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  1. #41

    Re: holy paladin mp5

    the guy said he is running 10 man toc regular. of course he doesn't need anything but flash with 3 healers. we 2 heal that easy stuff and flash only most the time.

    but again, we have went over this many of times. we are not discussing how to gem and chant and worry about mp5 for easy mode content. we are talking about hardest content possible. you flash of light build is not good for 25 heroics.

  2. #42

    Re: holy paladin mp5

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathwarrant
    When you can go tank heal Anub in Heroic ToC 25 with FoL I will replace the 19 Int gems I have gladly, until then. I think my raid would rather the tank live based on what works, then what might work.
    Actually, to be fair, Heroic Anub is the one fight in the game where I would want a FoL build. I hardly even touch my HL button until the last phase of that fight, at which point I'm so busy chaining HLs that I can barely find a spare global to refresh Beacon. A really nice FoL build and gear set would be ideal there because the size of a strong FoL is just about perfect compared to the damage being taken. As it is, I'm a bit too lazy to put together a second set and instead selfishly hoard 2-3 Innervates for that phase. :P

    If you talk to the guilds that killed this boss early and check out their logs and armorys, you can see that's exactly what they did. Holy Pallies with FoL builds and gear. That's what it took to get the early kills. Fortunately my guild isn't quite that cutting edge and I can afford to be less than ideal due to all the gear upgrades we've gotten in the past few weeks.

    This is one third of one fight in the game though. Anywhere else it would be fail.
    <WHAR LEWTS PLZ HALp>
    I'm bitter by default. Don't take it personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Either give an argument, or be automatically wrong. Your choice.

  3. #43

    Re: holy paladin mp5

    Quote Originally Posted by Fajer
    Don't get me wrong here. Certainly not, haste is a very very good thing but from what Ive experienced pretty much everyone here that post says haste is a gift from god.

    Alround 35,5% crit (higher ofc in a raidenviroment)
    405 haste (I gone down from 550+ since I consider haste to be a complement to lack of skill, and a rough 1.4sec HL is plenty fast,here is where I dont want you to get me wrong) (I do eat 40+haste food tho)
    2621sp
    Haste is a good stat to have. More haste you have the more opportunity you have to crit and thus more chance to regen mana faster. On paper I do like 0.8sec Flashes and 1.15sec HL's averaging around 55% crit. Typically I never have to use Divine plea anymore unless its a hard fight with those stats.

    other paladins who have 35k mana, no haste and no mp5 seem to just sit there and spam one button and end up regening as much mana as I do but end up overhealing as much as a druid. I think once I compared myself to a fellow paladin in same gear (full t8.5 at the time) and my casts were beating him by like 2-2.5:1 and critting more and regening more in return.

    but also I know a paladin who desires your setup and he is as effective as I in low overhealing, high regen, and high heals healing on targets as well.

  4. #44

    Re: holy paladin mp5

    Quote Originally Posted by Masterpd85
    More haste you have the more opportunity you have to crit and thus more chance to regen mana faster.
    This sentence actually made me facepalm IRL. You do realize that you may be regenning more, but you're also casting more too, right?

    Haste is good. This just is not at all the reason why.

    On paper I do like 0.8sec Flashes and 1.15sec HL's averaging around 55% crit. Typically I never have to use Divine plea anymore unless its a hard fight with those stats.
    If you're gonna make up numbers, at least try to be realistic. You haven't even cleared normal mode TotC.

    but also I know a paladin who desires your setup and he is as effective as I in low overhealing, high regen, and high heals healing on targets as well.
    Low overhealing is the mark of a terrible Holy Pally. I'd explain it to you, but I just barely did so on the second page of this very thread. You would do well to look into it though.
    <WHAR LEWTS PLZ HALp>
    I'm bitter by default. Don't take it personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Either give an argument, or be automatically wrong. Your choice.

  5. #45

    Re: holy paladin mp5

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathwarrant
    For someone to make a statement that FoL is acceptable to tank heal is horribly wrong, and is only running easymode content and heroic instances. This is fact, sorry to bust some bubbles here. Tanks are taking 20-30K damage every 1.5-2.5 seconds in alot of cases now in heroic ToC. FoL will never keep a tank alive in this case.

    My HL is on 1.4 secs and can provide three times the healing per cast over FoL consistently and only costs .3-.4 secs more cast time. With my current trinkets and Libram (Triumph badge Libram/Trinket and Pandora's Plea) it is nothing in combat to be pushing nothing but 20+ HL's, with spikes over 32K.

    The fact that in Heroic ToC25 a Pally can go as high as 20K effective HPS proves that FoL is only for HoT use or for other minor hits. Same applies to HS, I only really use it if there is a BRez being used and I want that person up very fast as it's one of the largest hitting instant cast heals in game, mine likes to stay around the 10K range.

    Set bonuses are not really worth it, most 245-258 gear that I have seems to have been blessed by blizzard and has like one socket, and it's YELLOW. Major blessing by bliz as far as socket bonuses are.

    As far as haste goes, your going to get enough of it with the current gear, no need for any more then that, same applies to MP5. It is nothing to smash through 250K mana in a encounter and still end the fight over 50% pool.
    If your raid is structured correctly you have several tools that allow for replenishment either by tick or rapidly. I personaly switched over to SoW/JoW as JoW is melee hit and provides 1588 mana per hit. I really now only use DP during certain spots when I am not having to cast at all and prefer to keep it that way with the healing debuff.

    OH, HI
    mind link a WMO fight?

    i am not arguing which spec is better, i am saying both are viable, and i hope people accept that falsh light spec can heal as well.

    that's my point

  6. #46

    Re: holy paladin mp5

    Actually, if you really do have it and are not just blowing smoke, I would like for you to link some hard mode WMOs. I've had trouble finding logs of Pallies with FoL gear doing Hardmode fights because all the endgame players know better. I'd be really interested to see it.
    <WHAR LEWTS PLZ HALp>
    I'm bitter by default. Don't take it personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Either give an argument, or be automatically wrong. Your choice.

  7. #47
    Field Marshal
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    Re: holy paladin mp5

    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest
    Actually, if you really do have it and are not just blowing smoke, I would like for you to link some hard mode WMOs. I've had trouble finding logs of Pallies with FoL gear doing Hardmode fights because all the endgame players know better. I'd be really interested to see it.
    I'd love to see this too, so i can see how much their raid healers are carrying them.

  8. #48

    Re: holy paladin mp5

    Far out, all i said was to try something new, and all i get is bloody flames. All i'm reading are posts by people who are too stubborn to try anything new. FYI, we don't just do ToC normal, we are a 10man guild doing hardmodes. Yes you may make me look like i'm just doing easy content, but try say that in 10man gear. I seriously love people who say how easy 10 man content is in full 25/25heroic gear.

    I never said int stacking was bad, i agree it has its benefits and is extremely raid viable. I was merely trying to offer a different solution in case you feel a little bored of spamming Holy light and gemming for 1 stat. I also said the person i was talking about admitted to having a little too much mp5 and was in the process of fine tuning his gear.

    Sigh, i remember why i stopped playing my paladin. Paladins seem to be the most stubborn of the 10 classes. Guess this is a reminder to steer clear of these forums from now on cos the only impression this 'discussion' has left on me is that most current healadins are like old ladies refusing to buy a computer because "their typewriter works just fine thx."
    There is no Arthas, only Ner'zhul.

  9. #49

    Re: holy paladin mp5

    Quote Originally Posted by kelynn15
    Yes i made an account to comment on this lol. I'm not going to knock the way anyone is gemming but for an endgame holy paladin healing hard modes.

    FoL Kills Tanks.

    Hence Int stacking wins.
    i generally stacked crit and SP, mainly used FoL and HS, till we got the HoT. and since there is more dmg hitting the tank i have to use HL sometimes. but i still mainly use FoL and shock. and my tanks dont die. so shhhh with all that plox, ty that is all


  10. #50
    The Patient Dantrag's Avatar
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    Re: holy paladin mp5

    my personal mp5 "cap" is nearby 160 while casting. i want not to gather mp5 more and i think to exchange one of my mp5 items onto crit/haste/mp.

    ps - even in togc25 on beasts FoL can be used. not 100%uptime, but nearby 70%. usually there are 3-4 hots on the tank, shields, absorbing/dodging procs etc, so if my FoL crits for 7200-7500 i can use only it. if i need to make a *healing burst* i use combo fol-hs-fol - it restores same amount of health as hl but for less mana. FoL is much better than HL - but you need ~3100 sp (2600-2700unbuffed+125flask+~300from Demonoic Pact) and sp-libram(arena or t9 hl proc) to use FoL.
    p.p.s - as i said, you can use FoL _most of the time_, but not all the time. HL becomes not spam-spell but *HIL TANKZ BECUZ ICEHOWL GOEZ ENRAGE*.
    p.p.p.s - with hots on tanks from 1 dru and shields&hots from 1 priest you can keep tank under enraged(it's our 1rstkill tactics - zerg acidworm while bloodlust and then kill dreadmaw) worm(togc25) alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amaricre
    i generally stacked crit and SP, mainly used FoL and HS, till we got the HoT. and since there is more dmg hitting the tank i have to use HL sometimes. but i still mainly use FoL and shock. and my tanks dont die. so shhhh with all that plox, ty that is all
    i love you
    [Talisman of Resurgence] icon is made of small kitten's red eyes. each time you use the proc, the god kills two more kittens to refresh it's icon after cooldown.
    Holy Paladin trinket comparison

  11. #51

    Re: holy paladin mp5

    Quote Originally Posted by Dantrag

    1) - even in togc25 on beasts FoL can be used. not 100%uptime, but nearby 70%. usually there are 3-4 hots on the tank, shields, absorbing/dodging procs etc, so if my FoL crits for 7200-7500 i can use only it. if i need to make a *healing burst* i use combo fol-hs-fol - it restores same amount of health as hl but for less mana. FoL is much better than HL - but you need ~3100 sp (2600-2700unbuffed+125flask+~300from Demonoic Pact) and sp-libram(arena or t9 hl proc) to use FoL.
    2) - as i said, you can use FoL _most of the time_, but not all the time. HL becomes not spam-spell but *HIL TANKZ BECUZ ICEHOWL GOEZ ENRAGE*.
    3) - with hots on tanks from 1 dru and shields&hots from 1 priest you can keep tank under enraged(it's our 1rstkill tactics - zerg acidworm while bloodlust and then kill dreadmaw) worm(togc25) alive.

    i love you
    .... Seriously if you're doing those bosses with 2-3 more healers than needed that is nice for you.:
    1)That "burst" combo you describe is horrible : It needs at least twice as long as a Holy Light and heals for the same amount -- awes... awful.
    2) If you're running with more healers than needed you can - if you want to be taken serious don't use it it kills people your Icehowl enrage is a horrible example.
    3) Yes ofc ... eh not!
    Armories:
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  12. #52

    Re: holy paladin mp5

    I only read the first page, so this may sound dumb 4 pages in, but why is every one having a hard time with 25 man Anub'Arak? Nobody mentioned hard mode as far as I saw, so if that's the case, disregard.

    I pugged a 25 man last week that cleared him on 4th attempt, with most of the people never havng done the fight before. It's really not that hard...

  13. #53

    Re: holy paladin mp5

    So many threads on this forum get derailed into this FoL spam Vrs HL Spam argument. I for once will throw in my .02 cuz I'm bored at work..

    A good healer uses the correct spell for the situation.... As the content gets harder (based on your gear) HL will be used more often, this was true in BC and it's true in WoTLK. You can get all the way through nax using hardly any HL's at all if any in todays gear. Chances are in ToGC25 you arent going to outgear the instance enough to get away with that. the same situation happened in BC. You could flash your way to prince in kara with no issues, by the time you got to sunwell if you cast flash to many times in any fight your tank was making a corpse run, and so where you and the rest of the raid. The point is to be ready for any situation that could come up, which may (and actually at some point WILL) be to spam HL for an extended period of time. we are very lucky as holy pally's that we get nearly all the stats we use as a spinoff of INT.. It's mana pool which allows us to cast more spells and adds enormous amounts of mp5 from replen/DP/mana tide/etc. It gives us spellpower through talents, It increases crit which is even more regen AND increased healing (although unreliable as a Thuroughput(sp?) stat). how could you argue against stacking anything that carries that much goodness? you never see arguments on druid forums against ferals stacking AGI because it does everything they need! it doesnt take much math at all to proove this, heck doesnt require anything more than comman sence..

    TLDR: If you got extra healers or the damage output is low, flash your heart out thats why you have the spell. but there are times this wont work and you have to be ready for that, thats why we stack INT. DONT JUST HIT ONE BUTTON, HIT THE RIGHT BUTTON FOR THE RIGHT SITUATION. but the farther you get into an expac, that button is going to lean more towards the one with the biggest number.

  14. #54

    Re: holy paladin mp5

    Quote Originally Posted by _Cin
    If a boss is hitting that hard, you wouldn't have 1 holy paladin assigned to the tank. I can understand you're point (however short), but there ARE other options. It just seems majority of healadins are stuck in this intel stacking rut, and can't get out. Don't knock back a new way of playing simply because it's new. Try it before you complain. Heaven forbid you actually optimise and fine tune your gear and the way you play.
    so just to make sure I got this correct, you argument for spamming flash of light is that you can just use 2 healers instead of 1 to do the job?

  15. #55

    Re: holy paladin mp5

    Quote Originally Posted by _Cin
    Far out, all i said was to try something new, and all i get is bloody flames. All i'm reading are posts by people who are too stubborn to try anything new. FYI, we don't just do ToC normal, we are a 10man guild doing hardmodes. Yes you may make me look like i'm just doing easy content, but try say that in 10man gear. I seriously love people who say how easy 10 man content is in full 25/25heroic gear.

    I never said int stacking was bad, i agree it has its benefits and is extremely raid viable. I was merely trying to offer a different solution in case you feel a little bored of spamming Holy light and gemming for 1 stat. I also said the person i was talking about admitted to having a little too much mp5 and was in the process of fine tuning his gear.

    Sigh, i remember why i stopped playing my paladin. Paladins seem to be the most stubborn of the 10 classes. Guess this is a reminder to steer clear of these forums from now on cos the only impression this 'discussion' has left on me is that most current healadins are like old ladies refusing to buy a computer because "their typewriter works just fine thx."
    my shammy had never stepped into 25 toc as a healer (she's my alt, pally heal main) and did 10 man heroic, and killed first 4 bosses with 9 other alts who had never seen a 25 man. 10 man heroic is pretty easy too, only anub is challenging really.

    now we pug 25 toc regular with 18 guild alts and 7 random pugs each week.. we wiped on one fight 1 time, anub. right now only challenging content is toc 25 hard.

  16. #56

    Re: holy paladin mp5

    Ive never cared about mp5, and I probably never will, unless blizzard decides to nerf Illumination to the bones.

    And for all you people using FoL and think's it's viable, let me cast my /palm at you.
    Try out, just for one raid, using HL while keeping Plea at CD most of the time, you'll be surprised!

  17. #57

    Re: holy paladin mp5

    just gem pure int and seek crit/haste gear till ur haste capped. then fill rest of slots with crit/mp5 and get abit more passive regen going. currently im 31k unbuffed mana, hard haste capped, and now pushing for mp5 offpieces.

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