Not worth at the moment.
Not worth at the moment.
as i see it
vanilla as shadow = unused in PvE (though far from terrible), amazing to average in PvP
TBC as shadow = incredible support, decent dps till MH/BT, average to poor in PvP
WotLK as shadow = little to no support, decent dps till ulduar/totc, poor to a joke in PvP
I honestly though there wasnt that much of a problem with shadow until we started trying hardmodes in TotGC.
If you are wanting to rock the DPS in hardmodes, play something else. If you're looking for a (fairly) unique playstyle, this may be the spec for you, though frankly if you havent played as shadow previously i think you might have missed the best :/
Warlock is -.8. Shadow is -3.5. Compare to some of the high DPS... Mage is +2.5, DK is +2.1. Now compare to the other Replenishment class and you'll find Ret at -.7.Originally Posted by glan
Also keep in mind that while Shadow is universal on those lists, those lists only include the top 50 of the class, which means things like Destro, Arcane, Blood, etc may all rank a bit higher. Also keep in mind that the only fight where Shadow does 'good' is due to multi-dotting on a fight where Multi-Dotting is detrimental and focus fire is much better (FC). Fact is Shadow is farther beneath the mean than anyone is above it. It shouldn't surprise anyone that Shadow is no longer considered viable for serious raiding.
with all this said im guessing i should just go disc and holy because shadow will leave me out of higher end raids?
I don't care if I do not top the charts, the Raid content my casual guild is doing has no need of a 10k dps Spriest.
Shadow is worth it if you enjoy it and are not hard core raiding.
"There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil."
If you plan to get up to serious hardcore raiding, then no, it's not worth it right now. It may be in the future, but right now now. Disc > Holy > Shadow in order of demand for Priests, but most guilds would highly prefer a Warlock to a Shadow Priest as they already have a Balance Druid.Originally Posted by tcnas
Whats already been said, at the moment its not worth it and prolly won't be for along time to come.
If your in a good guild you will get benched for other classes in ToC HM's, simple.
We used to run with 2-3 shadowpriests, that was for BC. in early WotLK we dropped to one, now in ToC we run with none. The abilities they used to bring are now scattered amoungst much higher and more common DPS:
Replenishment is now so common that blizzards dream of it being standard to all raids has been reached.
Passive healing is out matched by a healing stream totem or a pally/DK ability.
Bonus damage is gone and who exactly needs bonus hit.
BTW I run now with holy/disc combinations in PUGS a shadow priest rates as useful as a BM huntard.
R.I.P. SHADOW PRIESTS.
Not true... we run 2 spriests in our H TOGC25 and thus far we hover around the top 5 dps for Beasts and Jarraxus. Even the most hardcore guilds out there, eg Ensidia, take 1 spriest to their raids. As it stands at the moment there is room for decently geared/skilled spriests, fact is there just isn't many of those going around.Originally Posted by Krowzer
A lot of people complain about Shadow because a lot of them tend to 'clip' their attacks. [Single targets, i.e. Boss]
i.e. - Refreshing a debuff before the final tick, Mind flaying again too quick before 2 ticks or doing the full duration but recasting it again too quick before the 3rd tick, Using Mind Blast at moments where Mind Flay would be more optimal, etc.
Shadow Priests are a class that takes time to learn proper, and when done right can do their fair share of dps - granted they can't compete to other classes and are definately in need of some loving... but, as I mentioned above, a lot of people dont play them proper, hence their dps being a fair bit lower than the other DPS classes.
Do Shadow Priests do Noticeably less DPS than many classes, including hybrids? Yes.
Do Shadow Priests deal so much less damage that they aren't worth playing? No.
Shadow Priests have one big problem. We don't scale nearly as well with gear as most other classes do. Shadow Priests did very well at the start of The Burning Crusade, but where doing significantly less damage by T6 content compared to equally geared raiders. This was justified back then because of the enormous utility Shadow Priests brought. But now, our damage was buffed and our utility was nerfed, but we are starting to see the same pattern.
We did VERY well in Naxxramas, Obsidian Sanctum and Eye of Eternity simply because we were carried by our talents more than our gear. We are starting to see the same patterns of discrepancy compared to our equally geared guild mates in T9.
But Blizzard is taking steps to fixing that. Giving us a VERY nice T10 4-piece bonus (reducing the channeling time of Mindflay by .5 seconds, essentially, with enough haste, allowing for 3 mindflays between Mind blasts instead of 2. They are also experimenting with having Haste effect Shadow Word Pain's ticks. I'm sure this will be a significant buff combined.
Yes - we are dealing a bit less damage than most other classes, but I wouldn't trade my shadow priest for the world. I was mostly a holy priest back in TBC but I am absolutely in love with my priest now as Shadow.
It takes much longer to perfect the play style compared to most other classes. But once you do, it's pretty rewarding.
This might just be a personal bias, but I personally think Shadow Priests should deal significantly more DPS since we have a much harder rotation than most casters. It's kinda the same excuse they've been using to justify Feral Druid DPS for a while now.
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As has been noted already they are looking at letting our dots scale with haste which would go someways to fixing shadow pve wise, as for pvp i think we need some serious changes to be viable and i've gone disc due to a lack of faith that we will get anywhere pvpwise before cataclysm if indeed we get anything with cataclysm for that matter
Blizzard has achieved the "Bring the player, not the class" concept to the max, so much so that in order for some specs to be viable in the high end raiding scene, they need to do a bloody song and dance just to get a spot.Originally Posted by Worshaka
Meaning if you're a high end raid guild doing Heroic 25 ToC, the only reason you'd bring a Shadow Priest is if the player behind that Shadow Priest is so amazing and reliable that not bringing him would hurt the over-all raid.
That's our main problem...
You COULD bring a Shadow Priest, and the player behind that Shadow Priest COULD be amazing, but why would you want to bring him, when you could just bring a face-roll warlock who'll top the meters with next to no effort?
Shadow Priests need to work their ass off in order to make it into the top 5 or 10 DPS, and that means not missing a single mind blast and keeping their dots up 99.9% of the time. If every player played at that efficiency level, Heroic ToC 25 would have been cleared the first week it was available.
80 Kingslayer Shadow Priest - Spirestone
I'm thinking of going shadow as well when I get dual spec. Gonna be fun.
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I'm a cynic. Deal with it!
It's like using King in Tekken... hard (but not hardest) and not always worthy. But when you are in the top 3 you feel very satisfied
The amount of work you put into it is not proportionate to the amount of damage you output relative to the other classes and specs with a straight forward rotation with a strict order instead of the S-Priest's priority system.
I think a priority system is awesome, takes more work, and maybe more skill and timing, but when only a minority of specs use it and everyone else has a 1,1,1,2,1,1,1,3 rotation proven to be the best by math and can be done while watching TV, it's a problem.
I don't play shadow at all, never have, anyone agree though?
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This^^Originally Posted by Direshadow
I'd like to see your combat logs taken from these fights.Not true... we run 2 spriests in our H TOGC25 and thus far we hover around the top 5 dps for Beasts and Jarraxus. Even the most hardcore guilds out there, eg Ensidia, take 1 spriest to their raids. As it stands at the moment there is room for decently geared/skilled spriests, fact is there just isn't many of those going around.
But my point is still valid- show me a semi-hardcore guild who are doing TOC HM's and on Anub' who would rather take a SP over a mage, rogue, dk, warlock, warrior, feral druid etc assuming they are equal skilled and geared.
If my guilds raidleader had 5x DK's and 5x Mages- he'd be more than happy to stack them on Anub'.
I'm a shadow priest ina respectable guild and I stay consistantly in the top ten despite all the "bad scaling". I think ( like any class) it's defined by the player on how well they perform. Obviously when all players are playing at their optimum, spriests will be last (excluding gimmick fights like GV or Hodir).
I honestly believe it one of the easy classes to play, but by far the hardest to master. The priority changes so often, depending on haste, tier pieces, buffs, movement, etc. With 3.3 changes I think it will bring our scaling alot closer other classes, to the point where people will ask for spriests.
With napkin math on using stats from a ToGC NRB kill, with hasted dots alone it would have increased my dps by 1800 being raid buffed, including the additional crits from the more dots. Then the points to the Glyph of shadow to increase the SP recieved from spirit from 10%--->30% which is huge because not only does it increase SP from gear, it also buffs Imp Spirit Tap procs as well as having a sexy synergy with Twisted Faith.
So if you can get into every raid you can in ToC until 3.34 because all the spriests in the top ten will move into the top 5 and all the average spriests might get looked at now for a raid invite.
My two cents,