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  1. #21

    Re: Eoy from Ensidia didnt make the HM's.. Here's why!!

    Quote Originally Posted by darkthunder
    Read part of the blog post, and from what I can tell:

    A shadowpriest (Hybrid) is pissed that a mage (Pure) is out-dpsing him.
    Hybrid vs Pure is meant to be 5%, not so much that top guilds won't even consider taking them.
    2k dps more for a harder, more complex rotation doesn't justify pure vs hybrid.
    Brooding.

  2. #22

    Re: Eoy from Ensidia didnt make the HM's.. Here's why!!

    Read part of the blog post, and from what I can tell:

    A shadowpriest (Hybrid) is pissed that a mage (Pure) is out-dpsing him.
    you dont play Spriest, dont you? :

  3. #23

    Re: Eoy from Ensidia didnt make the HM's.. Here's why!!

    Well, on the ptr, mind flay yard range was increased. I think they might change the glyph to increase shadow's dps. Maybe not by alot, but it's something. Of course, this is just a guess though :P.

  4. #24

    Re: Eoy from Ensidia didnt make the HM's.. Here's why!!

    They are apparently changing it to a glyph allowing SW:P to scale with haste, by reducing the duration and the time between ticks by your haste.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  5. #25
    Dreadlord
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    Re: Eoy from Ensidia didnt make the HM's.. Here's why!!

    I understand that people are upset about Shadow Priest DPS not being in line with other hybrids, this much is true and I don't think anyone but GC disagrees with it. The thing I don't understand is why people are upset that top guilds are bringing only one Shadow Priest. This is exactly what I'd expect. There's 10 classes which means you bring 2.5 of each class on average. Considering most guilds bring at least one Discipline Priest and one Holy Priest, bringing one Shadow Priest already puts Priests "over budget". By making guilds want to bring more than one, they're effectively pushing another class out of the raid. So, while I agree that a quality Shadow Priest shouldn't be sat simply because they can't keep up with DPS, I don't think the "top guilds are only bringing one Shadow Priest" is a useful argument. If, however, it were that top guilds were bringing none, then I would agree, but that doesn't seem to be the case, even from what Eoy is saying.

    Similarly, I think the changes to Mind Flay and Shadow Word: Pain could do a lot to help with scaling. Since it looks like the changes will make SW:P tick faster with Haste, and because it is auto-refreshed, it looks like this change to scale better with Haste will be a direct buff to Shadow Priest DPS without having to make any changes to your rotation. Of course, the value of this change heavily depends on whether Haste changes will be updated on refresh like SP so that things like Heroism and various other Haste buffs affect it. So really, I think a lot of the apocalyptic thoughts about SPriest DPS should wait until someone has done some theorycrafting on this change.

  6. #26
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Re: Eoy from Ensidia didnt make the HM's.. Here's why!!

    I'm not even in a top guild, and we don't bring any shadow priests. We have 3 priests, 2 are holy and 1 (myself) is discipline.

    If we end up with too many healers, my dualspec is shadow, which is the only time we have one.

    I actually am kind of glad that shadow scaling at present is not fantastic. It gives me a good indicator on our damage meters of which DPSers are pulling thie r weight and which are in need of improvement.

    I do hope they fix it in 3.3, or even in Cataclysm somehow. Haste to DoT scaling would not only make shadow DPS viable, but affliction would be more than just a "new gimmick" DPS tree.

    As for Ensidia and only bringing one shadow priest, they are a world top 5 guild. Eoy can't possibly expect them to bring ANY class for ANYthing more than their "utility or fight contribution". They're the equivalent of a small business, and raid progression is said business. Honestly, even if shadow was pushing 7-8k DPS, they'd still probably only bring one because the buffs outside of VE don't stack with anything.

  7. #27
    Scarab Lord Izenhart's Avatar
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    Re: Eoy from Ensidia didnt make the HM's.. Here's why!!

    t10 4p bonus set for spriest is dpshammer of doom

  8. #28

    Re: Eoy from Ensidia didnt make the HM's.. Here's why!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuq
    I understand that people are upset about Shadow Priest DPS not being in line with other hybrids, this much is true and I don't think anyone but GC disagrees with it. The thing I don't understand is why people are upset that top guilds are bringing only one Shadow Priest. This is exactly what I'd expect. There's 10 classes which means you bring 2.5 of each class on average. Considering most guilds bring at least one Discipline Priest and one Holy Priest, bringing one Shadow Priest already puts Priests "over budget". By making guilds want to bring more than one, they're effectively pushing another class out of the raid. So, while I agree that a quality Shadow Priest shouldn't be sat simply because they can't keep up with DPS, I don't think the "top guilds are only bringing one Shadow Priest" is a useful argument. If, however, it were that top guilds were bringing none, then I would agree, but that doesn't seem to be the case, even from what Eoy is saying.

    Similarly, I think the changes to Mind Flay and Shadow Word: Pain could do a lot to help with scaling. Since it looks like the changes will make SW:P tick faster with Haste, and because it is auto-refreshed, it looks like this change to scale better with Haste will be a direct buff to Shadow Priest DPS without having to make any changes to your rotation. Of course, the value of this change heavily depends on whether Haste changes will be updated on refresh like SP so that things like Heroism and various other Haste buffs affect it. So really, I think a lot of the apocalyptic thoughts about SPriest DPS should wait until someone has done some theorycrafting on this change.
    numbers put the dps increase at 1-2%, so they're still behind every other class in dps and offer little utility

    they are still the worst spec in the game at what they're meant to do and they're not predicting that 1 spriest will be in 25s, they're predicting that NO spriests will be in 25s. there is already enough of a disparity that there is NO REASON to take an spriest even now in togc

  9. #29

    Re: Eoy from Ensidia didnt make the HM's.. Here's why!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Izenhart
    t10 4p bonus set for spriest is dpshammer of doom
    4pc bonus makes mind flay the worst main-nuke in the game, which it already owns the title of

  10. #30

    Re: Eoy from Ensidia didnt make the HM's.. Here's why!!

    The whole hybrid vs pure shit is annoying. Shadowpriests suck and I will reroll sooner or later. Luckily I'm in a casual guild that does hardmodes in 10-mans only, and the spirit of "take the player, not the class" is still alive within us, as I always get a spot. That said, I myself have a feeling that I'd contribute more to the run, had I chosen a different class. A warlock for example. Or even a boomkin.

  11. #31

    Re: Eoy from Ensidia didnt make the HM's.. Here's why!!

    Guys; 25 raid spots; means you ideally bring 25 speccs; every time you bring 2 of same specc 1 specc is left out of raid. 1 shadow priest is taken to raids is just enough. There are at least 1 sometimes 2 holy priests in raids and 1 disc priest; so 1 shadow priest is just about enough. Why would we stack spriests? End up with no mage at all?

  12. #32

    Re: Eoy from Ensidia didnt make the HM's.. Here's why!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Freyros
    The whole hybrid vs pure shit is annoying. Shadowpriests suck and I will reroll sooner or later. Luckily I'm in a casual guild that does hardmodes in 10-mans only, and the spirit of "take the player, not the class" is still alive within us, as I always get a spot. That said, I myself have a feeling that I'd contribute more to the run, had I chosen a different class. A warlock for example. Or even a boomkin.
    I'm with ya... I raid on my Ele shammy... I'm leveling a Rogue for the day they either give another class Heroism/Bloodlust or they make Drums of Heroism. They make drums of heroism... I'm switching.

    Ele Shammies and Shadow Priests are really in the same boat, so I feel your pain. Craptastic itemization, no talent scaling, tremendous mobility penalties (we're worse off), weak main nukes (you're worse off, tho when my Lava Burst crits for as low as 7k when I raid with 3203 SP raid buffed, I wanna argue that point...) and a host of other issues... it's hard. The worst part is we keep getting the old "It's all better in Cataclysm" as if it weren't actually gonna be released in November of 2010 or thereabouts.

    Oh well... I appreciate the VT and Misery, even if other folks won't say it.

    Btw... in ICC... there are areas... with RIDICULOUS amounts of trash, from what I understand.... I think mind sear will be the envy of the AoE'ers come ICC. I know that must be why the designers are buffing Ele with Fire Nova... on all our fire totems... plus if you follow the description of the walkthrough.... spells lots of dmg.

    Just a lil something positive...

  13. #33

    Re: Eoy from Ensidia didnt make the HM's.. Here's why!!

    Our Ele Shaman is always in the top 5 so i Dont know what your doing^^ (we have anub 25hm down)

    Guys; 25 raid spots; means you ideally bring 25 speccs; every time you bring 2 of same specc 1 specc is left out of raid. 1 shadow priest is taken to raids is just enough. There are at least 1 sometimes 2 holy priests in raids and 1 disc priest; so 1 shadow priest is just about enough. Why would we stack spriests? End up with no mage at all?
    That is true 1 Shadow ist enough but ensidia had always 3 coz they are good players and had to "kick" 2 of them out because the dmg is not good enough. you can raid with 2 rets if you have 2 good one coz their dmg is in the right place, so u failed the topic by miles...

  14. #34

    Re: Eoy from Ensidia didnt make the HM's.. Here's why!!

    You guys really can't be shocked. You have been Blizzard's bitch for 5 years. No class has ever been "balanced" as much as priests INCLUDING death knights.

    The biggest problem is the player base thinks you are absolutely pointless now. They think you should have rolled an actual class that can actually dps. Its more of the way that spriests are viewed in the community that creates the imbalance that they are.
    I used to be hardcore, then I discovered how fun it is to get laid on an almost daily basis. I'll take sex over WoW any day, so now I'm casual.

  15. #35

    Re: Eoy from Ensidia didnt make the HM's.. Here's why!!

    What about the guild that got world first? They HAD SHADOW PRIESTS! Those shadow priests came DAMN NEAR THE TOP on some fights. Perhaps Ensidia should just give it up and move on.
    I used to be hardcore, then I discovered how fun it is to get laid on an almost daily basis. I'll take sex over WoW any day, so now I'm casual.

  16. #36

    Re: Eoy from Ensidia didnt make the HM's.. Here's why!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daez
    What about the guild that got world first? They HAD SHADOW PRIESTS! Those shadow priests came DAMN NEAR THE TOP on some fights. Perhaps Ensidia should just give it up and move on.
    uhhh, the only DPS charts i saw had the one spriest just above tanks, below all other hybrids.

    saw 2 parses from 2 different guilds who got world firsts in togc

    saw priests at around 6-7k, which was 2-3k below the top

  17. #37

    Re: Eoy from Ensidia didnt make the HM's.. Here's why!!

    Shadow is a sup par spec. As long as a good amount people raid as shadow they won’t care so much. Do raids still bring shadow priests? yes So what do they care if they are one of the better classes? They don’t. I've dealt with blizzards retard methods and their idea of class balance that has changed 4 times now.

    I've learned that if you want fair treatment, play the flavor of the patch or just accept the fact that you won’t be great. I'm tired of playing a class that is innately broke. S priest don’t scale well, so I never bothered to play them. Why get frustrated when I knew I was going to suck later?

    I've been turned into one of those players that only play what is considered OP or rather non-broke classesw/e you want to refer to them as, not because I don’t like other classes (my favorite pvp class is boomkin but I don’t play my druid seriously) or that I have to win all the time but because I dislike having a few things about my class that I can do nothing to fix (like get other types of gear or gem differently so I am the same as everybody else). I switched to hord just because the alliance racials sucked. It bugged the hell out of me that undead versions of the classes i played could beat certain classes because they had that anti-fear racial. Do you know how easy it was to beat a priest as a rogue in classic before the pvp trinket was invented?

    Anyways, until Spriest get fully fixed I would not hold your breath for anything other than band aid upgrades. There are core things that need to be fixed or changed.

    When people say "pls" just because its shorter then "please", I feel totally justified to say "No" just because its shorter then "Yes".

  18. #38

    Re: Eoy from Ensidia didnt make the HM's.. Here's why!!

    While the issue is unfortunate, I don't know any guild that brings more than one shadow priest in the raid.

  19. #39

    Re: Eoy from Ensidia didnt make the HM's.. Here's why!!

    The icing on the cake is really the fact that Blizzard goes on and on about wanting real numbers, and not just QQ posts.


    Then when we throw them REAL numbers that clearly show Shadow Priests being at the bottom of the charts in almost all fights, they turn around and tell us that they don't agree, and that we're "fine".


    THEN, they come out of no where and say that they're making our dots become affected by haste, but make it very clear that this isn't to "Fix Shadow"

    Seriously?

    It's not the fact that Shadow Priests have been taking blizzard's BS for over 5 years now.

    It's not the fact that they refuse to acknowledge the proof we provide them.

    It's the fact that when they are presented numbers, they take those numbers, work on our buffs, and then act like they've known all along that we needed help. They don't even acknowledge the fact that the f**king players are basically doing half of their god damned job!

    The fact that in the panels, they admitted that they take a lot of data from forums like elitist jerks is downright scary! I mean do they have ANYONE in that building that knows how class numbers work?!

    It's mind boggling.

    80 Kingslayer Shadow Priest - Spirestone
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...e&n=Direshadow

  20. #40
    Elemental Lord Noomz's Avatar
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    Re: Eoy from Ensidia didnt make the HM's.. Here's why!!

    Quote Originally Posted by MushroomBomb
    whilst other classes have improved greatly. Hell, we're not even the only ones with this problem,

    Read that and think again.

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