The Icecrown Hardmode Switch...

[Deleted]

Right. So they're dropping Heroic mode raids then?

And even without heroic raid, that's still 4 total difficulties there; 10-man normal, 10-man hard, 25-man normal, 25-man hard.

Edit: The key word here is "total", I'm not saying "just before the fight you have an option to switch him over to x different difficulties".

[Oystersauce]

Right. So they're dropping Heroic mode raids then?

And even without heroic raid, that's still 4 total difficulties there; 10-man normal, 10-man hard, 25-man normal, 25-man hard.

Edit: The key word here is "total", I'm not saying "just before the fight you have an option to switch him over to x different difficulties".

/tar din
/pat

[Deleted]

Ok, I've found the blue post, and they're abolishing Heroic modes for 10 and 25 man dungeons. Thanks for helping clear that up, and we're now back to only 4 total difficulties (not including any separate hard mode toggles such as 3 drake OS).

[Architect]

I quit about 2 months ago after zero yogg and I was happy with the hardmode mechanics of Ulduar. I came back last week mostly leveling a new main for ICC/Cata but have done all the ToC raids and the hard mode system makes me just want to quit again lol. I'm happy to see the changes they're making to hardmodes for ICC and will keep playing at least to see how it is

[Johvendi]

From 10-man guild pov, I dont like this. How TotC worked was much better.

Do normal mode first, get some emblems, some gear. Then spend the rest of the raiddays working on heroic.

I think the people that dont like the TotC way are all from 25man guilds. Cause apparently they are forced to do 10mans aswell and not just the heroic version but also the normal version.

The way Uld works and how ICC will work sucks, as u have to chose between gearing up and going for the hard mode again. But you wont hear 25man complaining about that as they have 10man to gear up in.

WTB Normal and Heroic versions and to prevent any complaining about having to do the same boss 4x, put 10 & 25man on the same lockout. Well not really, would limit the possibilities for 'smaller' 25man guilds (cant go 2 groups of totc 10 when they lack a few people) so dont want them to lose the option but dammit, stop complaining about having to do them 4x then

Bit more on topic: an option in your ui, dont kill a certain mob, press a big red button,... It's all the same anyway imo. Aslong as the encounters are a bit more different and not just harder hitting, I'm game.

[Mithip]

From 10-man guild pov, I dont like this. How TotC worked was much better.

Do normal mode first, get some emblems, some gear. Then spend the rest of the raiddays working on heroic.

I think the people that dont like the TotC way are all from 25man guilds. Cause apparently they are forced to do 10mans aswell and not just the heroic version but also the normal version.

The way Uld works and how ICC will work sucks, as u have to chose between gearing up and going for the hard mode again. But you wont hear 25man complaining about that as they have 10man to gear up in.

WTB Normal and Heroic versions and to prevent any complaining about having to do the same boss 4x, put 10 & 25man on the same lockout. Well not really, would limit the possibilities for 'smaller' 25man guilds (cant go 2 groups of totc 10 when they lack a few people) so dont want them to lose the option but dammit, stop complaining about having to do them 4x then

Bit more on topic: an option in your ui, dont kill a certain mob, press a big red button,... It's all the same anyway imo. Aslong as the encounters are a bit more different and not just harder hitting, I'm game.

Yeah because doing 12bosses twice (heroic and normal) on 10man and normal and heroic on 25 (plus trash) takes EXACTLY the same time than TotC/GC.

The Ulduar way is alot better for raids when there is alot of bosses, which ICC will have.

[Vongimi]

Ok, I've found the blue post, and they're abolishing Heroic modes for 10 and 25 man dungeons. Thanks for helping clear that up, and we're now back to only 4 total difficulties (not including any separate hard mode toggles such as 3 drake OS).

Heroic = Hard mode. Heroic was simply the way TotC dealt with hard modes. Just because it wasnt called "Hard Mode" doesnt mean that is exactly what it was. They were the same concept. So no, they are not abolishing heroic modes, they are simply doing them a different way, closer to the way ulduar dealt with them.

Imo, you cant do any hardmodes till you have cleared the instance on normal.

[Johvendi]

Yeah because doing 12bosses twice (heroic and normal) on 10man and normal and heroic on 25 (plus trash) takes EXACTLY the same time than TotC/GC.

The Ulduar way is alot better for raids when there is alot of bosses, which ICC will have.

You got a point there.

I think the real reason for this change isnt people complaining about having to kill everything 4x (as they probably wouldnt be able to) but cause there simply wont be hardmodes for every boss (unless I missed the blue on this).

But no matter how many bosses there are, eventually ull be able to clear 'em in 1 night or faster and then ud have the rest of ur raiddays to go for hardmodes. I'd still prefere that to having to make the decission to go or for gearing up and killing stuff or not gearing up and wiping loads though. The only way I can see the normal/heroic mode being inferior to the switch is if ur planning/hoping on doing 10 & 25man versions of a raid.

Personally for ICC with switch, I think I'll go with 2 normal full clears (without extending) first than swap over to 1 night per hardmode, i.e. if we cant kill it in a full night, skip it this week and move on to the next boss. And use the option to extend raidlockouts to not miss Arthas kills like we had to miss YS kills.

[Szilia]

Blizzard is just playing around with the hardmode concept. They've gone some way since OS+3 and I think they are just about there now.
I liked Ulduar a lot, some of the hardmodes were very nicely done and the fact that you could choose which bosses you wanted to kill hardmodes worked quite well imo.
ToC did it well with the ilvl on gear imo and the fact that all bosses has hardmodes. The separate lockouts is just a but over the top tbh, but its acceptable since the instance is so damn short - and easy on normal.

Seems like they are merging the best parts for ICC. Only 2 lockouts, easy switch between normal and hardmode (without all the different ways Ulduar used)(and with this ui switch, I guess there'll be hardmodes on all bosses, which makes sense since hardmodes are fairly popular), ilvl distribution like in ToC and more bosses like in Ulduar.

I'm really looking forward to 3.3 atm