Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
  1. #41

    Re: Deathknight DW tanking

    You can dw the 10 and 25 ony weapons.

    Ygorl-
    Is the reason your giving dw more Runestrike because with a 1.5 weapon speed it'll be a rare case that a boss will attack faster than you. Thus the situation in which 2 back to back rune strike procs will not be lost?

  2. #42

    Re: Deathknight DW tanking

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreager_ex
    1) Yes, I don't think the bosses have parry haste anymore... or if they do it isn't enough to worth mentioning.

    2) You are gonna want two slow weapons no matter what, your threat is already going to be nerfed because you need a lot more Hit than most other tanks.... I see your friend's logic but after having tested it on the PTR... I found that my rune strikes were more limited to my RP not reallly how fast my main hand was. (IE: I had more rune strikes than my runic power would allow me to cast.)

    3) I think the whole point of DW being viable is that you can now use DPS 1 handed weapons to Tank with (due to the new rune) rather than gimping your Threat so you can be defense capped.

    4) I think Rune Strike's threat has 2 aspects... 1) Built in threat and 2) Threat from the actual damage. (If not I think the built in threat is based off how much damage you do... for instance 3x the threat a normal attack of that size would do. Not to say that is how it works... but I don't think it is just a capped amount of threat regardless of the damage.)
    Rune strike deals 150% weapon damage at a multiplier of 225% threat for damage done. It is your number one threat ability for every tanking spec, no matter what.

  3. #43
    Stood in the Fire
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Romania
    Posts
    402

    Re: Deathknight DW tanking

    Nah.
    I tried it.

    Most DK's actually think this would work, but if you try it out. it's terrible. i sacrificed over 5k stam to make up for the hit/expertise.
    Yeah, we get a cool new rune to make up for the Defense now, but nothing will make up all that hit rating and expertise.
    I 3d print stuff

  4. #44

    Re: Deathknight DW tanking

    Quote Originally Posted by Runicblood
    Nah.
    I tried it.

    Most DK's actually think this would work, but if you try it out. it's terrible. i sacrificed over 5k stam to make up for the hit/expertise.
    Yeah, we get a cool new rune to make up for the Defense now, but nothing will make up all that hit rating and expertise.
    Attributing all of your HP lose to getting the hit/expertise is erroneous. This is because you will lose hp just by switching to frost. Then if you have to switch gear in order to get the expertise, but end up with lower ilvl then it is your gear causing that change and not "getting" expertise. The legitamite hp lost come from regemming and enchants.

  5. #45

    Re: Deathknight DW tanking

    Quote Originally Posted by Runicblood
    Nah.
    I tried it.

    Most DK's actually think this would work, but if you try it out. it's terrible. i sacrificed over 5k stam to make up for the hit/expertise.
    Yeah, we get a cool new rune to make up for the Defense now, but nothing will make up all that hit rating and expertise.
    Hmmm let's see:
    Expertise is on a lot of TotC items -> not an issue.
    You need less hit than a 2H tank -> I guess you're just a noob.

  6. #46

    Re: Deathknight DW tanking

    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo
    Hmmm let's see:
    Expertise is on a lot of TotC items -> not an issue.
    You need less hit than a 2H tank -> I guess you're just a noob.
    QFT. I can confirm this as I have actually tanked with dw AND 2h weapons.

  7. #47

    Re: Deathknight DW tanking

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo_red13
    Since on the discussion on tanking, I have a question about how avoidance works, what ive been told it that % to be missed is calculated first, then dodge, then parry, and last is block. So if the boss attacks 100 times, on each attack the % to be missed is applied, so lets say I got a 10% chance to be missed and the boss attacks 100 times, 10 attacks would miss. So 90 attacks wouldn't be misses, next on each attack would be dodge. So lets say I got 33% dodge, 30 attacks would be dodged, leaving 60 that wouldnt be dodged or missed. Next is parry, and lets say i got 33% parry as well, so out of 60, 20 attacks would get parried, leaving 40 attacks. Block would be last, but since I don't have block ill just skip it.

    So out of 100 attacks 10 would be misses 30 would get dodged and 20 would get parried, even though I had the same amount of avoidance from parry and from dodge.

    So adding my parry dodge and miss avoidance, I would have 76% avoidance, but that doesan't mean that 76% of the attacks will be avoided, because of the way hits are calculated.

    Is this true? This is how ive always thought that avoidance has worked, but ive never had anyone ever comfirm this for me.

    Also I would like to thanks everyone who has replied in my topic, all the info has greatly helped.
    This isn't at all true.
    These attacks, and the avoidance, work off of a single table.
    IE, supposing the numbers you mention (10% miss, 33% dodge, 33% parry), here's how it looks:
    100 attacks
    10 misses
    33 dodges
    33 parries
    24 attacks get through

    The only thing that involves an 'ordering' on which work and which do not is that block gets shoved off the table first.
    So, if you had 50% block (assuming you could block) in this scenario, you'd have 24 blocks, not 50. The block does not cannibalize proper avoidance. Between dodge, parry, and miss, I'm not sure what the priorities are, but it shouldn't really affect you in normal gameplay.

  8. #48

    Re: Deathknight DW tanking

    Folly, yes, that's why I counted a few more rune strikes for DW.

    I was assuming an effective boss swing speed of 2.4 (pretty slow, I think, which actually makes parries hurt more and thus skews the numbers in favor of 2h). Dual-wield will be able to turn virtually every single dodge or parry into a rune strike (exceptions being lack of RP - pretty much never - and if the boss parries you a couple times immediately after you dodged or parried one of its swings, and then you dodge or parry the 80% parry-hasted following swing too). The boss gets 25 attacks per minute; if your dodge+parry is in the low-mid 50s (as it will be with dual-wielding) you'll dodge or parry about 13 of them. If you're slinging a big slow 3.6er, with haste it'll be about 2.88 seconds per swing. About 1/6 of the rune strikes that you queue up will align with your swing timer such that the boss will attack you a second time before the RS goes off. That combined with the slightly lower dodge/parry ratings from not having tanking stats on your weapon account for the difference. 11 rune strikes per minute might be just as fair as 10, and would make 2h look slightly better.

    That's the theory - in practice, I noticed about 15-20% more rune strikes dual-wielding against a single foe (and I've got RS bound to *everything* and spam keys insanely quickly, so I'm not going to miss any RS opportunities).

  9. #49

    Re: Deathknight DW tanking

    That would explain why my numbers are slightly different from yours. I was using a boss swing of 2.0. I agree that 2.6 is pretty slow from a boss swing. I also assumed that you would always have the rp to runestrike. This isn't necessarily true, but I wanted to look at best case. Did you take into account when 2 parries happen within 1 boss swing? I didn't and this would be to the advantage of dw.

    By including your difference, I found that if you have the experience from gear you can actually get away with using dps weapons. This is because of the agi on the weapons(and any sockets). This means that you can get the best threat out of dw w/o sacrificing durability.

  10. #50

    Re: Deathknight DW tanking

    I read many of these posts and i agree that threath isn't the problem tbh. In my opinion you dont use fast weapons EVEN they usually give you def-parry-dodge-expertise-hit. The main thing why i would use slow weapons is that i searched all the weapons which drob atm using wowheads filter. I made a filter so i saw all the 1 handed weapons (epics) which give you hit AND expertise. I think its not problem if your weapons doesent give advoidance or/and defense stat. Its main point that you got slow weapons and they give you SOMETHING important to tanking. Myself im not tank atm cause i dont have guild or gear but i'm trying to get gear for it and i have been searching for correct gear and stat caps for dw tanking. I found that --http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight#eSQ3qDqrp0axLC,MrwROe,10571-- would be the best build. Why? i think frost tank which cd:ds arent the best compared to blood should have somekind of buff to the raid. I know theres shamans which give WF totem to you but this is good for groups which has no shamans or who wont use WF totem. Also for 10 mans this is very big thing cause buffing tank is nice in my opinion. So lets get back to the gear. I would personally (after some hours of thinking and searching) have 3 choices (so you need to leave one out)

    --http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45463--

    Theres good dps in this weapons which is good for tanking also wanted ''slow'' swing timer which is nice too stamina and agi. Agi aint that good even it gives you dodge its not the best stat for dk since you get better profit from str in my opinion. Hit and expertise is the thing in these dw weapons cause you cant use regular fast tanking weps

    --http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40345--

    This one is that i really like never seen it before but damn even it has bad dps it actually only defense giving slow weapon that i have ever seen. Also it gives some hit, expertise AND STR which is very nice even tho its low amount.

    --http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45947--

    Personally i think this is the best one since it has slowest swing timer, and best dps. This weapon also provides a socket spot where you can socket expertise-defense-hit or anything you want to. The weapon it self grants nice amount of hit and expertise

    I would like to hear other ppl:s opinion about these weapon choices and specs

    Thank you and sorry for my english :<

  11. #51

    Re: Deathknight DW tanking

    Ive been DW tanking for just a little while now and i'm using two 1.5 speed weapons and i'm not noticing much of a threat loss. I'm not causing as much as I was when i was using a 2h, but the threat loss seems to be very minimal overall. My main concern is my expertise and hit right now, I did some quick math in my head and I still get hit more often from parry hasting than I save from the extra avoidance I get while using the 2 tanking swords I have.

    In my opinion about 10% or more from expertise would be favorable when DW 1.5 speed weapons to offset parry hasting.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAOxY_nHdew
    Quote Originally Posted by Norlak
    It's all irrelevant to be honest. In the coming expansion, some random Joe Sixpack quest giver will still be ordering me, the godslaying lich-king defeating badass, to do some random poop-related quests.
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Burning+Blade&cn=Lysonder

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •