Prot build - questions

[shiftynou]

Take this one :

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...nl_9eYb,,10522

Divinity is pretty weak, don't take it.
Benediction is not needed.
Reckoning is bad.

Vindication is awesome.
Pursuit of Justice is awesome.
Divine Guardian is nice if you know how to use it.
Crusade is a nice threat talent.

My build is the same except for a slight change, which is: take the points from Benediction and Conviction and fill out Imp. Might. Your physical dps will appreciate this in the smaller, 5 and 10 man raids where a Ret Paladin or DPS Warrior are not present.

[Nillo]

My build is the same except for a slight change, which is: take the points from Benediction and Conviction and fill out Imp. Might. Your physical dps will appreciate this in the smaller, 5 and 10 man raids where a Ret Paladin or DPS Warrior are not present.

Yep forgot to mention that possibility in my first post (but I already mentioned it in this post)

Nillo, considering how high your defense rating and armor are right now, I think you'd be better off using the Austere Earthsiege Diamond. More HP and smaller hits taken would be a big buff to your overall survivability, imo.

I know that, but I'm waiting for a new helm :P

[Bullen]

You'll find that the Righteous Defense glyph will mostly be wasted. The badge tanking gear is absolutely LOADED with hit (I had 301 hit at one point in just badge gear).

Uhm.... taunts work on spell hit, which is... 17%? So... 301 hit is not nearly enough without the glyph if you want to avoid missing every now and then.

[shiftynou]

Yep forgot to mention that possibility in my first post (but I already mentioned it in this post)

Oops, just noticed the post that you're referring to. Cheers.

[redmund]

Your point about taunt hit is valid for raid bosses, where the chance to miss is 17%. The OP stated he was focusing on heroics for now, where the max level mob is level 82 and therefore has a 6% chance to be missed. Also, taunts are very very rarely necessary in a 5 man if you're doing your job properly.

[arel00]

Don't worry about Taunts hitting too much tbh. With two different taunts (and the glyph, if necessary) it's extremely rare to fail a tank switch.

[Evereghalo]

You specced Divinity and Conviction (they're not really useful) and skipped Vindication/Pursuit of Justice/Divine Guardian.
I really don't think sacrificing strong utility talents for tiny dps/survival upgrades is worth it.

The problem is your imposing your own views on someone else.

In a 25man raid why the fuck would you have a tank bring abilities 4 other classes in the raid can bring.


If your gonna just do heroic, go for a high threat build,

If your gonna off tank in raids, go for some high utility talents,

If your gonna be main taking raids, then go for a good combination of the two.

[Nillo]

1) In a 25man raid why the fuck would you have a tank bring abilities 4 other classes in the raid can bring.

2)If your gonna just do heroic, go for a high threat build,

3)If your gonna off tank in raids, go for some high utility talents,

4) If your gonna be main taking raids, then go for a good combination of the two.

Explained this a countless times:

1) Yes JotJ is a talent that every single tank can apply, but for the 1000000000000 time you can't guarantee it's up all the time if you're tankin several mobs.
For Vindication there is only a single class that doesn't sacrifice anything significant - a ret Paladin, both warriors and druids need 5 talent points in a talent they wouldn't take and have to use rage/gcd to keep up the debuff, that could be used in a better way.

2) the only thing you can add to my build is that crappy 6% crit you have - wow.

3) indeed

4) Why would picking a useless 6% crit and not picking -ap and - attackspeed be a combination of those two

PS: your spec is just plain retarded as 2 points in SotP >>>>>>>>>>> 2 points in crit.

[Iselian]

Since you're focusing on 5 mans for now, I'd avoid both Vindication and Judgements of the Just. They're really just not necessary for any 5 mans. Take those points, and drop them in Conviction for more fun and a bit more dps in your heroics.

*puts on XT voice* No no no no no no no! *clears throat*
-Tanks have two primary purposes in the game: 1) Make lots of threat, 2) Take little damage. Judgements of the Just and Vindication reduce damage taken. A lot. Even in heroics. Make your healers happy, take them. Always, for every content, at level 65, 75, 85, for 10mans, 25mans, 40mans, whenever. Always take them.

For my own build, I too am 3/5 Divinity. I just recently dropped Divine Sacrifice from my ret build as well. Having seen the information confirming that its usefulness has dropped off significantly since it was "fixed", it is no longer a must have talent. Since tanking is my offspec, I often find myself tanking in situations where my gear is not as strong as I, or my healers, would like it to me. Every bit of bonus healing that I can get is welcomed in those situations. I am mostly referring to ToGC encounters when one of our tanks is unavailable.

I've found that it does indeed cap (unlike before) but sometimes it will spill over the cap. Shh, don't tell Blizzard. As to when to use it...

Divine Sacrifice might find more use in TotGC than ever before. Most notably on the greatest initial hurdle, beasts.
-For Gormokk, you can bubble yourself to eliminate a grilling bleed while also providing a 30% buffer for your other two tanks (the current and the other bleeding). You lose your ability to shield wall but providing a cooldown for 2 others seems reasonable enough of a tradeoff. If nothing else, ask for a pain suppression later on.
-On Worms it is generally a bad idea, unless you have tank #3 pick up your worm for a moment and you raidwall again. Could be handy to slip in when a caster is picked for burning bile.
-On Icehowl you have 2 other tanks who can hold him while you raidwall once more (certainly possible, especially with 4pc t9) to lighten the blow a stunned tank takes and/or the damage the raid takes from a breath.

On Jaraxxus it can be nice to use as an offtank. As a main tank, obviously you'd be shield walling instead. On Champions it's good if you're prot. On Twins it won't be used. On Anub it won't be, unless your adds are focused first and you have a brief moment to use it, in which case you could prevent some major healing to Anub.

Raidwall/DSac/"Oh God save the raid" is still useful. It's a little trickier to use but it can be amazing when done just right. Emphasis on Gormok. Divine Guardian may not be the greatest talent since Blessing of Kings, but going 2/5 Divinity and 1/1 Divine Sacrifice can be perfect. (Other choices for 2 points being DG, Imp HoJ, or Reckoning as fillers to the deeper tiers)

Wall of text crits you for over 9000.

[Evereghalo]

Explained this a countless times:

1) Yes JotJ is a talent that every single tank can apply, but for the 1000000000000 time you can't guarantee it's up all the time if you're tankin several mobs.
For Vindication there is only a single class that doesn't sacrifice anything significant - a ret Paladin, both warriors and druids need 5 talent points in a talent they wouldn't take and have to use rage/gcd to keep up the debuff, that could be used in a better way.

2) the only thing you can add to my build is that crappy 6% crit you have - wow.

3) indeed

4) Why would picking a useless 6% crit and not picking -ap and - attackspeed be a combination of those two

PS: your spec is just plain retarded as 2 points in SotP >>>>>>>>>>> 2 points in crit.

DK, Feral Druid, Enhance shaman, dont need JotJ because its the most usless of the swingspeed debuffs,

2 ret paladins, 2 fury warriors, 1 arms warrior, and our feral druid, yea no need to get the AP debuff.

You have to have some of the worst fucking raiders in the game to not be able to keep those debuffs on the boss, srsly.

[cappytoi]

DK, Feral Druid, Enhance shaman, dont need JotJ because its the most usless of the swingspeed debuffs,

2 ret paladins, 2 fury warriors, 1 arms warrior, and our feral druid, yea no need to get the AP debuff.

You have to have some of the worst fucking raiders in the game to not be able to keep those debuffs on the boss, srsly.

if you can get those from your raid members and you are 100% sure you'll have those with 100% uptime of course you'll not specced into it. but you can't blame people not to trust others and different situations and wanting give these debuffs themselves and of course you can't wait every1 to have the same exact spec and raid setup with yours.

[Nillo]

DK, Feral Druid, Enhance shaman, dont need JotJ because its the most usless of the swingspeed debuffs,

2 ret paladins, 2 fury warriors, 1 arms warrior, and our feral druid, yea no need to get the AP debuff.

You have to have some of the worst fucking raiders in the game to not be able to keep those debuffs on the boss, srsly.

Enhance Shamans only have 10% afaik.

Still wonder why warriors would waste talent points on that. And yes I also have lots of rets in my raid but there is absolutely no way that even if the situations, where they won't do the debuffs for you, are few in 25 mans there is absolutely no way that 2% crit would be needed at all.

Just to give you an example: Was tanking together with our Warrior MT, after Vindication was changed, he was like "wtf why is my demo shout gone", explained to him that I need to do shit to keep it up and he was like "cool saves me the trouble of wasting rage/gcds on a non skilled debuff". Seriously if you think 2% crit is better than saving your warrior/feral tank the trouble to keep it up, you're doing it wrong. You're probably just one of those 1500 dps paladins that loose threat to anybody and that's why you feel like you need wtf 2%/4%/6% more crit.

TL;DR you're just selfish and ignorant to the fact that you need to be able to debuff bosses yourself.

[Ruak]

Totally agree with Nillo.
Ok, the raid dps will increase more with you having 2% more crit as a tank, rather than 4 of your raidmembers spending their global cooldowns on dmg abilities rather than shouts and such? Plain pathetic, sorry.


Anyway, while you were advising the guy for specs and glyphs in heroics. Three words:
SEAL OF COMMAND!

Spend a point into it, get the HotR glyph for 4 targets, maybe go for the glyph of SoComm (not a must, but with 3,5k+ BV you kinda don't take dmg) and enjoy