[Hephastis]

fail

Notice how I explained WHY the post I was calling a fail was a fail? Yea....you should try it....

[Dedweight]

Ya i did read them and that "buff" is totally useless in 25 mans. Ret pally?

I think you mean BM hunters, Ret Paladins don't have a 3% damage increase for the raid, only 3% haste aura and a 3% crit debuff.

[secret]

nah dont think we need a buff like that for arcane,if some want it get warlock or spec

[tommystep]

I think you mean BM hunters, Ret Paladins don't have a 3% damage increase for the raid, only 3% haste aura and a 3% crit debuff.

Ret pallys do give 3% dmg tot he raid --->

Sanctified Retribution Rank 1

Increases the damage caused by Retribution Aura by 50% and all damage caused by friendly targets affected by any of your Auras is increased by 3%.