Glyph of Rapid Rejuvenation

[procne]

yes, i am for real. regrowth provides lots of healing for its cast time. so on fights like twin val'kyrs where almost everything is about hps i will prefer regrowth over nourish (if i have time for longer cast) because regrowth will provide more healing per cast time. in such situation i can expect nourish to hit for 7k and crit for almost 11k. regrowth will hit for 6k, crit for 9k but will provide a hot that will tick 9 times for almost 1500 each tick. thats 19-21k for 1.6 sec cast compared to 7-11k for 1.2 cast. swiftmend hits for 12k, crits (rarely) for 18k at the cost of 1.2 sec global cd. if only damage is continuous then yes, i prefer regrowth over nourish and swiftmend.

and i still dont understand why are you telling me about SM and its hps. it clearly has worse hps than many other spells. please answer me on this:
- if noone is low on hp why should i use SM?
- if people are low on hp but theres no danger of additional damage soon and i can easily patch them with other spells why should i use SM?
- if we are in situation of continuous damage like on twin valkyrs or IC hard mode why should i use SM if other spells may provide better hps? or is SM still providing better hps than rejuv, regrowth, wg?

@lyren please give me an example when saving SM for emergency isnt a good thing. i can see none. if theres no emergency it means you can use other spells which can do better than SM

*edit* would you rather get 35% on a current rejuv or a full new rejuv on another target I know which I'd pick...

im not sure what you mean by this

[axio]

and i still dont understand why are you telling me about SM and its hps. it clearly has worse hps than many other spells. please answer me on this:
- if noone is low on hp why should i use SM?
- if people are low on hp but theres no danger of additional damage soon and i can easily patch them with other spells why should i use SM?
- if we are in situation of continuous damage like on twin valkyrs or IC hard mode why should i use SM if other spells may provide better hps? or is SM still providing better hps than rejuv, regrowth, wg?

@lyren please give me an example when saving SM for emergency isnt a good thing. i can see none. if theres no emergency it means you can use other spells which can do better than SM

You shouldn't. Swiftmend is mean't (imo) as an emergency heal. I can not tell you how many times I have had to use Swiftmend and then 5 seconds later I needed it even more (like, life or death for the person) and it was on cooldown... and guess what, they died. So if its not an emergency, why not wait 1.2-1.5 seconds for a Nourish? or a regrowth if there is time.

The fact is, SM has a cooldown. So you can not say it has good HPS since it can only heal per 15 seconds. I guess that means its good to use NS+HT every time its up too right? Otherwise its just a wasted cooldown... (kidding, that would be stupid)

As for the Swiftmend glyph... If you can still pull the HPS without it, then go for it. I just see it as if I'm having to use Swiftmend then they need a quick heal, and that extra help from the hot ticking after could be a life saver. If the fight really has no burst (at least none that isn't healable by nourish/regrowth) then yeah the Swiftmend glyph is pretty much useless...

I personally run with the following glyphs:

Glyph of Swiftmend
Glyph of Wild Growth
Glyph of Nourish/Glyph of Rejuv/Glyph of Rebirth/Glyph of Innervate (I keep 5 of each in my bags and swap them depending on the fight, but I'm a scribe, so it doesn't cost me anything to do this...)

[Deleted]

You mention the twins a lot for some reason , I'm guessing because it's such a huge HPS fight for us especially. The reason I'm talking about SM being more HPS is due to the fact that it's an instant cast and if you're already rolling hots on the raid it's a lot easier to use and you don't have to reroll the hot on the person after that. If sum1 gets hit by an orb there is a very severe chance that they will get hit for another, 2 orbs in hard mode = death so you don't exactly have the time to be sitting there casting regrowth like an idiot while someone gets hit by an orb they need to be topped up as soon as possible , the reason I like SM is due to it landing instantly without a cast time ... Like I've said I don't use it every cool down but I use it quiet a lot. I don't know about your other raid healers but if I'm sitting there casting regrowth the person is topped up by the time it lands unless it's mega AoE damage like a tantrum which then has me rolling hots casting SM on the person that has light and spamming a bit of nourish. Regrowth HPS wise is our worst heal (that we actually use ie. excluding HT) long cast time low initial healing and a hot that's not really great unless it's cast on a target taking constant damage ie... a tank. If you don't notice these things I'd actually start to worry for you and your HPS has gotta be pretty low. SM is a lot more HPS then regrowth as it's an instant cast do you realise what HPS actually means ??? (Healing per second). Even when you need to cast a heal with the nourish glyph nourish is worth more then regrowth even with 0 hots nourish is 9k heal Regrowth is somewhere closer to 6k. Just go crunch some numbers and you'll see

We've gotten really off-topic here but.. a player not using their cooldowns is a bad player... for emergencies I use NS & HT, don't really get that many emergencies that I need it that often.

[axio]

You mention the twins a lot for some reason , I'm guessing because it's such a huge HPS fight for us especially. The reason I'm talking about SM being more HPS is due to the fact that it's an instant cast and if you're already rolling hots on the raid it's a lot easier to use and you don't have to reroll the hot on the person after that. If sum1 gets hit by an orb there is a very severe chance that they will get hit for another, 2 orbs in hard mode = death so you don't exactly have the time to be sitting there casting regrowth like an idiot while someone gets hit by an orb they need to be topped up as soon as possible , the reason I like SM is due to it landing instantly without a cast time ... Like I've said I don't use it every cool down but I use it quiet a lot.

I mention twins because it is one of the only fights where pretty much everyone needs a heal at all times. Especially when you do it with 5 healers (*cough* cuz your shaman forgot to zone in *cough*), but anyway. I checked the WWS logs for our twin valk kill and I used swiftmend a total of 5 times, most likely because they were <30% hp and 1 more orb would kill them. Although, the ones taking most of the orbs had dedicated healers.

The actual HPS I pulled on the fight was about 12k, but when people say HPS I automatically assume EHPS (Effective HPS) because if its overheal then its useless. My EHPS was about 9.4k, and I'm still in mostly ilvl 226 gear (give or take 1 or 2 pieces, excluding the idol)

Anyway, this was my healing breakdown on the fight:

Skill Name Eff. Heal Percent Land Total Healing Over Healing Hits Avg Crits DOT Avg

(+) Rejuvenation(R15) 1,030,249 43.3% 516 1,300,447 20.7% 516 2,520

(+) Wild Growth(R4) 782,867 32.9% 1112 909,189 13.8% 1112 817

(+) Regrowth(R12) 250,818 10.5% 21 326,746 23.2% 10 5,337 52.3% 139 1,324

(+) Tranquility 105,017 4.4% 24 170,152 38.2% 24 7,089

(+) Nourish(R1) 101,999 4.2% 17 134,823 24.3% 11 6,513 35.2%

(+) Swiftmend 46,059 1.9% 5 60,827 24.2% 4 11,059 20%

I used Regrowth a lot more on this fight because of the extra hot it gave, in other fights though the extra hot is usally pure overheal and nourish would have been better.

(Yes tranquility, we got tired of select players failing and ended up using the door strat, thats not there for most fights though)

[Deleted]

fair enough it just looks like you take on a different method of healing. Again I would never suggest regrowth being more usefull as a direct heal then nourish and as a quick heal it's not as effective as SM but if that's how you heal I'm not going to tell you anything different , I think it just depends on how you think of things, I like to use SM a lot more due to it's short CD . When innervate was 6mins I never used it on myself and saved it for people who needed it more (as it was a huge gain but also a once per fight tool nearly) now that it's 3 minutes i find myself popping it a bit more on myself just due to it's usefulness now. I guess it all depends on your style, I still think you would notice a bigger difference if you were to cut back on regrowth a bit and use more nourish's and SM's but then it's your choice to heal whatever way you want (and yes I was talking EHPS) I put out a bit more HPS but then my gear is mostly 245 / 245 heroic.

[axio]

Yeah, I'm not saying regrowth should be used more or anything. In fact, that is really the only fight that I use it on more than just the tank... mainly because most of my nourish is usually sniped from me by priests/shamans/pallies. Regrowth at least leaves a hot that will most likely heal for the full amount on that fight, which is usually over 9k. So with Regrowth I get 5-6k direct heal, and then 9k over 27 seconds, which is ~14k healing for 719 mana. Nourish on the other hand (still talking in the valks fight) does 5-8k (without a hot) and costs 559 mana. Even if there was a hot on the target, nourish would do 6-11k... with most probably ending up as overhealing. So the EHPS of Regrowth in a fight like that seems higher to me than Nourish, not to mention it adds a hot that I could swiftmend if needed (or even use to buff nourish, I wouldn't recast regrowth if the hot from it was still at more than 3 sec left).

of course this has nothing to do with the topic x.x, but yeah.

On Topic:
Is this glyph available on the PTR yet?

[procne]

i wasnt saying that regrowth is better direct heal than swiftmend. i was merely answering to your arguments saying swiftmend has better hps. in situation when you can expect regrowth hot to do minimal overhealing (ie twins heroic) regrowth has better hps.

now, i also see we have different understanding of hps. there are actually 2 ways to look at it.

one way, which i used, is overall healing done per time spent casting. from this point of view rejuvenation has like 15-18k hps if it has 1 sec global cd and ticks for 2.5k-3k. regrowth for me has 13k hps (1.5 sec cast time, 7k direct heal averaging with crit, 13k hot). swiftmend has around 11k hps (1.2 sec global cd, 14k healing averaging with crit).

other way to look at it is: healing done on a target by a spell over its duration. its hard to talk about hps for swiftmend this way but for hots it would be around 1k hps for rejuv and 600-700 hps for regrowth.

im not using regrowth for direct healing much. usually only on fights with continuous dmg on raid so the hot becomes useful. in other situations its nourish or swiftmend in emergencies.

going back to twin valkyr's - it depends also on your strategy. usually we have 4 warlock soakers with demo spec. they take little damage from orbs and they usually can take 3-4 hits before dying. i try to save SM for when they go below 40% and pop regrowth when they go around 50%-60% for additional hot + some direct heal. if i use nourish on them my overall hps goes a bit lower and i might have to heal them again in few secs because they didnt have additional hot.

yes, player not using his cooldowns is bad player. but i could say the same thing about player who uses cooldowns when normal spells would suffice.

[Saeadame]

Ahaha.... So I'm going to talk on topic and maybe a little off topic...

Glyph of Rapid Rej. looks pretty nice for me... (and I think I might get mocked >>;

Regrowth is my main heal. For everything. It's my preemptive heal (because it's long and I'm lazy at preemptive healing) and my main heal-heal. I have Glyph of Regrowth, and as a result Regrowth is pretty much the best "spot heal" for me. If I've already got a regrowth on them (which I often do) then I get a nice 20% extra, which is fun fun. I don't really have mana problems despite how mana-inefficient this method may be.

Anyway, how this relates to this glyph... since I usually throw on Reg first, then I could make Rej my mini-heal for small aoe things. Instant cast time means I can throw it on the whole raid quicker than even Nourish (even if it doesn't heal for as much?).

On the subject of SM & GoSM... I have to say I realise that I don't use this much. Frankly, there doesn't even seem to be a rhyme or reason to my swiftmending XD; I kind of do it when it feels good. I do actually have GoSM right now, but I'm thinking (as a result of my "use it when it feels good" mentality) of switching it our for the WG glyph or something.

Nourish is an interesting spell that I often forget exists (XD;. I'm trying to change up my rotation to include it, but it's slow going 'cause I'm so attached to Regrowth. The one time I ever used it frequently was when my raid was failing due to massive AoE, and I decided to try the OMG SPAM!NOURISH technique. I ran out of mana like 4 times that fight (luckily there was enough other druids to keep me up w/ innervates & my own Pots) but it worked =D lol. But that was because our DPS was kinda bad.

So yeah... short end: I'll try out this glyph for a while to see how it works, probably in place of either my Nourish or Swiftmend glyph. If may work out, it may not.

What I do want to see: More useful minor glyphs for druids =\. This "what should I choose... useless PvE glyph 1 or useless PvE glyph 2 and glyph of unburdened rebirth...>>;" thing sucks.

[Degrador]

now, i also see we have different understanding of hps. there are actually 2 ways to look at it.

Just thought I'd chime in and say they're actually different measurements, and in fact three have been mentioned in the discussions so far:
1) HPS: Heals per second. Looks at the amount of healing being done over time, which can refer to a particular HoT or generally to overall healing output with multiple spells.
2) HPSC: Heals per second cast. Looks at the amount of healing generated per cast time (including GCD if applicable). This is a measurement of how much theoretical output can be provided with a particular spell.
3) HPM: Heals per mana. A measurement of how mana efficient a spell is.

I realise you may both have understood these, just thought it would be good to clarify to help the discussion (And if you want to talk about one or another it might be good to use the appropriate acronym as above ).

[Deleted]

Just thought I'd chime in and say they're actually different measurements, and in fact three have been mentioned in the discussions so far:
1) HPS: Heals per second. Looks at the amount of healing being done over time, which can refer to a particular HoT or generally to overall healing output with multiple spells.
2) HPSC: Heals per second cast. Looks at the amount of healing generated per cast time (including GCD if applicable). This is a measurement of how much theoretical output can be provided with a particular spell.
3) HPM: Heals per mana. A measurement of how mana efficient a spell is.

I realise you may both have understood these, just thought it would be good to clarify to help the discussion (And if you want to talk about one or another it might be good to use the appropriate acronym as above ).

thx :P

[Onahail]

are you actually serious ? I'm worried about resto druids if you think that ... still struggling on in naxx ??
every healer let alone resto druid realises that you need every GCD you can spare and if something saves me a GCD then it's worth it , it also saves you the mana of casting a NEW rejuv and gives you a few more seconds of not having to cast on that target which means more overall healing ... jesus get a clue.. What druid focus heals a tank in todays raiding enviornemnt ? rejuv and regrwoth are the only things I need to cast on a tank (more in 10 mans) but there's palas that solely heal tanks cause to be frank that's all they can do.. SM is nessessary because it's so fucking good
-it gives a 15k heal to a target
-leaves the hot up afterwards for 2 cases a) it's an AoE damage fight and there's still more damage to take b) anything SM missed.
-It saves you a global cooldown on casting rejuv on the target again
-It saves you the mana in that time of casting another spell (yeh you'll prolly use it later but u don't have to then)
-It let's you move onto another target after a SM and heal them as you still have a hot up.

*Reasons why you'd want another glyph
-You love HT and want that glyph - you're an idiot reRoll to another class HT is shit.
-You love LB and want that glyph - you're an idiot reRoll to another class LB rolling is shit and wasted now.
-You love RG and want that glyph - read above and add in RG glyph isn't optimal now-a-days.


So yeah... a) what would you replace it with and b) it's actually an amazing glyph that saves you a lot so yes... it should be pretty mandatory in fact if a resto druid applied to my guild without it saying it wasn't nessessary I'd tell him to get the fuck back to TBC. All of this is including the fact that Glyph of WG and Glyph of Nourish are also mandatory... hence those being the 3 glyphs that resto druids will use...

On a topic note , GoRR doesn't sound like fun at all , I don't really have a glyph spot for it and I'm not really that interested on making my rejuv cast any faster , I can't see how this is a benefit... except maybe to a tank but tank damage is so spikey that it might not be on the right intervals...

Druids are actually pretty fuckin good tank healers now.

But on the other hand if you can't heal both the tank and the raid, you're bad. Actually to point out, a druid on strictly raid healing, will generally do crap for HPS and overall healing especially if there's a holy priest and/or resto shaman doing raid as well. I actually focus mainly on tank, keeping him fully hotted, using WG whenever its up and popping rejuvs on people in the raid. Nourish is generally my 1st or 2nd top heal along with rejuv or WG and lifebloom.

The fact that we have running hots is what makes us amazing for tank healing. Whenever the tank is hit our hots top them off, combine that with Nourish spamming to proc living seed. If you know what you're doing you're easily looking at 4k+ HPS in almost any 10 man, higher in 25s.


Edit: And keeping to the original topic of the thread. Glyph of Rapid Rejuvination does indeed lower the duration. If anything it'll just be more a pain in the ass then not. Having to refresh them more often is not only annoying but also is bad on mana.

[Deleted]

If you enjoyed this discussion there's also a similar post which is stickied and if you read that most of the druids there and most other druids at top end 'blanket rejuvs' on the raid and stick a few other heals where it's needed keeping WG always off CD. Onahail I never stated we were bad tank healers in fact there are no classes which are 'bad' tank healers any healer can do any role some are just better suited then others. Pala's atm are best suited for tank healing.

[Onahail]

If you enjoyed this discussion there's also a similar post which is stickied and if you read that most of the druids there and most other druids at top end 'blanket rejuvs' on the raid and stick a few other heals where it's needed keeping WG always off CD. Onahail I never stated we were bad tank healers in fact there are no classes which are 'bad' tank healers any healer can do any role some are just better suited then others. Pala's atm are best suited for tank healing.

Sorry to disagree but...

Holy priests are horrible tank healers. Just sayin. lol

[Myzou]

WTB Glyph of Tranquility

" Your Tranquility spell now heals all raid members within a 15 yard radius of the caster"

WTB Divine Hymn Glyph

"Your Divine Hymn now heals 10 targets every 2 seconds for 8 seconds. Maximum of 40 targets." :P

Anyway, I think it's like Hymn of Hope, etc. You do the same healing, just over a shorter period.

[Onahail]

WTB Divine Hymn Glyph

"Your Divine Hymn now heals 10 targets every 2 seconds for 8 seconds. Maximum of 40 targets." :P

Anyway, I think it's like Hymn of Hope, etc. You do the same healing, just over a shorter period.

Stop singing damnit! You should be healing people not singing bible songs.

[Deleted]

Sorry to disagree but...

Holy priests are horrible tank healers. Just sayin. lol

They are but they still CAN do it. Hence why there are healing roles and why you don't put a holy pala on raid healing and a holy priest on tank healing when they are both in the raid. Get my point ? While druids are god for tank healing pala's are godly so they should be doing it and letting us blanket the raid

[Onahail]

They are but they still CAN do it. Hence why there are healing roles and why you don't put a holy pala on raid healing and a holy priest on tank healing when they are both in the raid. Get my point ? While druids are god for tank healing pala's are godly so they should be doing it and letting us blanket the raid

Pfft. I can heal the tank and blanket the raid. Eff da pallies

[Deleted]

Pfft. I can heal the tank and blanket the raid. Eff da pallies

haha so can I , but in ToTGC it can be a bit stressful.

[Gordonform]

I can main tank heal and throw hots on the raid while doing it. sure you waste a couple GCD but if you tank gets low you can always use nourish and get the tank back all the way up with a 16k nourish plus your hots rolling. I never run close to oom so main tank healing plus raid healing is what i do to help out cuz we run with less healers and more dps to keep things going because our healers are good

[Architect]

I actually focus mainly on tank, keeping him fully hotted, using WG whenever its up and popping rejuvs on people in the raid. Nourish is generally my 1st or 2nd top heal along with rejuv or WG and lifebloom.

[/quote]

Nourish should never be your 1st or 2nd highest heal in your charts, those two spots are reserved for WG and Rejuv. Also why is LB one of your top heals?