Why fear??

[killdangel]

Im playing priest in arena (2k+)I run affliction lock, disc priest.
I know its not an easy comp, and not alot of people run it, but i have a question.
Our only CC depends of fear, and since both of use can only cast that, its already hard to cc someone.
After that, what im wandering is, why than half the classes have a counter vs fear? Why isnt it the same with stuns? Incapacitates? etc?

Warriors - berserker rage
Paladins - nothing
Hunters - nothing
Shamans - Tremor Totem
DK - AMS and Forsaken
Locks - nothing
Priests - fear ward
Rogue - nothing
Druids - berserk (feral)
Mages - nothing

Add to this than any undead class will just laugh at me with Will of the Forsaken.

So lets say i fight an undead warrior... if my warlock is busy killing idk what healer, he gets one or 2 fears off the warrior here and there... My fera is 30 seconds, his berserker rage too. So that gets my fear off the way all the time. if the lock fears him after his zerker is down, WOTF. He even have the choice of trinketing Death Coil or anything else if he feels like it, not like "hmm should i save it for something else"...

So im wandering why blizzard made more than 50% of the classes have something against fear, when they took orc's racial (-25% chance to get stunned) away because it was "too op".

[Pojupenguin]

Warlocks have Seduction, so you don't only have to rely on fear.

[xDavidTChang]

seduction, while a charm shares a dr with all fears so spamming seduction doesnt actually solve the problem

[Clarkis2001]

Warlocks have Seduction, so you don't only have to rely on fear.

Fear, Howl of Terror, Intimidating Shout, Seduction, Psychic Scream and Blind are all on the same DR.

[Camthra]

Warlock fear is spammable, and they do have other modes of CC.

Check the Succubus's pet bar if you don't believe me.

Also, on your question of double standards for fear against stuns: Fears take you out of the fight for the duration of the fear, but unlike stuns, fears also make some classes next to useless while they're running back to you.

Don't give me any of that "Well, death grip, intercept, shadow step, Fear Ward...etc" stuff either, they aren't always available due to CDs (Fear Ward has a 3 minute CD), but the warlock fear has very little down time, a small time to cast, and the diminishing returns often aren't that bad.



...But as a shadow priest, I'd like to see less anti-fear, because that actually IS my only viable escape method.

[bigblack23]

Im playing priest in arena (2k+)I run affliction lock, disc priest.
I know its not an easy comp, and not alot of people run it, but i have a question.
Our only CC depends of fear, and since both of use can only cast that, its already hard to cc someone.
After that, what im wandering is, why than half the classes have a counter vs fear? Why isnt it the same with stuns? Incapacitates? etc?

Because CC isn't your only way of surviving.

Disc priests are probably the best tanking PvP class in the game.

CC != only way to survive. You are supposed to get hit so that other people actually have a chance to win.

[bigblack23]

i lol'd

Rogues don't have a way to break fear, i think that is what he meant.

Although this is retarded, since rogues have a million ways to prevent it.

OP is just a confused nub, let him have his rant

[Handarbak]

Will of the Forsaken: Removes any Charm, Fear and Sleep effect.
Seduction = Charm, thus Will of the Forsaken > Seduction.

[Clarkis2001]

Warlock fear is spammable, and they do have other modes of CC.

Check the Succubus's pet bar if you don't believe me.

Also, on your question of double standards for fear against stuns: Fears take you out of the fight for the duration of the fear, but unlike stuns, fears also make some classes next to useless while they're running back to you.

Don't give me any of that "Well, death grip, intercept, shadow step, Fear Ward...etc" stuff either, they aren't always available due to CDs (Fear Ward has a 3 minute CD), but the warlock fear has very little down time, a small time to cast, and the diminishing returns often aren't that bad.



...But as a shadow priest, I'd like to see less anti-fear, because that actually IS my only viable escape method.

As I said Seduction and Fear share diminishing returns. I feel I say this in every thread I comment in BUT I'm getting the info out there. If Fear and Seduction were not on the same DR it would make Warlocks the undisputed Kings/Queens of CC.

[Shaamwow]

List of things to destroy with one (not two, ONE) flick of your wand in pvp:

#1. Tremor Totem


If tremor is clearing your fears you are decidedly doing it wrong.

Don't tell me, "its too hard," or anything similar to that. I'm not even at a high rating this season yet (lack of play time) and I'll tell you that in just about every match with a fearing opponent my tremor totem has been dead withing seconds of me dropping it quite literally every time.

Hell, one time I dropped a tremor only to have it instantly wanded (followed by a fear cast), then I dropped it AGAIN just before the fear went off, and it was then promptly wanded for a 2nd time before it was able to tick.

Even if you don't kill it, 90% of the time (in my experience at least) a fear will take me out of range of my tremor's tick.


I'll give in to the idea that perhaps there is too much anti-fear going around (for your specific comp), but I think putting tremor on the list goes into the realm of misrepresenting the reality of the situation.

It's killable (5hp or something stupid like that).

Kill it.

[Deleted]

Pala's got bubble, so yes they can break fear.. Do some more fact, before you post

[Handarbak]

Pala's got bubble, so yes they can break fear.. Do some more fact, before you post

Holy crap bro, srsly there's a 5 minute cooldown that breaks fear? NURF!

No but seriously, that only makes his case stronger as he can add one additional counter to the list, so um... shoo!

[Handarbak]

List of things to destroy with one (not two, ONE) flick of your wand in pvp:

#1. Tremor Totem


If tremor is clearing your fears you are decidedly doing it wrong.

Don't tell me, "its too hard," or anything similar to that. I'm not even at a high rating this season yet (lack of play time) and I'll tell you that in just about every match with a fearing opponent my tremor totem has been dead withing seconds of me dropping it quite literally every time.

Hell, one time I dropped a tremor only to have it instantly wanded (followed by a fear cast), then I dropped it AGAIN just before the fear went off, and it was then promptly wanded for a 2nd time before it was able to tick.

Even if you don't kill it, 90% of the time (in my experience at least) a fear will take me out of range of my tremor's tick.


I'll give in to the idea that perhaps there is too much anti-fear going around (for your specific comp), but I think putting tremor on the list goes into the realm of misrepresenting the reality of the situation.

It's killable (5hp or something stupid like that).

Kill it.

I myself am a warrior playing with a shaman in 2v2, at the moment we're at about 1950 but we've been to 2k before so we're not complete noobs. I completely agree, tremor totem is soooo easy to kill and it seriously should be stronger, but it still breaks fear, does it not? Did he at any time given mention specifically that tremor totem was overpowered? No, he did not. So what's your point?

[Verth]

Fear used to be the most feared and annoying ability in vanilia since you could just fear someone, put his dots on him and let him die while still feared. Locks also used to cast seduction, then shadowbolt and repeat since it had no DR.

Of course dots and fear have been nerfed to the ground since TBC and affli has lost its popularity.
Also EVRY class can dispell fear apart from locks.

Paladins have bubble and can also dispell it off their teamates.
Hunters have bestial wrath, and believe me it was enough to completly disarm me in TBC especially when my resil was still low.
Rogues wont get feared. They just wont. They dont even need to dispell it since it wont hit them. 80% of PVP rogues are undead = 1 more trinket against locks. Then, they have CoS in case a fear is inc, and you cant fear something you cant see either.
Mages will silence you just when you cast this fear so either be destro and cast a shadowfurry before fearing (thank god blink has GCD) or go instant fear in affli, if you'll ever be able to go near the mage. EVEN after that, there's ice block to conveniently break your fear ---> dot combo just when you spent 1/4 of your mana putting your dots on it after continuous resists and 50% reduced time due to mage armor.

The main problem imo is that locks have no cooldowns to help them in oh shit situations. About every other class has something to help it when things get worse.


Death knights just spam cooldowns one after the other. Every CD has a 1min timer anyway.
Druids have barksking at least for every specc and their individual cooldowns in every tree.
Hunters just couldnt stand zerging their opponents with traps and shots and needed a mobile ice block.
Mages got ice block on baseline in TBC and are happy since then.
Paladins always had bubble and a bunch of other cooldowns.
Priests have dispersion as shadow, and divine hymn as long as they use it right. They never had decent cooldowns however, shadow still suffers so they all go healer godmode.
Rogues literaly have 7 abilities without a CD. The rest are cooldowns.
Shamans dont have one either, look at them how squishy they are in PVP. Of course you can go wolves and hero/BL and 3 shot anyone, but that's one specc and the CD is dispellable.
Warriors also have several cooldowns even if they dont base on them all the time.


What do locks have? Metamorphosis. That's in demo specc.
Think it as if your paladin had to full prot to get divine shield, or if your rogue had to go subtlety 51 points deep to get CoS.

[Deleted]

I lol'd at the posters saying "Well you can seduce when you cant fear"
Its on the same DR tard.

L2P

[Kawasaki.gdm]

Pala's got bubble, so yes they can break fear.. Do some more fact, before you post

I Lol,d for like 5 min, same time on Bubble CD.

[Bambikiller]

it doesn't matter that its on a 5 min cd.... its the point... the lock is supposed to have fear to CC a person. If the pally is coming at you and rofl raping you with their insane melee CRUSADER STRIKE FOR 6K MELEE 3K SOC 3K DIVINE STORM 4K SOC for another 1.5k or so. shit i as a lock better fear him off me before he completely kills me ( this all assuming he can catch up to me, which he can cause he can run faster then any other class in the game ) but he knows im about to die cause he just hit me for about a trillion on 2 seconds so i fear him but he knows im about to die, if i don't get a heal or don't have a healer, or wahtever, so he pops my CC off with his CD (5 mins or whatever it is doesn't matter) and comes back and beats on me still while he is IMMUNE!!!!

The point isn't that the CD is 5 mins long, its the point that its a way to remove the Fear....

[Nixia]

Warriors - berserker rage
Paladins - nothing (Bubble)
Hunters - nothing (Bestial Wrath)
Shamans - Tremor Totem
DK - AMS and Forsaken
Locks - nothing
Priests - fear ward
Rogue - nothing (CoS, yeah i know it doesn't remove fear but you won't be refeared)
Druids - berserk (feral)
Mages - nothing (Iceblock)

[Handarbak]

it doesn't matter that its on a 5 min cd.... its the point... the lock is supposed to have fear to CC a person. If the pally is coming at you and rofl raping you with their insane melee CRUSADER STRIKE FOR 6K MELEE 3K SOC 3K DIVINE STORM 4K SOC for another 1.5k or so. shit i as a lock better fear him off me before he completely kills me ( this all assuming he can catch up to me, which he can cause he can run faster then any other class in the game ) but he knows im about to die cause he just hit me for about a trillion on 2 seconds so i fear him but he knows im about to die, if i don't get a heal or don't have a healer, or wahtever, so he pops my CC off with his CD (5 mins or whatever it is doesn't matter) and comes back and beats on me still while he is IMMUNE!!!!

The point isn't that the CD is 5 mins long, its the point that its a way to remove the Fear....

My point was that bubble has a 5 minute CD with a 12 second duration. That means out of 300 seconds he can be immune for 12 so you have what, 288 seconds to fear as you wish? (not counting DR's but you get my point I assume) But yeah, I 100% support this thread, fear should have less counters, but I don't think you can count bubble as a reliable one.

[Jutteri]

Fear used to be the most feared and annoying ability in vanilia since you could just fear someone, put his dots on him and let him die while still feared. Locks also used to cast seduction, then shadowbolt and repeat since it had no DR.

Of course dots and fear have been nerfed to the ground since TBC and affli has lost its popularity.
Also EVRY class can dispell fear apart from locks.

Paladins have bubble and can also dispell it off their teamates.
Hunters have bestial wrath, and believe me it was enough to completly disarm me in TBC especially when my resil was still low.
Rogues wont get feared. They just wont. They dont even need to dispell it since it wont hit them. 80% of PVP rogues are undead = 1 more trinket against locks. Then, they have CoS in case a fear is inc, and you cant fear something you cant see either.
Mages will silence you just when you cast this fear so either be destro and cast a shadowfurry before fearing (thank god blink has GCD) or go instant fear in affli, if you'll ever be able to go near the mage. EVEN after that, there's ice block to conveniently break your fear ---> dot combo just when you spent 1/4 of your mana putting your dots on it after continuous resists and 50% reduced time due to mage armor.

The main problem imo is that locks have no cooldowns to help them in oh shit situations. About every other class has something to help it when things get worse.


Death knights just spam cooldowns one after the other. Every CD has a 1min timer anyway.
Druids have barksking at least for every specc and their individual cooldowns in every tree.
Hunters just couldnt stand zerging their opponents with traps and shots and needed a mobile ice block.
Mages got ice block on baseline in TBC and are happy since then.
Paladins always had bubble and a bunch of other cooldowns.
Priests have dispersion as shadow, and divine hymn as long as they use it right. They never had decent cooldowns however, shadow still suffers so they all go healer godmode.
Rogues literaly have 7 abilities without a CD. The rest are cooldowns.
Shamans dont have one either, look at them how squishy they are in PVP. Of course you can go wolves and hero/BL and 3 shot anyone, but that's one specc and the CD is dispellable.
Warriors also have several cooldowns even if they dont base on them all the time.


What do locks have? Metamorphosis. That's in demo specc.
Think it as if your paladin had to full prot to get divine shield, or if your rogue had to go subtlety 51 points deep to get CoS.

Last time i played locks had more than Meta.
Teleport is very strong when used right, but i bet your lvl 12 warlock dosent have it, dont worry, it shouldnt.
Void sacrifice is good one too (lvl 20 or something around that)
Healthstone also is very good, imo of course.
Soul link -20% damage, ok just shitty and useless.


Yes, its still true that warlocks die easily when you get to them. But if warlocks are getting more defensive cooldowns im pretty sure that everyone (yes, you locks too) agree that your needing a decent burst nerf to destro spec.