View Poll Results: Is a tankadin's extra survivability worth gearing up my pally over my warrior?

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  • Naw, wawrriors rule!

    21 53.85%
  • Yes, the light gives me strength!

    18 46.15%
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  1. #1

    Gear my tankadin or stay with warrior?

    Due to Real Life I can't commit to a regular raid schedule, so I've been working on MTing my way through pug raids. I'm cleared everything up to Auriya in Uldaman (failed due to dodgy heals and retarded DPS) and with better heals managed to make it through to Twin Valkyries in ToC10. I'm pretty happy with my warrior overall but at the same time, I can see so many times when it wouldn't have been a wipe if I'd had Ardent Defender. The way I see it:

    Warrior:
    -10% Damage Taken (Def. Stance)
    +6% Stamina (Vitality)
    +Shield Wall
    +Last Stand

    Paladin:
    -12% Damage Taken(!) (Imp. Righteous Fury + Shield of the Templar + Sanc.)
    -6% Spell Damage Taken
    +11% Heals Taken (!)
    +14% Stamina (!)
    + Ardent Defender (!) (~+10% effective health plus automatic antiwipe)
    + Divine Sacrifice/Guardian
    + Divine Protection
    + More Threat
    + 30sec 3-target taunt

    Compared to Warrior, Paladin has:
    -2% Damage Taken
    +11% Heals
    +8% Stamina
    +10% Effective Health
    +Get-out-of-slow-heals-free Card

    That all makes me go "wow, why am I tanking on my warrior?". So before starting to invest some time in his gear (3rd 80, currently fresh-80 tank gear but decent ret gear so no problem getting heroics) I'm asking for your input. Is it worth the hassle of re-gearing? My warrior's tank set is OK but nothing out of the ordinary, ~32k health.
    Ultralisk-Nagrand / Táne-Nagrand / Wuggles-Nagrand / Koras-Thaurrisan / Dieselsun-Thaurissan / Bezoar-Thaurissan

  2. #2

    Re: Gear my tankadin or stay with warrior?

    Just saying. flavour of the month m8. Just stick with the warrior man. Some months paladins will be the best tanks. The next it might be Dk´s and next maybe warriors.

  3. #3

    Re: Gear my tankadin or stay with warrior?

    Quote Originally Posted by aldarion
    Just saying. flavour of the month m8. Just stick with the warrior man. Some months paladins will be the best tanks. The next it might be Dk´s and next maybe warriors.
    I hear you on this one. For instance, I've stuck with my rogue for PvP despite several nerfs (and now buffs/fixes yay! :P ) because I like the style. I'm just looking at it and saying wow... even if the blatantly OP'd Ardent Defender was completely removed, +8% stam and +11 to healing received are enough to swing the balance, not to mention far superior threat.

    Meh, maybe 3.3 will bring a survivability buff for warriors to bring us back in line. :P
    Ultralisk-Nagrand / Táne-Nagrand / Wuggles-Nagrand / Koras-Thaurrisan / Dieselsun-Thaurissan / Bezoar-Thaurissan

  4. #4

    Re: Gear my tankadin or stay with warrior?

    Warriors:
    + gun slot for extra stats
    + Sunders for extra phys dps for the raid
    +/- Shield wall / last stand / enraged regen / shield block vs bubble wall / lay on hands / ardent defender
    + stuns / interrupts

    I have both a pally and a warr tank and imho both have their pros and cons, if you think that you'd be a better tank when playing the other class compared to your own, it simply means that you fail on whichever you picked or simply don't understand what your tank is good at.

  5. #5

    Re: Gear my tankadin or stay with warrior?

    Stance modifiers for pallys is 0,15 btw, you forgot the -3% DP glyph, which ofc should be used.

    On topic: Have them both, once youre tanking in one class, you very often find yourself loving tanking so much, that you just can get enough of it. As everyone says here, there is pros and cons for every choice you make, and it's two very different ways of tanking.

    My main is a mage, but my ridicoulos good geared alt prot pally tanked BoN hc 25 yesterday, due to yet again disconnects on the tanks. And we killed it. Even though my main is a mage, I find tanking 100% more fun, more advanced, and wished I could change my mains ages ago.
    If its called Tourist season, why can't I shoot at them?

  6. #6

    Re: Gear my tankadin or stay with warrior?

    You greatly greatly overestimate paladins. For one, warriors have higher threat.

    It's like comparing a swiss army knife with a machete. One cuts better...but one can do so much more. That paladin can't stun, kite, pretty much anything other than tank as well as the warrior.
    Nom Nom Nom [NNF] (2 points) - When you Ferocious Bite a target at or below 25% health, you have a 50/100% chance to instantly refresh the duration of your Rip on the target.

  7. #7

    Re: Gear my tankadin or stay with warrior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonberry
    You greatly greatly overestimate paladins. For one, warriors have higher threat.
    Agree with this, warrior threat is not really falling behind paladins as long as you know what you are doing, you can actually out-threat an equally geared paladin (this also depends on fights tho). Playing a warrior takes a bit more attention with procs using your cooldowns etc., where as playing a paladin tank mostly consists of keeping up your 9/6 rotation and you still have a 1 button viable cd (excluding trinkets). Warriors have good advantages on keeping aoe threat on many mobs (talking about more than 4-5 mobs) with shockwave and thunderclap, also making warrior a bit more dynamic and also don't forget an aoe -dmg debuff + you may have your taunt ready everytime you want on aoe situations if you have another tank getting hitted by something, where as paladins have only consecration for many mobs and your movement area is very small compared to warrior. Like people said before, they both have pros and cons on some situations but I don't think it is really worth to reroll.

  8. #8

    Re: Gear my tankadin or stay with warrior?

    If you have the time to spend to level and gear your paladin, just do so.
    Ardent Defender is completely op at the moment (it was so fascinating, as we switched our MTs on Northrend Beasts HM to second spec second equip paladins (we don't have a main prot paladin), and killed them the same evening after wiping three weeks with our warrior/feral tanks). Any other tank will die from a ~30k impale followed by a ~20k melee hit, for a paladin thats 30k+16k, and that usually doesn't even proc the "anti-wipe" part of AD.

    Threat, spellinterrupts, debuffing...of course thats an issue, too. But to be honest: When did you wipe last because the tank lost aggro? Even at Hodir HM thats no major problem anymore. And interrupting and debuffing can be done by other classes as well.

    But as the game changes, the classes change too. So you can bet there's either a major nerf coming for paladins, or a major buff for the other tankclasses. The question is only when.


  9. #9

    Re: Gear my tankadin or stay with warrior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puri
    If you have the time to spend to level and gear your paladin, just do so.
    Ardent Defender is completely op at the moment (it was so fascinating, as we switched our MTs on Northrend Beasts HM to second spec second equip paladins (we don't have a main prot paladin), and killed them the same evening after wiping three weeks with our warrior/feral tanks). Any other tank will die from a ~30k impale followed by a ~20k melee hit, for a paladin thats 30k+16k, and that usually doesn't even proc the "anti-wipe" part of AD.
    this is just a bit interesting because ferals can use their barkskin and save that last impale, also warriors can use their shield block, trinkets, last stand, shield wall for the last impale (choose whichever you need). this is mostly because your tanks are not aware what they need to do imo, a paladin doesn't need to pop a cd for it because of the class design atm, this doesn't mean other tanks just stand and watch how they can die at that time.

  10. #10

    Re: Gear my tankadin or stay with warrior?

    class design my ass.. I can die just as fast as another tanking class can and oh boi AD heals some crap amount that ticks off so damn fast. Don't blame Paladins because the mechanics of the fight are kicking your ass. Stay with teh Warrior. Trust me we are Fotm atm until DK's get the damn spotlight again.
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  11. #11

    Re: Gear my tankadin or stay with warrior?

    ardent defender is ZOMGFUCKINGOVERPOWERED.
    i'm a tankadin (my guild was EU 100 in ulduar), but our tanking officier is a warrior (he's that since vanilla), still, he had to step down the other long-time warrior here for me multiple times, due to plain out superior mitigation/eh.
    Still, it's gonna get NERFED. remember that.

  12. #12

    Re: Gear my tankadin or stay with warrior?

    AD was buffed like that to make all the billion Belfs stop doing dps or holy and role prot. We asked them to fix the talent and they did that to balance the tanking population. Once it evens out(whcih isn't happening) they will nerf it to non existence.

    Only thing AD does is let you know you are undergeared, a debuff is not up and a someone screwed up, or your healers need to and get regeared. If it was such easy mode then these world first guilds would have been re-rolling because you could get stuff so much faster.
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    What has been made by QQ can be unmade by QQ!!!

  13. #13

    Re: Gear my tankadin or stay with warrior?

    OK, I should clarify a little - I love my warrior. I love the playstyle, I've played warriors since vanilla (top dps on Magmadar with Hakkar'i Warblades YAH BABY). I quite like paladin tanking but if both were equal I'd choose warrior.

    The reason I'm thinking of swapping to paladin is survivability, pure and simple. And I'm guessing most of that is due to AD. 10% effective health is crazy overpowered even without the cheat death-esque proc. It irritates me to see a death knight or pally with similar gear to me tank ToC bosses without breaking a sweat while I get freaking pounded and I'm only alive due to excellent heals (or, contrariwise, we're all dead because heals were pugged and not quite excellent).

    It's also not a matter of levelling - my pally is at 80 with a naxx25-ish level ret and healing sets, and he's picked up a fair few lvl200 prot pieces and has the lvl226 conquest gloves, so it wouldn't take more than a couple of weeks to get him up to heroic-farming level.
    Ultralisk-Nagrand / Táne-Nagrand / Wuggles-Nagrand / Koras-Thaurrisan / Dieselsun-Thaurissan / Bezoar-Thaurissan

  14. #14

    Re: Gear my tankadin or stay with warrior?

    Quote Originally Posted by cappytoi
    this is just a bit interesting because ferals can use their barkskin and save that last impale, also warriors can use their shield block, trinkets, last stand, shield wall for the last impale (choose whichever you need). this is mostly because your tanks are not aware what they need to do imo, a paladin doesn't need to pop a cd for it because of the class design atm, this doesn't mean other tanks just stand and watch how they can die at that time.
    Well, you just said it: They can use it for "the last impale". But there is no last impale, he is doing it every 30s, barkskin has 1 minute cd and thats the least from all the CDs you have named.
    Of course it is possible to kill them, you can also use external buffs like paladins sacrifice, Guardian Angel, Pain Suppression etc...so no doubt there. The point is: A paladin doesn't need them, or at least does not have to count on them. And even if you make mistakes (forget to pop that CD etc.), a paladin has a "one-time-fail-insurance". And thats why prot paladins are so overpowered right now.

  15. #15

    Re: Gear my tankadin or stay with warrior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralisk
    OK, I should clarify a little - I love my warrior. I love the playstyle, I've played warriors since vanilla (top dps on Magmadar with Hakkar'i Warblades YAH BABY). I quite like paladin tanking but if both were equal I'd choose warrior.
    then you shouldn't bother. rolling a class because it is overpowered at that moment won't make you happy at the future. stay with the class you love.

  16. #16

    Re: Gear my tankadin or stay with warrior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puri
    Well, you just said it: They can use it for "the last impale". But there is no last impale, he is doing it every 30s, barkskin has 1 minute cd and thats the least from all the CDs you have named.
    Of course it is possible to kill them, you can also use external buffs like paladins sacrifice, Guardian Angel, Pain Suppression etc...so no doubt there. The point is: A paladin doesn't need them, or at least does not have to count on them. And even if you make mistakes (forget to pop that CD etc.), a paladin has a "one-time-fail-insurance". And thats why prot paladins are so overpowered right now.
    you can't really get killed with the 2nd stack of impale (with 4th buff stack on boss) unless you are undergeared, even you can take a 2nd and 3rd stack of impale with same cd (reckon shield wall lasts 12 sec, barkskin lasts 12 sec). for your point, i already stated before (in another topic) that ardent defender's passive oh-crap-i-failed cd is a failure from exactly what you are talking about, it solved the need of another cd but it also made paladin tanking a little bit more facerolling. but tbh, if you think that is really overpowered could say that i tanked beasts hc in 2 different guilds, the guild i had been before my AD was proccing everytime (my gear was a bit lower tho, around 38k hp), and i recently tanked it and my AD didn't proc once. I tanked Anub hc 25, my AD never procced (unless a wipe called). so I can say this is all about gear and the healers behind you; if your healers suck, sorry you can't really do anything except to use your cds or wait a miracle to stay alive.

  17. #17

    Re: Gear my tankadin or stay with warrior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultralisk

    The reason I'm thinking of swapping to paladin is survivability, pure and simple. And I'm guessing most of that is due to AD. 10% effective health is crazy overpowered even without the cheat death-esque proc.
    It's 7%.

  18. #18

    Re: Gear my tankadin or stay with warrior?

    Quote Originally Posted by iglocska
    It's 7%.
    It's (35% / 80%) - 35% = 25%*35% = 8,75%
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  19. #19
    Dreadlord Sellest's Avatar
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    Re: Gear my tankadin or stay with warrior?

    Play what you like more...

    this guy: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ane&n=Wreckles rerolled paladin http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ne&n=Wrecklees when he heard about changes to paladins with 3.2 and though warrior will be obsolete.

    My friend who has tankadin made warrior alt, leveled it to 80 and he loves it. He quit his paladin at all and playing warrior because of playstyle.

    Here you can see 2 totaly different scenarios by different players.

    Return to first row in my post and decide

  20. #20

    Re: Gear my tankadin or stay with warrior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puri
    Well, you just said it: They can use it for "the last impale". But there is no last impale, he is doing it every 30s, barkskin has 1 minute cd and thats the least from all the CDs you have named.
    Of course it is possible to kill them, you can also use external buffs like paladins sacrifice, Guardian Angel, Pain Suppression etc...so no doubt there. The point is: A paladin doesn't need them, or at least does not have to count on them. And even if you make mistakes (forget to pop that CD etc.), a paladin has a "one-time-fail-insurance". And thats why prot paladins are so overpowered right now.
    so paladins are OP because we are retard proof? That explains why the general population of players are saying OMGNERFRET.

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